Entire Russian U-18 team replaced due to positive drug tests

[Namejs]

I have trouble believing that a collection of highly trained medical professionals would respond to Alexei's death by implementing a large scale program to give what appears to be a lot of Russian athletes a drug designed for middle aged people with angina.

I recognize that it's possible.

It just seems unlikely (and a massive over reaction).

What you don't realize is that meldonium has been used as an over-the-counter drug by millions of people in Russia and elsewhere.

Instinctively, when you hear this random drug and that it's banned, your first reaction is probably a bunch of assumptions about how awful it is and how despicable it is of the Russians to be cheating at such a large scale, but it's genuinely been used as a food supplement not just by athletes, but by regular people all across the board for decades.

There's nothing shady about it. Their only fault is plain negligence on the part of Russian medical teams to be ignoring a WADA-issued ban for so long. There's no justification for that.

 

[Siberian]

I'm starting to think you're somehow involved in all of this.

Seriously, guy. It was on the WADA warning list since 2015. That's a full year of people being aware that it's something you shouldn't be using as an athlete.

How come Latvian athletes aren't getting banned anywhere for using meldonium? Let me tell you why, because we don't have our heads up our ***, and we read the warnings that have been sent to us.

What can I say, Holmes, you nailed it. Yes, because Russian are cheaters. They purposely, knowing that Meldonium is a banned drug continued taking it hoping that they will not get caught!

 

[Fantomas]

So... not all of the players on the team tested positive? Was Sergachev there at the time of the testing?

 

[Siberian]

IBU (biathlon) puts a delay on Meldonium cases, orders a study how long it takes for Meldonium to leave body.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/923801/new-study-forces-delay-in-biathlon-meldonium-cases

Just like I said WADA was clueless, rushed into reinforcing this upon everyone without proper investigation.

 

[Namejs]

What can I say, Holmes, you nailed it. Yes, because Russian are cheaters. They purposely, knowing that Meldonium is a banned drug continued taking it hoping that they will not get caught!

Strawman after strawman after strawman.

They're not cheaters (at least not most of them), they're incompetent and unprofessional. Which does not justify their actions in any way.

 

[tempest2i]

What you don't realize is that meldonium has been used as an over-the-counter drug by millions of people in Russia and elsewhere.

Instinctively, when you hear this random drug and that it's banned, your first reaction is probably a bunch of assumptions about how awful it is and how despicable it is of the Russians to be cheating at such a large scale, but it's genuinely been used as a food supplement not just by athletes, but by regular people all across the board for decades.

There's nothing shady about it. Their only fault is plain negligence on the part of Russian medical teams to be ignoring a WADA-issued ban for so long. There's no justification for that.

My first assumption isn't how despicable it is of Russians to be cheating at such a large scale.

My first reaction was "why are they still getting caught?".

If watching pro cycling for years has taught me anything, I expect cheaters stay one step ahead of the testers. Quite frankly it's disappointing to see so many athletes still getting caught failing these tests.

 

[Namejs]

My first assumption isn't how despicable it is of Russians to be cheating at such a large scale.

My first reaction was "why are they still getting caught?".

If watching pro cycling for years has taught me anything, I expect cheaters stay one step ahead of the testers. Quite frankly it's disappointing to see so many athletes still getting caught failing these tests.

A cheater is someone who's knowingly trying to gain an unfair advantage over other athletes. There's no element of that here.

 

[tempest2i]

A cheater is someone who's knowingly trying to gain an unfair advantage over other athletes. There's no element of that here.

Sure.

Feel free to sub "I expect athletes to remain one step ahead of the testers." into my post when you read it. Doesn't change my opinion on the matter.

 

[Yakushev72]

It's the national anti-doping agencies that conduct the tests in each respective counntries.

They can disqualify them (individuals) from the Olympics, but not from KHL play. They have no jurisdiction over private entities.

 

[Yakushev72]

Whether Meldonium actually has any real benefit for hockey, which is played primarily in an anaerobic state (or you'll lose your job), if it is a banned substance, then the coach should be fired immediately (he was in fact fired), no questions asked. I think the RHF lost a potentially great coach in Prokhorov, but firing the coach is an absolute imperative! Doping has to be eradicated in Russia and everywhere else, and particularly in Russia, where the suspicion is so thick that every Russian athlete is going to tested and tested and tested. Doping will cease when the coach believes that he will lose his livelihood for encouraging doping violations. However, if it is determined that Meldonium stays in the system for 6 months or longer, like marijuana, then the doping authorities should adjust their timetable to make sure that they are not detecting medication taken before the ban.

 

[Namejs]

Everyone in Latvia takes it and knows exactly how it works? Amazing. Those guys don't have ischemic desease. Clearly, meldonium is a national treasure of Latvia. It explains why there is so much of Latvian input in this thread.

The overwhelming majority of Latvian hockey players took it, yes. It was widely discussed in the media and everyone was told to quit using it, because it's banned now. So they stopped using meldonium. Makes sense? I think it does. When something gets banned, you stop using it. Sounds simple and sensible.

Yet for some reason it turned out to be an unsurmountable challenge for the entire Russian sports industry, as it has lead to dozens and dozens of Russian athletes getting banned from international competition.

The reason why there's a lot of Latvian input in here is because the drug was invented by a Latvian scientist and it's still mostly manufactured here as well. Also, a lot of us have access to the internet and most of us speak English, which is not the case in Russia.

 

[Siberian]

So bottom line is that it turns out to be a technical issue, not a doping issue. WADA turned this drug into an illegal one, however they clearly do not know how long ago may have athletes taken it. The drugs may have been used in December or November of 2015 and athletes can still be positive for it now in April of 2016. IBU (Biathlon) has already admitted to this issue. WADA hasd't done their proper due diligence very likely in order to throw Russian sports under the bus. It is ridiculous to make statements that Russian hockey players are doping, they have no proof that the drugs were taken after Jan 1 and not before and this is not retroactive, that means if a person took a completely legal drug one day and you can not label him as a doper.

 

[Namejs]

So bottom line is that it turns out to be a technical issue, not a doping issue. WADA turned this drug into an illegal one, however they clearly do not know how long ago may have athletes taken it. The drugs may have been used in December or November of 2015 and athletes can still be positive for it now in April of 2016. IBU (Biathlon) has already admitted to this issue. WADA hasd't done their proper due diligence very likely in order to throw Russian sports under the bus.

Are you an agent for some of the Russian players or something?

There has been research done on how long it takes for meldonium to not leave any detectable traces in the body. The Latvian Olympic Committee issued a statement last year that it takes 2 months (with a half-life of 15 hours), but they banned the use of meldonium since October just to err on the side of caution.

There hasn't been a single case of meldonium abuse among Latvian athletes yet. So what you're saying about people getting banned in April for using meldonium last year is completely made up to suit your own agenda. It simply does not correspond to the reality of things.

Your statement about 'throwing Russian sports under the bus' borders on the insane. These are the kind of conspiracy theories that are being made up in Kremlin-controlled media all the time these days. But they're just that, conspiracy theories.

 

[Seachd]

Sorry, but this is a little bit too easy. The WADA published in September 2015 the new list for 2016 where Meldonium was added to the prohibetd substances.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2015-09/wada-publishes-2016-prohibited-list

It's now the job of the russian doping agency and the federations to communicate this. Last but not least it's the job of each sportsmen to check what he takes and if it's allowed or not. You're responsible for what you take.

This makes it seem pretty open-and-shut. If they didn't know about it, they clearly should have.

So do we know how many players on this team tested positive?

 

[Jussi]

They can disqualify them (individuals) from the Olympics, but not from KHL play. They have no jurisdiction over private entities.

I guess you missed this: http://en.khl.ru/news/2016/03/04/241988.html

 

[Siberian]

There has been research done on how long it takes for meldonium to not leave any detectable traces in the body. The Latvian Olympic Committee issued a statement last year that it takes 2 months (with a half-life of 15 hours), but they banned the use of meldonium since October just to err on the side of caution.

Either you are lying or your Olympic Committee is completely out to lunch. If it was clear cut why would IBU say that "there is no scientific consensus on how long it takes to leave the body"?
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ibu-delay-rulings-meldonium-doping-cases-38187067

 

[Hanji]

Either you are lying or your Olympic Committee is completely out to lunch. If it was clear cut why would IBU say that "there is no scientific consensus on how long it takes to leave the body"?
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ibu-delay-rulings-meldonium-doping-cases-38187067

Interesting read. It would be wise to withhold judgement until those studies are completed. 123 meldonium cases is a lot. I don't believe that many people could be THAT stupid as to get caught, or being so careless. Something isn't adding up.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

It's Russia, and Tretiak:

"Oops, we got caught!"

"Substitute U-17 team for U-18 team."

"Glory for Mother Russia!"

Tretiak and the Soviet team were shooting up before every Olympics and World Championship before doping tests. What a mess.

The Warsaw Pact teams had systemic doping throughout the Cold War. ****, an East German track star had to become a man because of her developments.

At the end of the day, Russia needs to suspended from international tournaments for a year or two.

 

[Namejs]

Either you are lying or your Olympic Committee is completely out to lunch. If it was clear cut why would IBU say that "there is no scientific consensus on how long it takes to leave the body"?
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ibu-delay-rulings-meldonium-doping-cases-38187067

There's a whole array of possible explanations. IBU might be corrupt; or it might have something to do with the fact that Russia/Ukraine/Belarus form a large market share in biathlon. It's obvious they don't want to lose their audience over this. Especially considering how most biathletes just so happen to be asthmatics. Biathlon is the cycling of winter sports, I'm sure you're aware of it. I don't think using it as a reference point gives you any credibility whatsoever.

'No scientific consensus' is a very misleading way of putting it. We do know that the half-life of meldonium is 15 hours. So you just divide it by 2 until there's nothing left. I crunched some numbers in my address bar just now, so this is by no means precise science, but after 2 months you're going to have something like 30-40 molecules of the substance in your body. There definitely shouldn't be anything left in 3 months.

The problem is that there isn't a clearly defined lower limit for the substance. Lab equipments are different, more advanced ones will pick up minuscule amounts of meldonium, etc. There's no unified methodology and no specific limit has been set. So, yes, if you did ingest meldonium in December, they could've picked up some trace amounts of it in January or February.

But that kind of argument definitely no longer applies to tests taken in March/April or later.

 

[Siberian]

There's a whole array of possible explanations. IBU might be corrupt; or it might have something to do with the fact that Russia/Ukraine/Belarus form a large market share in biathlon. It's obvious they don't want to lose their audience over this. Especially considering how most biathletes just so happen to be asthmatics. Biathlon is the cycling of winter sports, I'm sure you're aware of it. I don't think using it as a reference point gives you any credibility whatsoever.

'No scientific consensus' is a very misleading way of putting it. We do know that the half-life of meldonium is 15 hours. So you just divide it by 2 until there's nothing left. I crunched some numbers in my address bar just now, so this is by no means precise science, but after 2 months you're going to have something like 30-40 molecules of the substance in your body. There definitely shouldn't be anything left in 3 months.

The problem is that there isn't a clearly defined lower limit for the substance. Lab equipments are different, more advanced ones will pick up minuscule amounts of meldonium, etc. There's no unified methodology and no specific limit has been set. So, yes, if you did ingest meldonium in December, they could've picked up some trace amounts of it in January or February.

But that kind of argument definitely no longer applies to tests taken in March/April or later.

Can you please stop lying in this thread and provide a single link with a proof of your words? I always provide mine, here is more

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...wer-how-long-meldonium-stays-system/82664256/

or


http://www.globalpost.com/article/6...w-study-forces-delay-biathlon-meldonium-cases

According to the second link there was a pilot study which proved that existing literature on the drug contradicted with the study. Because of that a new study was ordered that by September 2016 will find out how long the drug stays.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

We roll our eyes at an NHL/pro or junior/college player being suspended for doping.

An entire team? Russia is going back to the dark ages of doping.

Suspend the the entire program.

 

[Namejs]

Can you please stop lying in this thread and provide a single link with a proof of your words? I always provide mine, here is more

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...wer-how-long-meldonium-stays-system/82664256/

or


http://www.globalpost.com/article/6...w-study-forces-delay-biathlon-meldonium-cases

According to the second link there was a pilot study which proved that existing literature on the drug contradicted with the study. Because of that a new study was ordered that by September 2016 will find out how long the drug stays.

I would like to remind you that you're currently not in Russia, so it would be great if you could try to stick to a more civilized way of discussing things, without the constant use of unwarranted accusations of 'lying', personal insults and general intellectual dishonesty.

Everything I posted here about how long meldonium stays in the system was taken from an interview with the head of the Latvian Anti-Doping Agency Gatis Berkis.

Here's the article published in October 2015 by that same agency regarding the use of meldonium: http://www.antidopings.lv/arhivs/2015/meldonium-02-10-2015/

Seeing how out of hundreds of Latvian athletes not a single one has been caught with any traces of meldonium in their system, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Latvian calculations have been more or less correct.

In fact, you can discard the argument about half-life of meldonium. It's basic logic. If a number of different nations were using the drug, but only Ukraine/Russia and a couple of other countries exclusively have had such massive problems with their drug tests, they must've done something wrong. They easily could've avoided it, but they didn't. End of story.

 

[kabidjan18]

Man...some of ya'll got some weird flags like you in some foreign time zone but ya'll still get back in 20 minutes around the clock. Impressive.

 

[Siberian]

I would like to remind you that you're currently not in Russia, so it would be great if you could try to stick to a more civilized way of discussing things, without the constant use of unwarranted accusations of 'lying', personal insults and general intellectual dishonesty.

Everything I posted here about how long meldonium stays in the system was taken from an interview with the head of the Latvian Anti-Doping Agency Gatis Berkis.

Here's the article published in October 2015 by that same agency regarding the use of meldonium: http://www.antidopings.lv/arhivs/2015/meldonium-02-10-2015/

Seeing how out of hundreds of Latvian athletes not a single one has been caught with any traces of meldonium in their system, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Latvian calculations have been more or less correct.

In fact, you can discard the argument about half-life of meldonium. It's basic logic. If a number of different nations were using the drug, but only Ukraine/Russia and a couple of other countries exclusively have had such massive problems with their drug tests, they must've done something wrong. They easily could've avoided it, but they didn't. End of story.

All you do is recycle the info they gave you in Latvian media. I have seen at least a couple of Latvian articles (Google translate) that recycle this ridiculous calculation based on half life. This is ridiculous because these people have zero understanding how WADA tests for meldonium. Calculation based on half life has no relation to WADA tests, I am trying to explain to you all this time. It is clear right now that based on a pilot study that nobody knows for sure how long meldonium can be tested by WADA after its last use.

 

[Namejs]

All you do is recycle the info they gave you in Latvian media. I have seen at least a couple of Latvian articles (Google translate) that recycle this ridiculous calculation based on half life. This is ridiculous because these people have zero understanding how WADA tests for meldonium. Calculation based on half life has no relation to WADA tests, I am trying to explain to you all this time. It is clear right now that based on a pilot study that nobody knows for sure how long meldonium can be tested by WADA after its last use.

They have zero understanding how WADA tests for meldonium. Wow. Just wow.

You do realize that they're a WADA-authorized anti-doping agency themselves? They conduct drug tests for God's sake.