Traded Erik Brännström - D - Part III

Burrowsaurus

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Has nothing to do with handedness, it's role. The PP setup they are using needed a net front presence, not a D playing the point, so the choice was between Motte, Joseph, maybe Kastelic or Watson.

If Brannstrom goes on, then Sanderson likely comes off.
I thought we were stacked? We should be having convos like “Kastelic or watson for the pp?”
 
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It is conceivable to run two D on a PP and still have a guy get to the front of the net.

This explanation lacks as much imagination as refusing to put two lefty D on the same unit.

The units should be built around the (best) players that are on it, not just built the exact same way as the unit with Brady.

Two full games without switching stutzle/Norris or giving Brannstrom a second of PP time is quite rigid for a team with so many new faces.

DJ needs to show more willingness to experiment. There are too many possible permutations with this team to get it right the first try.

It’s conceivable, teams do it but we have the luxury of having Giroux/Debrincat on one unit and Stutzle/Norris on the other. Brannstrom or any of the other D aren’t going to take the spot of any of those four players. They aren’t going to play bumper and they aren’t going to play net front/goal line. There’s just not a spot becuase we have better options in the role you would put that extra D.

It’s nothing to do with handiness either, the Stutzle PP has 3 LH shots at the top. Both units aren’t build the same way either.
 

Micklebot

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Telling a guy who’s 5’10 and 190 to be a net front presence is odd.

If DJ wanted a net front presence, Kastelic is a no brainer. Neither him nor Motte have much offensive ability, but at least Kastelic has size that defensemen would have to deal with.
Size isn't really the issue here, you just need someone willing to go to the dirty area and bang away. Gallagher was a great net presence and he's 5'9. Kastelic isn't a no brainer to be on the PP, he a rookie that hasn't really shown much offense to date. Motte showed chemistry with Pinto in preseason and was causing lots of havoc on the for heck winning puck battles. He's not ideal but the rush to put Kastelic in his place just seems reactionary.

It is conceivable to run two D on a PP and still have a guy get to the front of the net.
Sure it is, but then you either need to change the PP system your using or run a Dman off the halfwall. Very few teams run 2 D on the PP these days for a reason,
This explanation lacks as much imagination as refusing to put two lefty D on the same unit.
Sorry if I don't live in a fantasy land
The units should be built around the (best) players that are on it, not just built the exact same way as the unit with Brady.
The units should be based on what works, that means finding the right players for the role they're going to play.
Two full games without switching stutzle/Norris or giving Brannstrom a second of PP time is quite rigid for a team with so many new faces.
Not really, they had a preseason to figure out who was going to play where and when. Knee jerk reactions the second you face adversity don't typically result in positive change. We may end up seeing Motte moved off the PP, but so far he really hasn't been the issue.
DJ needs to show more willingness to experiment. There are too many possible permutations with this team to get it right the first try.
Sure, but he also needs to allow some chemistry to form. Fans seem to be in a panic because we lost two close games, they're looking for a scapegoat and Motte on the PP seems like an easy target. Having Brannstrom in his place doesn't solve the issues we saw the last two games.
I thought we were stacked? We should be having convos like “Kastelic or watson for the pp?”
Well, you have 12 forwards in the lineup and if you want to run 4 forwards and 1D on each unit, that means you have 4 guys left to chose from if you want to change someone out. I basically named all the options (left out Kelly I guess).

I said it before, my preference is Joseph but I suspect the chemistry Motte showed with Pinto got him first crack.
 
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Bevans

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Size isn't really the issue here, you just need someone willing to go to the dirty area and bang away. Gallagher was a great net presence and he's 5'9. Kastelic isn't a no brainer to be on the PP, he a rookie that hasn't really shown much offense to date. Motte showed chemistry with Pinto in preseason and was causing lots of havoc on the for heck winning puck battles. He's not ideal but the rush to put Kastelic in his place just seems reactionary.


Sure it is, but then you either need to change the PP system your using or run a Dman off the halfwall. Very few teams run 2 D on the PP these days for a reason,

Sorry if I don't live in a fantasy land

The units should be based on what works, that means finding the right players for the role they're going to play.

Not really, they had a preseason to figure out who was going to play where and when. Knee jerk reactions the second you face adversity don't typically result in positive change. We may end up seeing Motte moved off the PP, but so far he really hasn't been the issue.

Sure, but he also needs to allow some chemistry to form. Fans seem to be in a panic because we lost two close games, they're looking for a scapegoat and Motte on the PP seems like an easy target. Having Brannstrom in his place doesn't solve the issues we saw the last two games.

Well, you have 12 forwards in the lineup and if you want to run 4 forwards and 1D on each unit, that means you have 4 guys left to chose from if you want to change someone out. I basically named all the options (left out Kelly I guess).

I said it before, my preference is Joseph but I suspect the chemistry Motte showed with Pinto got him first crack.
You wrote alot but at the end of the day this was my point:

"The units should be based on what works, that means finding the right players for the role they're going to play."

So in short, you agree.

That being said, if it is "panicking" to remove a guy from the powerplay who has never scored a ppp in almost 300 games, then yes I am panicking with a heart rate of approximately 40 beats a minute.
 
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DaveMatthew

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Size isn't really the issue here, you just need someone willing to go to the dirty area and bang away. Gallagher was a great net presence and he's 5'9. Kastelic isn't a no brainer to be on the PP, he a rookie that hasn't really shown much offense to date. Motte showed chemistry with Pinto in preseason and was causing lots of havoc on the for heck winning puck battles. He's not ideal but the rush to put Kastelic in his place just seems reactionary.

When you don't have hands or above average offensive skills, size is important. Yes, Gallagher was small, but he had great hands and a a bull in the china shop attitude in front of the net. Motte has neither, and never has. The two simply aren't comparable.

At least Kastelic has something he could contribute. He'd be a pain to move. Motte contributes next to nothing in that role.

Ideally, we'd have neither on there. I'd go with:

Giroux - Tkachuk - DeBrincat
Batherson - Chabot

Stützle - Pinto - Norris
Brannstrom - Sanderson

It's okay to have two D on a PP, especially when they have significantly more offensive ability compared to Motte, Joseph and Kastelic. Both Brannstrom and Sanderson can be shot threats. Brannstrom's shot was one of his top attributes as a prospect (it's unfortunate that he's been unable to use it since coming here), and Sanderson is great at getting it on net.

Also, suggesting to remove Motte off the PP is in no way "fans panicking". It's fans talking about what they think the team should do. That's the point of this forum. We could be a 55 win team and it'd still be fine to talk about, and disagree with, certain line combinations. No one, as far as I can tell, is suggesting that Motte on the PP is the reason we're 0-2.
 
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DaveMatthew

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Why not try it? The way things are trending, Brannstrom could be one of the team's four best defenceman, and they're not going to play him with Sanderson while Sanderson's still settling in.

In home matchups (and we have a 5 game home stand now), we should use Sanderson-Hamonic as the top matchup pairing and Chabot-Brannstrom as more of the offensive duo against the other team's 2nd or 3rd line.
 

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In home matchups (and we have a 5 game home stand now), we should use Sanderson-Hamonic as the top matchup pairing and Chabot-Brannstrom as more of the offensive duo against the other team's 2nd or 3rd line.

I think he is referring to using them in offensive situations, not sure he means as a full time pairing.
 

Ice-Tray

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Who do you take out for Brass? Kastelic?
Yup, easily.

Kastelic is not a PP player at this point, Brass has almost 1000 games of PP experience.

He also played a solid role in making that PP look dangerous in preseason.

Kastelic is a rookie who is working hard to learn the 4c position, I’d take Brass to fill that last spot out of everyone else available for sure.
 

Bevans

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I think he is referring to using them in offensive situations, not sure he means as a full time pairing.
I would be totally fine with going Sanderson for the 4 forward PP unit and pairing Chabot with brannstrom on the other unit.

Sanderson already got more PP time than Chabot last game, so this could be in the cards.
 

Ice-Tray

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It is conceivable to run two D on a PP and still have a guy get to the front of the net.

This explanation lacks as much imagination as refusing to put two lefty D on the same unit.

The units should be built around the (best) players that are on it, not just built the exact same way as the unit with Brady.

Two full games without switching stutzle/Norris or giving Brannstrom a second of PP time is quite rigid for a team with so many new faces.

DJ needs to show more willingness to experiment. There are too many possible permutations with this team to get it right the first try.
The best players on the unit are Giroux on the half wall, Cat as the Sniper in his money spot, Pinto in the bumper spot where he has shown to be really effective. That’s the best players available being put in the best spots to make best use of their talents in the PP. There is no need to overthink that.

That leaves the D man at the top to distribute left and right, which looks to be Sanderson and Bran fighting for that. I like Sanderson right now because he is showing to be a shot threat, which neither bran nor Chabot are.

The last spot is a guy down low who battles behind the net to retrieve missed shots, bang in rebounds and wraparounds, distribute the puck back up top, and make that bumper pass. I think Brass is the next best guy to play that position. you don’t have to be big, but you have to be able to retrieve pucks, and you have to be able to pass the puck at a high level to make the bumper play, or even just to keep the play alive.

It’s not really a spot that a D man would excel at traditionally, and I don’t think Kastelic, nor Motte, are skilled enough for the role.
 
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Micklebot

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You wrote alot but at the end of the day this was my point:

"The units should be based on what works, that means finding the right players for the role they're going to play."

So in short, you agree.

That being said, if it is "panicking" to remove a guy from the powerplay who has never scored a ppp in almost 300 games, then yes I am panicking with a heart rate of approximately 40 beats a minute.
The thing is your panic is misplaced. Instead of watching what worked and what hasn't, you've looked at statlines and assumed Mottemust be the problem, he hasn't. In fact, it's the other PP unit that has struggled the most yet for some reason Motte gets singled out.
When you don't have hands or above average offensive skills, size is important. Yes, Gallagher was small, but he had great hands and a a bull in the china shop attitude in front of the net. Motte has neither, and never has. The two simply aren't comparable.
That's fair, though people aren't actually looking at Motte's skill set and instead are relying on his statlines. He'sore skilled than his stats suggest, and while not an ideal PP option is still better suited to the role than Kastelic at this point in time imo. Thatay change but Kastelic needs to be quicker imo if you want to recover lose pucks and keep the pressure on.
At least Kastelic has something he could contribute. He'd be a pain to move. Motte contributes next to nothing in that role.
I feel like people aren't actually watching the pp and just assuming Motte must be the problem. He's been fine on the PP, in fact, his CF/60, SF/60, GF/60 on the PP are all best on the team. He's there to recover pucks and get them to the skilled guys, maybe set up some screens and bang away at loose picks. He's been effective at recovering the puck and and helping set things up, we need more from DeBrincat, Giroux, Pinto and Sanderson, they aren't getting the looks you'd like to see, but we are gaining entry, and maintaining pressure.
Ideally, we'd have neither on there. I'd go with:

Giroux - Tkachuk - DeBrincat
Batherson - Chabot

Stützle - Pinto - Norris
Brannstrom - Sanderson

It's okay to have two D on a PP, especially when they have significantly more offensive ability compared to Motte, Joseph and Kastelic. Both Brannstrom and Sanderson can be shot threats. Brannstrom's shot was one of his top attributes as a prospect (it's unfortunate that he's been unable to use it since coming here), and Sanderson is great at getting it on net.
Very few teams go with 2 D on the PP, we can certainly try it but we and most of the NHL like to run a 1-3-1 setup these days. Putting Sanderson or Brannstrom as one of the three isn't ideal as both DeBrincat and Pinto are far better shooters.
Also, suggesting to remove Motte off the PP is in no way "fans panicking". It's fans talking about what they think the team should do. That's the point of this forum. We could be a 55 win team and it'd still be fine to talk about, and disagree with, certain line combinations. No one, as far as I can tell, is suggesting that Motte on the PP is the reason we're 0-2.
Suggesting we use someone else is fine, the issue is the way it's being done. If I say there's a fire in the building, pull the alarm, and calmly make my way out, vs scream fire and run the out the door, in both instances I'm vacating the building and letting the firemen do their job, but one reaction is panicked while the other is not.

People are demanding he be off the PP without actually examining what's gone wrong with the pp. Imo Motte hasn't been the issue. Could we find success with someone else, sure, but I don't think he's actually been the problem. The unit lacks reps, Giroux, Pinto, Sanderson, and DeBrincat will start finding each other as they get more reps. The guy digging out pucks from the corner is doing his job right now.
 

DaveMatthew

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Very few teams go with 2 D on the PP, we can certainly try it but we and most of the NHL like to run a 1-3-1 setup these days. Putting Sanderson or Brannstrom as one of the three isn't ideal as both DeBrincat and Pinto are far better shooters.

Suggesting we use someone else is fine, the issue is the way it's being done. If I say there's a fire in the building, pull the alarm, and calmly make my way out, vs scream fire and run the out the door, in both instances I'm vacating the building and letting the firemen do their job, but one reaction is panicked while the other is not.

People are demanding he be off the PP without actually examining what's gone wrong with the pp. Imo Motte hasn't been the issue. Could we find success with someone else, sure, but I don't think he's actually been the problem. The unit lacks reps, Giroux, Pinto, Sanderson, and DeBrincat will start finding each other as they get more reps. The guy digging out pucks from the corner is doing his job right now.

Brannstrom has a very good slapshot and one-timer. I remember at the WJC in 2019, the Swedish PP revolved around setting him up for the shot, and he had 4 goals in 5 games. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do as more of a centerpiece in the NHL, especially since he looks to have shown up in a much better place to start this year compared to the last couple.

In regards to Motte, no he hasn't been the problem. That's fair to say. But there are better options to put out there to try and find a solution, IMO, even if the role is "dig out pucks".
 

Ice-Tray

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Brannstrom has a very good slapshot and one-timer. I remember at the WJC in 2019, the Swedish PP revolved around setting him up for the shot, and he had 4 goals in 5 games. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do as more of a centerpiece in the NHL, especially since he looks to have shown up in a much better place to start this year compared to the last couple.

In regards to Motte, no he hasn't been the problem. That's fair to say. But there are better options to put out there to try and find a solution, IMO, even if the role is "dig out pucks".
Given what I’ve seen from Bran this season, I wouldn’t be too surprised if all of a sudden he showed up to a game with an NHL slap shot one day. That would be great.

Have seen little beyond muffins and misses to date though.

The only clear cut better option than Motte on the roster is Brass in my opinion. I’m sure that Kastelic and Joseph will get looks if that unit gets stale, but I understand letting that chemistry build based on preseason performances for a bit before shaking it up.
 

Golden_Jet

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Brannstrom has a very good slapshot and one-timer. I remember at the WJC in 2019, the Swedish PP revolved around setting him up for the shot, and he had 4 goals in 5 games. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do as more of a centerpiece in the NHL, especially since he looks to have shown up in a much better place to start this year compared to the last couple.

In regards to Motte, no he hasn't been the problem. That's fair to say. But there are better options to put out there to try and find a solution, IMO, even if the role is "dig out pucks".
6 assists total last year on PP, averaging 2:07 per game, more when Chabot was out.
 

Micklebot

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Brannstrom has a very good slapshot and one-timer. I remember at the WJC in 2019, the Swedish PP revolved around setting him up for the shot, and he had 4 goals in 5 games. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do as more of a centerpiece in the NHL, especially since he looks to have shown up in a much better place to start this year compared to the last couple.
He hasn't shown that good one timer in a while, whereas both Pinto and DeBrincat have. That role is filled imo, which is why we aren't likely going to see two Dmen
In regards to Motte, no he hasn't been the problem. That's fair to say. But there are better options to put out there to try and find a solution, IMO, even if the role is "dig out pucks".

Like I said, I thought Joseph was the natural fit, a bit more skilled, but with the same relentless motor to go after the loose picks and keep the play going. Motte hasn't been the issue so I find it odd that everyone is jumping on him instead of calling out the skilled guys that aren't finding success in their given roles. Sometimes you break out of a rut with meat and potatoes, trying to be fancy just gives you the yips.
 

DaveMatthew

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Given what I’ve seen from Bran this season, I wouldn’t be too surprised if all of a sudden he showed up to a game with an NHL slap shot one day. That would be great.

Have seen little beyond muffins and misses to date though.

The only clear cut better option than Motte on the roster is Brass in my opinion. I’m sure that Kastelic and Joseph will get looks if that unit gets stale, but I understand letting that chemistry build based on preseason performances for a bit before shaking it up.

Brassard hasn't been a good PP player for a while. 18 points in his last 165 games despite almost 2:00 a night on the powerplay. He's lost too much of a step to be a guy who can contribute night in and night out with the puck, and he's never been someone who could play a net-front/puck retrieval role. He could step in if there's an injury, but he wouldn't be a great compliment to our skill players.

Kastelic, at 6'4 230lbs, doesn't need the puck to contribute. He could plant himself in front of the net and be a distraction/wait for a tip or rebound.

Big, heavy guy in front of the net used to be a strategy lots of teams employed. We did it with Neil for a while.

Motte/Brassard/Joseph are not big or heavy. And they're not going to have the puck much, considering who else is on the unit.

He hasn't shown that good one timer in a while, whereas both Pinto and DeBrincat have. That role is filled imo, which is why we aren't likely going to see two Dmen


Like I said, I thought Joseph was the natural fit, a bit more skilled, but with the same relentless motor to go after the loose picks and keep the play going. Motte hasn't been the issue so I find it odd that everyone is jumping on him instead of calling out the skilled guys that aren't finding success in their given roles. Sometimes you break out of a rut with meat and potatoes, trying to be fancy just gives you the yips.

Motte is high-energy, but he's not meat and potatoes. He's easy to defend. A guy like Sandin can hold his own against Motte in front of, or behind, the net. He wouldn't be able to against Kastelic.
 

Micklebot

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Motte is high-energy, but he's not meat and potatoes. He's easy to defend. A guy like Sandin can hold his own against Motte in front of, or behind, the net. He wouldn't be able to against Kastelic.
Motte is very much meat and potatoes, north south and hard working. He uses speed and tenacity to get to pucks first. Kastelic isn't quick enough to be first on loose picks against a guy like Sandin, each has their strength and weakness.
 

DaveMatthew

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Motte is very much meat and potatoes, north south and hard working. He uses speed and tenacity to get to pucks first. Kastelic isn't quick enough to be first on loose picks against a guy like Sandin, each has their strength and weakness.

Our PP setup revolves around, for the most part, carrying the puck into the zone, not dumping it in. And we tend to carry it in pretty slowly (and still do that drop back pass which lets everyone catchup). So Motte's puck retrieval skills aren't all that useful. Once we set up in our triangle, he doesn't contribute much.

Based on how our PP is structured (try to get it over for a one-timer), I'd much rather have a big frame standing in front of the net and forcing a defender to stay low.

Kastelic could be a (very) poor-man's Brady Tkachuk around the crease. Cause havoc in front of the net and open up lanes for everyone else. And it's not like he hasn't shown some touch. He scored a lot of goals his last two years in the WHL.

Hell, if you consider how big NHL goalies are today, most of them could see right over Motte even when crouched.
 
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Ice-Tray

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Brassard hasn't been a good PP player for a while. 18 points in his last 165 games despite almost 2:00 a night on the powerplay. He's lost too much of a step to be a guy who can contribute night in and night out with the puck, and he's never been someone who could play a net-front/puck retrieval role. He could step in if there's an injury, but he wouldn't be a great compliment to our skill players.

Kastelic, at 6'4 230lbs, doesn't need the puck to contribute. He could plant himself in front of the net and be a distraction/wait for a tip or rebound.

Big, heavy guy in front of the net used to be a strategy lots of teams employed. We did it with Neil for a while.

Motte/Brassard/Joseph are not big or heavy. And they're not going to have the puck much, considering who else is on the unit.



Motte is high-energy, but he's not meat and potatoes. He's easy to defend. A guy like Sandin can hold his own against Motte in front of, or behind, the net. He wouldn't be able to against Kastelic.
I don’t disagree with much here at all, and I think that guys all bring something a bit different.

Motte has the board battling and puck retrieval, Kastelic has the big body to stand in front of the net, Brass has the IQ and passing, and Joseph, not sure yet.

Obviously if you put all those together you basically get most of what Brady is, lol.

For our PP system, the down low guy has to be more than a net presence, in fact standing in front of the nest seems to be the least important for him because we don’t play a point shot, and the Norris and Cat shots are usually cross passes to create an open net.

If Kastelic could be as effect at puck retrieval as Motte, that would be a bonus, because if I had to choose one attribute from the above it would be the ability to retain position and give it to the skilled guys. I’m not sure Kastelic is that guy yet, he’s a bit slow to react, and is a rookie. I don’t think where to put the puck and what to do to get it is quite second nature yet for him.

Joseph may actually be a guy who brings more from each area combined, than any of the others guys.

Most teams don’t have the luxury of being serious about the final player on PP2, treating it as we would a PP1, so it’s a good problem to have here.
 

Micklebot

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Our PP setup revolves around, for the most part, carrying the puck into the zone, not dumping it in. And we tend to carry it in pretty slowly. So Motte's puck retrieval skills aren't all that useful. Once we set up in our triangle, he doesn't contribute much.
Well no, every time we take a shot we need to recover the puck and he's been efficient in that role. Also you need to have the threat of a dump in for a slow entry to work,
Based on how our PP is structured (try to get it over for a one-timer), I'd much rather have a big frame standing in front of the net and forcing a defender to stay low.
I want someone who will maintain pressure by retrieving the lose pucks, the defence won't just leave the net because the guy down low isn't big, I'm not understanding why you think Kastelic specifically would keep the defender low but Motte doesn't.
Kastelic could be a (very) poor-man's Brady Tkachuk around the crease. Cause havoc in front of the net and open up lanes for everyone else. And it's not like he hasn't shown some touch. He scored a lot of goals his last two years in the WHL.
He could, but I don't see the footspeep yet to outwork the PK. I'm a big believer in PP needing to be quicker that the opposition, you tire them down and then get your quality chances, if we're one and done because our poor man's Brady isn't retrieving loose picks then they get their change and stay fresh.

I'm not tied to Motte, I'd rather see Joseph or bring Brassard in for Kelly over Kastelic on the PP though.
 
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DaveMatthew

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Well no, every time we take a shot we need to recover the puck and he's been efficient in that role. Also you need to have the threat of a dump in for a slow entry to work,

I want someone who will maintain pressure by retrieving the lose pucks, the defence won't just leave the net because the guy down low isn't big, I'm not understanding why you think Kastelic specifically would keep the defender low but Motte doesn't.

He could, but I don't see the footspeep yet to outwork the PK. I'm a big believer in PP needing to be quicker that the opposition, you tire them down and then get your quality chances, if we're one and done because our poor man's Brady isn't retrieving loose picks then they get their change and stay fresh.

I'm not tied to Motte, I'd rather see Joseph or bring Brassard in for Kelly over Kastelic on the PP though.

I think Kastelic would be perfectly fine getting to, and winning, puck battles in front/behind the net and in the corners.

But at the end of the day, it's been 2 games. I bet we'll see all of Motte, Joseph, Brassard and Kastelic get some PP time over the next 10 days. So we'll see what works best. I'll put my money on Kastelic carving out a bigger role as the season progresses.

There are a lot of small defensemen in the league nowadays. Having Tkachuk on PP1 with another big guy on PP2 could be a unique advantage. Milan Lucic and Pat Maroon still get on the ice for powerplays in Calgary and TB, for that same reason.
 

Micklebot

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I think Kastelic would be perfectly fine getting to, and winning, puck battles in front/behind the net and in the corners.

But at the end of the day, it's been 2 games. I bet we'll see all of Motte, Joseph, Brassard and Kastelic get some PP time over the next 10 days. So we'll see what works best. I'll put my money on Kastelic carving out a bigger role as the season progresses.

There are a lot of small defensemen in the league nowadays. Having Tkachuk on PP1 with another big guy on PP2 could be a unique advantage. Milan Lucic and Pat Maroon still get on the ice for powerplays in Calgary and TB, for that same reason.
I just find Kastelic isn't quick enough, once he's moving he's fine. I'm a big believer he will get there, I just don't think he's there yet.

Btw Maroon hasn't been on the PP this year, neither has Lucic. I'm sure as injuries hit both will get their looks again, but they certainly aren't viewed as mainstays.
 

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Brampton
Brannstrom has a very good slapshot and one-timer. I remember at the WJC in 2019, the Swedish PP revolved around setting him up for the shot, and he had 4 goals in 5 games. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do as more of a centerpiece in the NHL, especially since he looks to have shown up in a much better place to start this year compared to the last couple.
I'd like to see Brannstrom QB a PP, his passing is very good. As long as he hustles his arse off if the puck goes behind him, he could make it work.
 
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