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Entire Russian U-18 team replaced due to positive drug tests

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Fantomas said:
If this is true
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That's one big 'if'. You should take everything coming from the Russians with a bucket of salt. It's perfectly plausible that they carried out some tests themselves just to see meldonium all over the place and decided not to implicate anyone.
 
Namejs said:
If they had actually sent their U-17 team, we would've been the favorites in that game. Their D corps is awful, no good goalie prospects either, as far as I know. Nothing spectacular in offense either.

But they won't be sending their U-17 team, as it was already pointed out. There's plenty of NA-based NHL draft prospects that will make the team competitive.
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I don't believe this. I posted the preliminary roster for Latvia under Latvian prospects in the east europe section. If you look at the HK riga stats vs. Russian U17 MHL players the Russian U17 players are statistically better. Looking abroad there aren't really any notable Latvians playing abroad either. Smirnovs plays in the league that other nation's U16 players play in. Others play in an assortment of NA leagues, the only perhaps notable from there is Blugers. Russia has a similar assortment of NA players, just a lot more.
 
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Prohorov was said that he will not include in roster guys from chl end now his been not included self. Who could have foreseen this
 
The suggestion that this stuff is vitamin-like, or is being taken by athletes to prevent another tragedy, is absurd. It's a pharmaceutical, a medication, just another in a long line of drugs that some athletes believe gives them an edge. Here's a suggestion: if you want something vitamin-like, try vitamins. It's obvious why its use is widespread among Russian athletes -- and it's not because they're afraid they're going to keel over if they don't take it. The fact it's also sold over-the-counter in Russia doesn't make its use any more legit in the athletic realm. WADA bans dozens of over-the-counter drugs.

I agree that the U18 kids should get to play. They're not to blame here.
 
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Namejs said:
I see that you've borrowed Kremlin's propaganda methods.

Just because you call the people actually responsible for analyzing drug tests 'idiots' and 'liars' constantly, it doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't help your cause. You're just looking like a very desperate and a very ignorant Russian apologetic.
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I`m laughing about Kremlin propaganda too, although I`m Russian, but there is no place for politic, and you don`t have to drag it there. If you don`t want to seem wild.
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Also, unnamed source on the first russian sport portal sports.ru reports, meldonium was not a reason to send U17 in USA.

Waiting for official comments of Tretyjak and Prokhorov. They seemed to have evaporated
 
Macman said:
The suggestion that this stuff is vitamin-like, or is being taken by athletes to prevent another tragedy, is absurd. It's a pharmaceutical, a medication, just another in a long line of drugs that some athletes believe gives them an edge. Here's a suggestion: if you want something vitamin-like, try vitamins. It's obvious why its use is widespread among Russian athletes -- and it's not because they're afraid they're going to keel over if they don't take it. The fact it's also sold over-the-counter in Russia doesn't make its use any more legit in the athletic realm. WADA ban dozens of over-the-counter drugs.

I agree that the U18 kids should get to play. They're not to blame here.
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:handclap:
I absolutely agree with this, except that I don't think Russian authorities really had much of a choice but to pull that U18 team if the kids had been or were going to be tested for meldonium as part of playing in this tournament.
 
kabidjan18 said:
I don't believe this. I posted the preliminary roster for Latvia under Latvian prospects in the east europe section. If you look at the HK riga stats vs. Russian U17 MHL players the Russian U17 players are statistically better. Looking abroad there aren't really any notable Latvians playing abroad either. Smirnovs plays in the league that other nation's U16 players play in. Others play in an assortment of NA leagues, the only perhaps notable from there is Blugers. Russia has a similar assortment of NA players, just a lot more.
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I don't frequent the East Europe section, as I don't have a particular interest in Eastern European hockey.

Russian U17 players are not better at this point and time. They have more potential and they're more talented in principle, but they're not actually better than 18-year-old Latvians. And it looks like you've missed that they have a Russian-based national development program now. Their U17 team doesn't have any North American players. Their U17 team consists of a mix of MHL/Russia U17 players. Their goaltending and D is worse, in terms of offense they might be a little better, but it's close.

We have played exhibition games previously against the Russian U17 (U18 vs. U17), U16 (U17 vs. U16) NTs, and beat them.

I have no idea why you brought up HK Riga. It's a single Latvian junior team, not our national team. Apart from goalies, we only have 6 MHL-based players on our roster and most of them aren't among our leading players.
 
Macman said:
The suggestion that this stuff is vitamin-like, or is being taken by athletes to prevent another tragedy, is absurd. It's a pharmaceutical, a medication, just another in a long line of drugs that some athletes believe gives them an edge. Here's a suggestion: if you want something vitamin-like, try vitamins. It's obvious why its use is widespread among Russian athletes -- and it's not because they're afraid they're going to keel over if they don't take it. The fact it's also sold over-the-counter in Russia doesn't make its use any more legit in the athletic realm. WADA ban dozens of over-the-counter drugs.

I agree that the U18 kids should get to play. They're not to blame here.
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In theory it should be absurd. In reality though, north Americans consume aspirin or advil as though it was a vitamin. Because of cultural reasons the drug taken is different but it's not at all strange, though unhealthy, for people to take pharmaceuticals like vitamins.
 
Namejs said:
I don't frequent the East Europe section, as I don't have a particular interest in Eastern European hockey.

Russian U17 players are not better at this point and time. They have more potential and they're more talented in principle, but they're not actually better than 18-year-old Latvians. And it looks like you've missed that they have a Russian-based national development program now. Their U17 team doesn't have any North American players. Their U17 team consists of a mix of MHL/Russia U17 players. Their goaltending and D is worse, in terms of offense they might be a little better, but it's close.

We have played exhibition games previously against the Russian U17 (U18 vs. U17), U16 (U17 vs. U16) NTs, and beat them.

I have no idea why you brought up HK Riga. It's a single Latvian junior team, not our national team. Apart from goalies, we only have 6 MHL-based players on our roster and most of them aren't among our leading players.
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Actually I believe your top scorers are from HK riga which is why I mentioned it. Off the top of my head Vulkanovs. For a tournament like this they would add their American based players like Maximov. Are these friendly results from this year or in general? I haven't seen any such reports for it but it may be less formal. Russia's U17 this year is pretty typical. Latvia's U18 this year is the worst Latvian U18 I can remember. Results from a better year shouldn't be extrapolated. I'd also like a Russian to weigh in on this for the other side.
 
ValeriKamensky said:
http://www.sports.ru/hockey/1038884772.html

AHAHAHAHAH.

Tretyjak: roster`s change before WJC - our tactical decision.

TACTICAL DECISION. They spend over 700 millions RUB for this project, take a lot of players from their clubs to army mode, and tactical decision? He`s f////g kiding us
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And what else do you expect him to say?? "Kids have meldonium, kill them with fire"? Obviously he has to stay at the point, that officially nothing happened. Yes, he will look like an idiot, but he has to do that.

kabidjan18 said:
In theory it should be absurd. In reality though, north Americans consume aspirin or advil as though it was a vitamin. Because of cultural reasons the drug taken is different but it's not at all strange, though unhealthy, for people to take pharmaceuticals like vitamins.
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I can say about Latvia (as I reside here most part of the year), that here meldonium is considered as a much 'less pharmaceutical' thing than advil, almost like a food supplement. Doctors recommend it almost against everything related to blood circulation.
 
Macman said:
The suggestion that this stuff is vitamin-like, or is being taken by athletes to prevent another tragedy, is absurd. It's a pharmaceutical, a medication, just another in a long line of drugs that some athletes believe gives them an edge. Here's a suggestion: if you want something vitamin-like, try vitamins. It's obvious why its use is widespread among Russian athletes -- and it's not because they're afraid they're going to keel over if they don't take it. The fact it's also sold over-the-counter in Russia doesn't make its use any more legit in the athletic realm. WADA ban dozens of over-the-counter drugs.

I agree that the U18 kids should get to play. They're not to blame here.
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It is an anti-ischemic drug developed in Latvia that has been on the market for 46 years, and has been used by Eastern European athletes in many different sports. Its medical purpose is to dilate arteries in order to improve blood flow to the heart. It has properties that are very similar to insulin, according to Wikipedia, which suggests that WADA may be on the verge of banning diabetics from sport. It may have benefits in oxygenating the heart that would be useful in long endurance sports like cross country skiing, stage cycling or marathon running.

I have no idea how its properties would help a hockey player, since hockey shifts are a minute or less and at 150% of VO2 max. Maybe it would allow a faster recovery between shifts, but that seems unlikely, since the typical interval between shifts is 2-4 minutes, depending on events. It did not create a real advantage for Eastern European athletes, and it will not produce a noticeable affect on performance once its completely gone. For some athletes, particularly chess players and archers referenced earlier, its just a psychological aid more than a performance aid.
 
Caser said:
And what else do you expect him to say?? "Kids have meldonium, kill them with fire"? Obviously he has to stay at the point, that officially nothing happened. Yes, he will look like an idiot, but he has to do that.
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I can`t imagine that only U18 guys take meldonium. Obviously pro hockey players take meldonium too. IIHF WC in Moscow/SPB will begin soon, and what Tretyjak says in May? "We send U17 team, this is our tactical decision?"

I think, terrible end is better than horrow without end. If they tell the truth now, it will begin to change. I mean separation old marasmic soviet people like Tretyak from russian hockey.
 
Macman said:
The suggestion that this stuff is vitamin-like, or is being taken by athletes to prevent another tragedy, is absurd. It's a pharmaceutical, a medication, just another in a long line of drugs that some athletes believe gives them an edge. Here's a suggestion: if you want something vitamin-like, try vitamins. It's obvious why its use is widespread among Russian athletes -- and it's not because they're afraid they're going to keel over if they don't take it. The fact it's also sold over-the-counter in Russia doesn't make its use any more legit in the athletic realm. WADA ban dozens of over-the-counter drugs.

I agree that the U18 kids should get to play. They're not to blame here.
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What are you talking about?


Tens of millions non-athletes use meldonium for just plain good health with the heart and circulation. Most likely a lot of these players took it as kids to help promote healthy living.

Are players using it for an edge? Of course. But its seen similar to say NA's use power supplements like BioSteel, or even something like Asprin.
 
ValeriKamensky said:
I can`t imagine that only U18 guys take meldonium. Obviously pro hockey players take meldonium too. IIHF WC in Moscow/SPB will begin soon, and what Tretyjak says in May? "We send U17 team, this is our tactical decision?"
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KHL has cooperation with WADA on drug tests, so I think we would already hear if anything would be wrong there. Also Lada team doctor recently said that he stopped giving meldonium in October and he expects that other doctors did the same (I assume that KHL pushed that at that time). Anyway, if things somehow will go wrong here, it is always possible to make a NA-based team, but I think this scenario is unlikely to happen.

ValeriKamensky said:
I think, terrible end is better than horrow without end. If they tell the truth now, it will begin to change. I mean separation old marasmic soviet people like Tretyak from russian hockey.
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You would earn many plusses at sports.ru for a comment like that. :sarcasm:
 
These current u17s will be well prepared for future international competitions thanks to this exposure.
 
Namejs said:
Russian U17 players are not better at this point and time. They have more potential and they're more talented in principle, but they're not actually better than 18-year-old Latvians.
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Not only are they better, this squad will still have several 18 years olds on it, like Sergachev and a couple of other CHLers.
 
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