F Charlie Stramel - Michigan State University, NCAA (2023, 21st, MIN)

[57special]

Don't see how that's beneficial, the problem isn't the coach or the usage despite what you may read in this thread from some people, the problem is Stramel. And Madison is 3.5 hours from St. Paul, what would being closer accomplish?

less drinking?

 

[AKL]

less drinking?

Underage drinking? At our institutions of higher learning? Well I never

 

[Kshahdoo]

At least Minnesota was lucky with Yurov...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Of the 10 forwards on Wisconsin outproducing Stramel, exactly 1 is a "super senior" brought over from Mankato. The others are either normal aged college players brought over from Mankato (2 I think), or players that were playing at Wisconsin before the new coach got there (the remaining 7).

If he was better, he'd play more, like the 19 year old currently leading the team in scoring.

2002’s are seniors in college. Everyone older than that is a super senior. There are 5 older than 2002 for the forwards. 4 are 2002’s, so 9/15 forwards on the team are seniors or super seniors.

Current top six has players that turn 25, 24, 23 over the next couple of weeks, and another who is merely only 21 and turns 22 in a few months. I don’t know how that can not be viewed as stuffing your lineup with old guys who either don’t belong in college or should be in their very last year of eligibility at the expense of young guys.

Detroit has a second round pick at Wisconsin who doesn’t even make the lineup very much because old guys are taking up a spot over him also.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If Stramel can’t beat out low ceiling 02s in college how do you expect him to beat out higher quality 99s in the AHL?

 

[MTU34]

Wisconsin has 4 forwards born in either 2004 or 2005.

Amongst Mike Hastings and his merry group of “super seniors”, three of those younger players have managed to carve out a significant role and be quality contributors to one of the best teams in the country.

I’ll let you guys guess which one hasn’t

 

[WarriorofTime]

Wisconsin is 58/64 in NCAA D1 hockey in terms of average age.

 

[MNRube]

If Stramel can’t beat out low ceiling 02s in college how do you expect him to beat out higher quality 99s in the AHL?

Seems like his issue is more of a confidence problem. Big guys also develop slower usually. But your point is still very valid

 

[BagHead]

I'm hoping that this may end up being one of those situations where production is a bit of a liar. I look at a guy like Brandon Duhaime, who never had great offense anywhere (his 3rd season at Providence was good, but not outstanding), but became an NHL regular because he had the needed skills for a defined role he could slot into. Specifically, strong forechecking ability and defensive awareness.

If Stramel can be a good forechecker, a net-front agitator, and can be reliable defensively, I think he'll be an NHLer. He may not be a scoring NHLer if that happens, but he'll at least be a player. Of course, you want your team to aim higher with 1st round picks, but getting a serviceable NHLer out of the late 1st round is about all you can hope for in a normal year.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm hoping that this may end up being one of those situations where production is a bit of a liar. I look at a guy like Brandon Duhaime, who never had great offense anywhere (his 3rd season at Providence was good, but not outstanding), but became an NHL regular because he had the needed skills for a defined role he could slot into. Specifically, strong forechecking ability and defensive awareness.

If Stramel can be a good forechecker, a net-front agitator, and can be reliable defensively, I think he'll be an NHLer. He may not be a scoring NHLer if that happens, but he'll at least be a player. Of course, you want your team to aim higher with 1st round picks, but getting a serviceable NHLer out of the late 1st round is about all you can hope for in a normal year.

Yea and no.

A player that grinds out 300 nhl games playing 10 minutes a night for four different teams over the course of a decade long period isn’t particularly useful of a pick. You can probably find 500 guys out there in the world to plug in to do that at a given moment in time.

Now a contributing depth player during cost and team controlled RFA years… that is a good value. So we will see.

 

[57special]

I'm hoping that this may end up being one of those situations where production is a bit of a liar. I look at a guy like Brandon Duhaime, who never had great offense anywhere (his 3rd season at Providence was good, but not outstanding), but became an NHL regular because he had the needed skills for a defined role he could slot into. Specifically, strong forechecking ability and defensive awareness.

If Stramel can be a good forechecker, a net-front agitator, and can be reliable defensively, I think he'll be an AHL'er. He may not be a scoring NHLer if that happens, but he'll at least be a player. Of course, you want your team to aim higher with 1st round picks, but getting a serviceable NHLer out of the late 1st round is about all you can hope for in a normal year.

Fixed.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

2002’s are seniors in college. Everyone older than that is a super senior. There are 5 older than 2002 for the forwards. 4 are 2002’s, so 9/15 forwards on the team are seniors or super seniors.

Current top six has players that turn 25, 24, 23 over the next couple of weeks, and another who is merely only 21 and turns 22 in a few months. I don’t know how that can not be viewed as stuffing your lineup with old guys who either don’t belong in college or should be in their very last year of eligibility at the expense of young guys.

Detroit has a second round pick at Wisconsin who doesn’t even make the lineup very much because old guys are taking up a spot over him also.

Ok so 5 forwards older than 2002:
De St. Phalle... playing his 4th season at Wisconsin. So, his being on the team pre-dates the new coach.
Lindmark... playing his 5th season at Wisconsin. Pre-dates the new coach.
Silye... came from Mankato. Congrats, we found one.
Stange... playing his 4th season at Wisconsin, Pre-dates the new coach.
Tassy... also came from Mankato.

So, only 2 of the 5 "super seniors" are new coach related.

Shall we do the 2002's? I think so:
Bantle... playing his 3rd season at Wisconsin. Pre-dates the new coach.
Fitzgerald... came from Mankato. We found a 3rd.
Horbach... playing his 2nd season at Wisconsin. Pre-dates the new coach.

1 out of 3.

And by the way, my own favorite college team (Minnesota) currently has 8 forwards that are 2001 born or later. More than Wisconsin has. Didn't stop Oliver Moore for getting top 6 playing time, just like it hasn't stopped Cruz Lucius from getting the same.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Cruz Lucius >>> Charlie Stramel

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And by the way, my own favorite college team (Minnesota) currently has 8 forwards that are 2001 born or later. More than Wisconsin has. Didn't stop Oliver Moore for getting top 6 playing time, just like it hasn't stopped Cruz Lucius from getting the same.

Time will tell.

My opinion is that circumstantial appeals to authority figures are pretty bogus, especially when it's a first round pick. They should be given every opportunity to prove whether they are good or not. We're not talking about a 7th round pick who wasn't given a chance.

When players drafted that high don't get that opportunity to show what they can do at a level below pro hockey, that alone should be condemned. I cannot back an argument of "well these players with no pro future actually deserve it more" for spurious reasons (whatever they are). It's simply not very believable.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Time will tell.

My opinion is that circumstantial appeals to authority figures are pretty bogus, especially when it's a first round pick. They should be given every opportunity to prove whether they are good or not. We're not talking about a 7th round pick who wasn't given a chance.

When players drafted that high don't get that opportunity to show what they can do at a level below pro hockey, that alone should be condemned. I cannot back an argument of "well these players with no pro future actually deserve it more" for spurious reasons (whatever they are). It's simply not very believable.

Screw merit, am I right? Ice time should be awarded based on draft position. Winning team, good culture? Nah, eff that, how you were judged at 18 should control everything. Went unnoticed, got better later? Doesn't matter. Coaches have an OBLIGATION to NHL teams to play their poorly made draft selections first line ice time for the entire season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Time will tell.

My opinion is that circumstantial appeals to authority figures are pretty bogus, especially when it's a first round pick. They should be given every opportunity to prove whether they are good or not. We're not talking about a 7th round pick who wasn't given a chance.

When players drafted that high don't get that opportunity to show what they can do at a level below pro hockey, that alone should be condemned. I cannot back an argument of "well these players with no pro future actually deserve it more" for spurious reasons (whatever they are). It's simply not very believable.

My general feeling is that if Stramel was practicing and playing like a 1st round pick, he would be. It's not like he was starting from the greatest place either. If he had Brindley's draft year stats and was put on the 4th line because Hastings has some vendetta against young players, then you might have a point.

It's not the Wisconsin head coach's problem that the Minnesota Wild made a questionable draft selection.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Looking back, I'm not sure he ever had the skill. As a 15 year old at Rosemount he was 5th on his team in scoring with 18 points in 23 games, then he went to the USNTDP and never once put up over a point per game like most good players who come from that program do.

For comparison sake, Hudson Fasching, as a freshman, led his team with 42 points in 31 games, and came back with 50 points in 28 games as a sophomore, went to the USNTDP, didn't put up a point per game, but still produced much better at the NCAA level than Stramel, and is now a tweener.

I don't know where it went wrong if it was ever right. Still just pretty convinced this is Guerin being enamored with size more than anything. He saw Rossi last year, overreacted, gave Gaudreau a 5 year contract, and drafted Stramel, thinking either of those were the answer.

He said don’t let history repeat itself and over corrected lol

 

[ryan callahan]

Time will tell.

My opinion is that circumstantial appeals to authority figures are pretty bogus, especially when it's a first round pick. They should be given every opportunity to prove whether they are good or not. We're not talking about a 7th round pick who wasn't given a chance.

When players drafted that high don't get that opportunity to show what they can do at a level below pro hockey, that alone should be condemned. I cannot back an argument of "well these players with no pro future actually deserve it more" for spurious reasons (whatever they are). It's simply not very believable.

dawg are you Stramel's mom? Relax bro he's not an offensive player and shouldn't be force fed minutes just to prove your narrative. And that narrative has been disproven time and time as the top players on Wisconsin are actually relatively young. Plus Whitelaw (younger than Stramel) has been performing way better than Stramel, so I don't know why you are thinking everyone is out to get your puppy.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

I don’t put that kind of trust in coaches. They are often quite stupid and make bad decisions, but I suspect you are right on the motives for why he barely plays.

Anyway, I think the point is we need to see how he does when he gets a chance to play. He’s had success elsewhere before Wisconsin, and even during the Wisconsin nightmare with the USA World Juniors team last year. No player would have good numbers if they were playing as little as he does.

You’re right. The #4th ranked team in the nation is making bad decisions. Yupp that sounds plausible. Nothing wrong with that logic.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

At this point it's beneficial for everyone if he transfers to somewhere like Minnesota or UMD closer to home and the Wild

Is it? If he's part of the number four team in the country, with a highly-respected coaching staff and outstanding facilities isn't that an optimal situation for him to reach his full potential?

The transfer portal has made a mockery of college sports and the concept of the SCHOLAR-athlete.

For all of the focus on his shortcomings, his numbers aren't all that different than they were a year ago.

Getting a world-class education for free (regardless of where he was taken in the NHL Draft) while playing competitive college hockey seems pretty good.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Is it? If he's part of the number four team in the country, with a highly-respected coaching staff and outstanding facilities isn't that an optimal situation for him to reach his full potential?

The transfer portal has made a mockery of college sports and the concept of the SCHOLAR-athlete.

For all of the focus on his shortcomings, his numbers aren't all that different than they were a year ago.

Getting a world-class education for free (regardless of where he was taken in the NHL Draft) while playing competitive college hockey seems pretty good.

That's the problem though: he isn't progressing as he should/needs to as a 1st rounder. Guerin reached so much. Thought someone would take Stramel in the 30s or 40s because he brings physicality and could be a nice playoff player, 21 was too high to take him at.

 

[doomscroll]

Time will tell.

My opinion is that circumstantial appeals to authority figures are pretty bogus, especially when it's a first round pick. They should be given every opportunity to prove whether they are good or not. We're not talking about a 7th round pick who wasn't given a chance.

When players drafted that high don't get that opportunity to show what they can do at a level below pro hockey, that alone should be condemned. I cannot back an argument of "well these players with no pro future actually deserve it more" for spurious reasons (whatever they are). It's simply not very believable.

Wouldn’t it be an appeal to authority to confer playing time based on draft position?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wouldn’t it be an appeal to authority to confer playing time based on draft position?

So we should act like up is down and down is up?

It’s quite logical that the best players are usually the players who are drafted the highest (or at least merely drafted).

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So we should act like up is down and down is up?

It’s quite logical that the best players are usually the players who are drafted the highest (or at least merely drafted).

It's quite logical that the best players are usually the players who the coaching staff plays the most.

Appeal to authority works both ways, Pavel.

 

[GAGLine]

The transfer portal has made a mockery of college sports and the concept of the SCHOLAR-athlete.

I'd argue that it made it a little bit less of a mockery. Why should players be forced to miss a year if they want to transfer? A lot of players go to certain schools because of the coach. Coaches have never had this rule where they couldn't coach for a year if they changed schools. The player commits to the college, the coach leaves, and the player is stuck. How is that fair?

Players have rights too. Imagine you couldn't work for a year if you wanted to switch employers.