OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

[Byron Bitz]

Is there really a player that went after Thomson in 2019 in the first round that moves any sort of needle for us? There weren’t a ton of options. I don’t think a serviceable NHL dman is necessarily a bad pick either for JBD.

You could do this with every team in the league. Outside of 2021 Ottawa’s drafting is the least of our issues.

They needed to hit on one of those picks. Expecting both of them to pan out might be unfair to our scouts but I don’t think it’s too much to ask of them to hit on atleast one of the JBD/Thomson picks. Both of them busting was a gut punch to the rebuild.

 

[PlayOn]

They needed to hit on one of those picks. Expecting both of them to pan out might be unfair to our scouts but I don’t think it’s too much to ask of them to hit on atleast one of the JBD/Thomson picks. Both of them busting was a gut punch to the rebuild.

I really don’t get watching this team and thinking we need more young talent. We certainly don’t need any middle six forwards we passed on.

An actual gut punch to the rebuild is that in Dorion’s entire tenure he acquired only one top 4 dman that stuck in Zub. He traded DeMelo for whatever reason and then acquired Chychrun who hasn’t been a fit at all.

Tampa drafted Hedman but they made smart trades for McDonagh, Cernak and Sergachev to round out their defence. Colorado made a great trade to acquire Toews, and other guys like Manson and Girard, now this year Walker. Where are these teams that draft their entire defensive cores? We have Chabot and Sanderson, and Kleven will probably be a good NHLer. They absolutely could’ve done a better job drafting dmen at the start of this rebuild but gut punch is a bit of an overstatement.

 

[Loach]

I really don’t get watching this team and thinking we need more young talent. We certainly don’t need any middle six forwards we passed on.

An actual gut punch to the rebuild is that in Dorion’s entire tenure he acquired only one top 4 dman that stuck in Zub. He traded DeMelo for whatever reason and then acquired Chychrun who hasn’t been a fit at all.

Tampa drafted Hedman but they made smart trades for McDonagh, Cernak and Sergachev to round out their defence. Colorado made a great trade to acquire Toews, and other guys like Manson and Girard, now this year Walker. Where are these teams that draft their entire defensive cores? We have Chabot and Sanderson, and Kleven will probably be a good NHLer. They absolutely could’ve done a better job drafting dmen at the start of this rebuild but gut punch is a bit of an overstatement.

That's why our defence and forward depth is so good right? Why we have cap flexibility because of good players on entry level contracts or bridges? That's why we have a good farm team with assets to trade? Dorion wasted draft capital by drafting poorly or trading the picks away for nothing. He is a bad GM and the farther we get from his tenure, the clearer it gets that he is one of the all time worst.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

And no, Ceci was not a cap dump, he was a RFA and could have walked for nothing, but then later on he let Duclair walk for nothing lol. It's just incredible how bad Dorion was.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but his final contract, if I seem to remember, was after Ceci filed for Arbitration… but think they settled before actually going to arbitration…… on a one year contract, with Ceci still being a RFA after that contract…… so don’t know how he would have been able to “walk for nothing” while still being a RFA…. Wouldn’t the Senators own his rights and the two sides must come to an agreement on a new contract?

 

[Karterthadon]

I don't think the rebuild was a total failure, Stutzle & Tkachuk have become superstars in the NHL & are probably Ottawa's most consistent players game in & game out.

If these two are superstars, how
do we classify the Kucherov's, McDavid's and Matthews of this league? Ultra super duper mega stars?

This is what I mean by overrating the players on this team, these guys are good but tons of teams in this league have players every bit as good as Brady and Stutzle.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

If these two are superstars, how
do we classify the Kucherov's, McDavid's and Matthews of this league? Ultra super duper mega stars?

This is what I mean by overrating the players on this team, these guys are good but tons of teams in this league have players every bit as good as Brady and Stutzle.

In no way is Brady and Stu superstars. Not right now anyways.

 

[Micklebot]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but his final contract, if I seem to remember, was after Ceci filed for Arbitration… but think they settled before actually going to arbitration…… on a one year contract, with Ceci still being a RFA after that contract…… so don’t know how he would have been able to “walk for nothing” while still being a RFA…. Wouldn’t the Senators own his rights and the two sides must come to an agreement on a new contract?

I think he means Ottawa could have walked away, some people at the time were advocating just not qualifying Ceci.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I mean they talk the talk but they certainly so not walk the walk. They're out there for a leisurely skate it's been 1 full seasons of it going into 2 now. The talent is there but the work ethic, compete and commitment is clearly not. It's obvious the eye test backs it up. The stats back it up. They need a new voice.

They still need a new voice, J Martins’s voice is only going to be around for another 15 or 16 games… they players know this and know there will be little or no repercussions until a the new voice is backed with a three year contract, and brought in to clean up the DJS & JM mess.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I think he means Ottawa could have walked away, some people at the time were advocating just not qualifying Ceci.

Thinking that filing for arbitration the year before set in motion the Parting of ways….

 

[PlayOn]

That's why our defence and forward depth is so good right? Why we have cap flexibility because of good players on entry level contracts or bridges? That's why we have a good farm team with assets to trade? Dorion wasted draft capital by drafting poorly or trading the picks away for nothing. He is a bad GM and the farther we get from his tenure, the clearer it gets that he is one of the all time worst.

Sanderson is just now wrapping up his ELC. Greig is still on it. In the next 1-2 years, we likely have Ostapchuk, Kleven and Sogaard who will be on their entry level contracts. By the time we need more, in 3-4 years, Staios will have had time to address the pipeline.

The conversation of how many picks we traded has nothing to do with the quality of the picks we actually made. And Dorion’s cap management isn’t bad because of our drafting, it’s bad because he filled the roster with bad players he had to buy out and then players that weren’t a fit.

There are a total of 3 players Dorion traded/signed for (outside of selling off players during the rebuild) that we’d miss if we didn’t have: Giroux, Zub, Joseph. That’s the problem, not the drafting.

 

[Adrianopolous]

We need a new coach by May so that he can set the culture for an entire summer prior to camp

 

[umma gumma]

They still need a new voice, J Martins’s voice is only going to be around for another 15 or 16 games… they players know this and know there will be little or no repercussions until a the new voice is backed with a three year contract, and brought in to clean up the DJS & JM mess.

lol whatever. You and your gas lighting.

 

[Loach]

Sanderson is just now wrapping up his ELC. Greig is still on it. In the next 1-2 years, we likely have Ostapchuk, Kleven and Sogaard who will be on their entry level contracts. By the time we need more, in 3-4 years, Staios will have had time to address the pipeline.

The conversation of how many picks we traded has nothing to do with the quality of the picks we actually made. And Dorion’s cap management isn’t bad because of our drafting, it’s bad because he filled the roster with bad players he had to buy out and then players that weren’t a fit.

There are a total of 3 players Dorion traded/signed for (outside of selling off players during the rebuild) that we’d miss if we didn’t have: Giroux, Zub, Joseph. That’s the problem, not the drafting.

What?

 

[Xspyrit]

lol whatever. You and your gas lighting.

Anyone trying to blame Staios, Andlauer or Jacques Martin for the team results this season is either really dumb or a complete troll.

 

[bicboi64]

Anyone trying to blame Staios, Andlauer or Jacques Martin for the team results this season is either really dumb or a complete troll.

Although I get why they decided not to, I absolutely "blame" Staios and Andlauer for not getting rid of Dorion and DJ immediately. I get the whole, "wait and see", don't rush anything, but how much time was needed to verify whatever they may have thought about our existing management? JM can't really be blamed for much. He's just trying to undo as much of the damage as he can at 71.

 

[Tuna99]

Although I get why they decided not to, I absolutely "blame" Staios and Andlauer for not getting rid of Dorion and DJ immediately. I get the whole, "wait and see", don't rush anything, but how much time was needed to verify whatever they may have thought about our existing management? JM can't really be blamed for much. He's just trying to undo as much of the damage as he can at 71.

Just think in Andlauers first 12 games with Dorion before he got fired:

- Started the season with 19 players because they had no Cap space
- Pinto sidelined because they can’t afford him
- lose a 1st round pick
- Pinto suspended 41 games
- your FA goalie is a bust

Yes he should of been fired the moment Andlauer bought the team but you almost it had to keep Dorion around because there was so much shit happening Dorion war the only guy who could explain what a shit show it was

 

[Karterthadon]

We need a new coach by May so that he can set the culture for an entire summer prior to camp

This.

Hiring an interim coach was a incredibly dumb decision. A new coach next year means another reset and starting from scratch again. The new coach should be behind the bench right now to assess what he has and what he wants for next year (IE who needs to get the f out of there).

 

[Adrianopolous]

Bring Guy back

 

[TonySoprano11]

Bring Guy back

I would be on board with this.

 

[Micklebot]

Although I get why they decided not to, I absolutely "blame" Staios and Andlauer for not getting rid of Dorion and DJ immediately. I get the whole, "wait and see", don't rush anything, but how much time was needed to verify whatever they may have thought about our existing management? JM can't really be blamed for much. He's just trying to undo as much of the damage as he can at 71.

So, assuming we got rid of DJ to start the season, who comes in? I think Gallant was one of the only realistically available options, I guess Roy though I'm not a fan

Personally, I like the idea of waiting for a greater selection to become available and doing an in depth hiring process. The interviews with top candidates can provide insight in how others view the roster and how to best utilize the pieces you have even if it comes from rejected candidates.

I'm still holding out hope Carolina gets bounced in the first round and parts ways with Brindamour, would love for him to be the next coach and that couldn't happen if we fired DJ in the offseason and replaced him already.

 

[Micklebot]

This.

Hiring an interim coach was a incredibly dumb decision. A new coach next year means another reset and starting from scratch again. The new coach should be behind the bench right now to assess what he has and what he wants for next year (IE who needs to get the f out of there).

When we hired MacLean, we saw mediate results,

When we stuck with Cameron after firing MacLean, the next season was a bust despite him being in place to finish the prior yr and having all offseason to prepare

When we hired Boucher in the offseason, we had immediate success.

When the canes fired Peter's and hired Brindamour in the offseason, they had immediate success

When the Rangers fired Quinn and hired Gallant in the offseason, they had immediate success.

They then fired Gallant in the offseason and are having immediate success with Laviolette



Why do people think coaches can't assess and correct issues if they are hired in the offseason?

 

[Tuna99]

This.

Hiring an interim coach was a incredibly dumb decision. A new coach next year means another reset and starting from scratch again. The new coach should be behind the bench right now to assess what he has and what he wants for next year (IE who needs to get the f out of there).

good of an interim coach is the responsiloty and the focus is entirely on the players, we know Jacques martin can coach in this market and he’s telling us we don’t have the right players to win - they aren’t learning fast enough, they repeat mistakes and are inconsistent.

if we hired a new coach full time he would have been the focus for change and culture and not the players. it’s good the focus is on the players because its clear now the core needs major changes and the love affair with this group of players is over

 

[Relapsing]

Anyone trying to blame Staios, Andlauer or Jacques Martin for the team results this season is either really dumb or a complete troll.

It can be both!

 

[bicboi64]

So, assuming we got rid of DJ to start the season, who comes in? I think Gallant was one of the only realistically available options, I guess Roy though I'm not a fan

Personally, I like the idea of waiting for a greater selection to become available and doing an in depth hiring process. The interviews with top candidates can provide insight in how others view the roster and how to best utilize the pieces you have even if it comes from rejected candidates.

I'm still holding out hope Carolina gets bounced in the first round and parts ways with Brindamour, would love for him to be the next coach and that couldn't happen if we fired DJ in the offseason and replaced him already.

I'd have been good as anyone as interim (even Gallant, even though the dude is notorious for limiting younger guys playing time).

You keep saying you hope Carolina get's bounced and parts ways with Brindamour. Don't do that, don't give me hope.

 

[Cosmix]

Why does everyone except Giroux play worse once they get here, and magically get better once they leave?

It's the roster and the coaching.