Blue Jays Discussion: End of the Hand

[BlueForever75]

I thought I heard somewhere if the Jays and Yankees ended up tied there would be a tiebreaker game that would be played in Toronto due to their head to head record.

 

[nilan30]

Yeah, that would be fine too. But I think he would have at least some value in an offseason trade, and for now he at least makes it more feasible to DH Kirk when Jansen is catching.

I've always been a little confused around DHs and their ability to move into a position or get pinch hit/run for in a game.

Say Kirk is DHing and Jansen is catching (and McGuire is not on the roster). Jansen gets a hit and they pinch run Dyson for him. Can Kirk move to catcher and Dyson become the DH?

What if in the above lineup Kirk gets a hit and Dyson runs for him. Does Dyson become the DH here or do they lose the DH spot and now the pitcher has to hit?

I know there is a scenario where you lose your DH but I'm not sure what that scenario is. I don't think it happens much because how often would you pinch hit for a DH? Maybe Pinch run. But I could see more situations where a DH could be moved into a position if need be.

 

[hockeywiz542]

I thought I heard somewhere if the Jays and Yankees ended up tied there would be a tiebreaker game that would be played in Toronto due to their head to head record.

 

[phillipmike]

Assuming they line it up correctly, I'd take the two chances on the road with Berrios and Ray.

This all seems dumb though. You're doing all this...just to set up another WC game?

Been saying this for years, this system is completely idiotic.

Play multiple do or die games to determine who gets to play in another do or die game?

 

[Discoverer]

I've always been a little confused around DHs and their ability to move into a position or get pinch hit/run for in a game.

Say Kirk is DHing and Jansen is catching (and McGuire is not on the roster). Jansen gets a hit and they pinch run Dyson for him. Can Kirk move to catcher and Dyson become the DH?

What if in the above lineup Kirk gets a hit and Dyson runs for him. Does Dyson become the DH here or do they lose the DH spot and now the pitcher has to hit?

I know there is a scenario where you lose your DH but I'm not sure what that scenario is. I don't think it happens much because how often would you pinch hit for a DH? Maybe Pinch run. But I could see more situations where a DH could be moved into a position if need be.

If you replace the DH, nothing happens. The player coming into the game becomes the DH.

If you move the DH to a position, you lose the DH. So in your first scenario: Jansen is catching, Kirk is DH. Dyson comes in to run for Jansen, then Kirk moves to catcher. Kirk and Dyson can't just switch the catcher/DH positions... Kirk would move to catcher, Dyson would be out of the game, and the DH spot would be replaced by the pitcher for the rest of the game.

 

[Discoverer]

Been saying this for years, this system is completely idiotic.

Play multiple do or die games to determine who gets to play in another do or die game?

Yeah, we've had this conversation plenty of times. I still think do-or-die games are a whole lot of fun.

 

[Kurtz]

Alright, I have to admit that the window has opened just a crack. It would take a mad heater by Vlad and this Ohtani swoon to continue for the rest of the season, but, well..

 

[The Iceman]

The mostinteresting is the 3 way tie.

If there is a 3 way tie Toronto will have the option of playing on the road-double knockout. If they lose the 1st game they play a 2nd game.
or
play a 1 game winner advances game at home against the winner of presumably Boston-NYY

 

[Lightsol]

Alright, I have to admit that the window has opened just a crack. It would take a mad heater by Vlad and this Ohtani swoon to continue for the rest of the season, but, well..

"He's the Most Valuable Player in the AL! He's so valuable, that the team stopped using him to prevent his averages from dropping!"

 

[Bjindaho]

The mostinteresting is the 3 way tie.

If there is a 3 way tie Toronto will have the option of playing on the road-double knockout. If they lose the 1st game they play a 2nd game.
or
play a 1 game winner advances game at home against the winner of presumably Boston-NYY

Loser of Boston-NYY. Winner gets in automatically.

 

[Kurtz]

The mostinteresting is the 3 way tie.

If there is a 3 way tie Toronto will have the option of playing on the road-double knockout. If they lose the 1st game they play a 2nd game.
or
play a 1 game winner advances game at home against the winner of presumably Boston-NYY

Historically, the home team wins 54% of the time. So without knowing the pitching matchups, you're looking at us having a 71% chance to win at least one game in the first scenario, and only a 54% chance in the second scenario. So have to go with scenario #1 quite easily.

Off course the caveat here is that in the first scenario we are likely facing Cole and Sale/Eovaldi, and in the 2nd scenario perhaps not, so that would bring the odds much closer.

 

[Vaughan Cunningham]

Who do you keep out of Semien or Ray? Hey can’t keep them both can they? I go with the arm myself, but it’s not an easy decision. Semien has had an outstanding year and has fit this team like a glove.

 

[Discoverer]

Historically, the home team wins 54% of the time. So without knowing the pitching matchups, you're looking at us having a 71% chance to win at least one game in the first scenario, and only a 54% chance in the second scenario. So have to go with scenario #1 quite easily.

Off course the caveat here is that in the first scenario we are likely facing Cole and Sale/Eovaldi, and in the 2nd scenario perhaps not, so that would bring the odds much closer.

Just wait until Rogers tells them to take the one home game scenario so they get some guaranteed revenue.

 

[rojac]

I'll ask the same question about this MVP nonsense that I always ask about these individual awards. Do you really value the opinions of the BBWAA that much to care about who they think is the MVP or the best pitcher or whatever? Of course, given how much people argue with random nobodies on this board about their opinions, I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Bjindaho]

I'll ask the same question about this MVP nonsense that I always ask about these individual awards. Do you really value the opinions of the BBWAA that much to care about who they think is the MVP or the best pitcher or whatever? Of course, given how much people argue with random nobodies on this board about their opinions, I shouldn't be surprised.

The sad truth is that their opinions can actually determine whether someone makes the HOF.

 

[The Iceman]

Just wait until Rogers tells them to take the one home game scenario so they get some guaranteed revenue.

Kurtz touches on a good point.
Would you rather have Ray against Cole on the road. And possibly Berrios against Sale on the road.
or
Ray at home against NYY #2 SP/Redsox #2 SP with the high leverage BP guys also used.
I think the odds might be closer than we think.

 

[theaub]

Historically, the home team wins 54% of the time. So without knowing the pitching matchups, you're looking at us having a 71% chance to win at least one game in the first scenario, and only a 54% chance in the second scenario. So have to go with scenario #1 quite easily.

Off course the caveat here is that in the first scenario we are likely facing Cole and Sale/Eovaldi, and in the 2nd scenario perhaps not, so that would bring the odds much closer.

While this is all dumb and I should definitely be doing something better with my day, I kind of see the argument for C. There's five potential scenarios in play that get you to the wildcard game (home team in CAPS for the first two games). I think C allows you to set up your pitching staff (aka Ray on Tuesday, Berrios on Wednesday) and lets you sit at home and wait for some team to come in off of what will obviously be a huge emotional loss with it being Yanks/Red Sox et al. The idea that you can beat Boston on the Monday and then just have to play them again in Fenway on the Wednesday is a bit off.

Although this leads to my next question. If there are technically regular season games, does that mean that a Jays win in Boston on the Monday would even the season series at 10-10? Because then it goes to AL East record as the second tiebreaker (both BOS/TOR at 37-30), and if there's a scenario where winning in Boston guarantees you host the WC game then you 100% take B.

"B", win Game 1
Monday: tor > BOS
Tuesday: bos > NYY
Wednesday (WC): TOR at BOS

"B", win Game 1
Monday: tor > BOS
Tuesday: NYY > bos
Wednesday (WC): NYY at TOR

"B", lose Game 1
Monday: BOS > tor
Tuesday: tor > NYY
Wednesday (WC): TOR at BOS

"C", BOS wins Game 1
Monday: BOS > nyy
Tuesday: TOR > nyy
Wednesday (WC): TOR at BOS

"C", NYY wins Game 1
Monday: nyy > BOS
Tuesday: TOR > bos
Wednesday (WC): NYY at TOR

 

[Discoverer]

I'll ask the same question about this MVP nonsense that I always ask about these individual awards. Do you really value the opinions of the BBWAA that much to care about who they think is the MVP or the best pitcher or whatever? Of course, given how much people argue with random nobodies on this board about their opinions, I shouldn't be surprised.

Sometimes seeing the players you watch all the time get rewarded with awards is fun. Sometimes discussing those awards and the merits of different candidates is fun, too.

But, I mean... literally the entire point of a message board like this is to discuss stuff with random nobodies.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Kurtz touches on a good point.
Would you rather have Ray against Cole on the road. And possibly Berrios against Sale on the road.
or
Ray at home against NYY #2 SP/Redsox #2 SP with the high leverage BP guys also used.
I think the odds might be closer than we think.

In a 3 way tie scenario all 3 teams might not have their aces lined up because they're fighting until the last day to make it. The Jays could line up Ray for the WC game by going every 5 days, but if you're in a spot where they're lined up for one of the final 3 games of the season you're not skipping them to have them pitch a tiebreaker or WC game when you might miss by losing on the last day.

What's the schedule for a multi-tiebreaker scenario? I can't imagine they're having days off and scheduling tiebreaker 1 on the normal WC day putting themselves 2 days behind. I would guess the first TB would be the very 1st day after the season and if the Jays lined up Ray for the WC he wouldn't be ready for tiebreaker 1 anyway

 

[theaub]

Not sure if this was posted before, but this is a fantastic article

Inside the breathtaking rise of Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

 

[phillipmike]

Yeah, we've had this conversation plenty of times. I still think do-or-die games are a whole lot of fun.

I think so too. I see value in them if you are determining who gets in if the next round is a series but if its another do or die, I think its a bit of overkill. I rather not have them at all but i understand why people like them.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Yeah, we've had this conversation plenty of times. I still think do-or-die games are a whole lot of fun.

In a 3 way tiebreaker the first game isn't do or die anyway. 2 do or die games is the most you're getting regardless if you do it the current way or give Team A the road WC game automatically and have the other 2 face off to see who's hosting the WC game.

 

[Cloned]

Hoping Baltimore somehow wins tonight. Ugh.

 

[The Nemesis]

Hoping Baltimore somehow wins tonight. Ugh.

 

[TopChedder]

Hoping Baltimore somehow wins tonight. Ugh.

It would be great but the Jankees have magic up their arses like the Red Sox when they smell playoffs, it's in the DNA.