Player Discussion: Ehlers

[Adam da bomb]

Last playoffs may have been the first time he's ever back checked. He isn't exactly the golden child of 2 way play or at 5v5 during regular season. Both players have their warts.

Both do. Would never argue that they don’t or that he is a two-player.

 

[Jet]

Last playoffs may have been the first time he's ever back checked. He isn't exactly the golden child of 2 way play or at 5v5 during regular season. Both players have their warts.

Why do we keep expecting Connor to become some sort of defensive God? Stanley Cup champion teams have had players like Connor throughout history - a pure offensive talent who just produces.

The guy is a machine - if we are pointing fingers he has to be one of the very last guys to critique.

I think he showed a real defensive effort last playoffs, and at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for.

The guy stays healthy and doesn't go into horrific slumps. It's not his fault our coaches to this point haven't found a way to insulate him defensively - they put him with a guy in Schiefele who can play well defensively when his give a shit meter isn't broken.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wow , you really think this? Connor was the reason finishing 4th in the NHL was so bad? When Ehlers shows up for us in the playoffs that will be nice, 4 goals in 37 playoff games is not first line players numbers.

That post was a little over the top. But breaking up that line was not a good idea.

Why should Ehlers produce 1st line player numbers? He wasn't playing 1st line minutes. What were his linemates producing in those 37 games? Just curious.

We all know that Ehlers has failed to produce in the PO but I think far too much is made of it considering the performance of the whole team and coaches.

Was that great defense or god like goaltending?
Helly made our D look better than it was.

Well ... that plus team D (most of the team). I don't think it was our stellar D corps.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have no problem blaming ANYONE whose playoff production drops by 50% from their regular season production

Ehlers regular season: 0.71 points per game
Ehlers playoffs: 0.37 points per game

This whole "well, other players sucked too" doesn't absolve Ehlers. And I don't think anyone is saying that it's all on him. But he (and his fans) should own his role in it

Yes. But lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Buffdog]

Yes. But lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm with you. I'd consider myself the opposite of most fans here. I enjoy the ride of the regular season and put less emphasis on playoff failures

I enjoy watching Nik 70-80 times per season and laying a few eggs in the playoffs doesn't change that. I think the same with Helle

But they definitely lay those eggs

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why do we keep expecting Connor to become some sort of defensive God? Stanley Cup champion teams have had players like Connor throughout history - a pure offensive talent who just produces.

The guy is a machine - if we are pointing fingers he has to be one of the very last guys to critique.

I think he showed a real defensive effort last playoffs, and at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for.

The guy stays healthy and doesn't go into horrific slumps. It's not his fault our coaches to this point haven't found a way to insulate him defensively - they put him with a guy in Schiefele who can play well defensively when his give a shit meter isn't broken.

Nobody expects Connor to become any kind of defensive god. Just less of a black hole would be good. Ehlers is much better defensively but he is still way short of being a defensive god. Mostly, the difference is simply that Ehlers tries a little. Credit where due, I think KC did try in this year's PO and he was better than usual. I don't think that was true in previous POs.

Yes, he stays healthy. He avoids contact. He's had slumps too, though I think he is less streaky than many offensive players.

Playing him with Scheifele is a problem. Both have played better apart.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I have no problem blaming ANYONE whose playoff production drops by 50% from their regular season production

Ehlers regular season: 0.71 points per game
Ehlers playoffs: 0.37 points per game

This whole "well, other players sucked too" doesn't absolve Ehlers. And I don't think anyone is saying that it's all on him. But he (and his fans) should own his role in it

I think his fans do, the whole sucking in the playoffs is 90% Ehlers, 90% Helle & 92% Pionk

The other 90% is equitable
Seems like Ehlers gets ripped more than most ( I know this is an Ehlers thread )

 

[Jets 31]

I think his fans do, the whole sucking in the playoffs is 90% Ehlers, 90% Helle & 92% Pionk

The other 90% is equitable
Seems like Ehlers gets ripped more than most ( I know this is an Ehlers thread )

Actually i would say Scheifele and Connor get ripped the most and it's not even close. All 3 players have their warts but all 3 are still very good players.

 

[10Ducky10]

What were his linemates producing in those 37 games? Just curious.

We all know that Ehlers has failed to produce in the PO but I think far too much is made of it considering the performance of the whole team and coaches.



Well ... that plus team D (most of the team). I don't think it was our stellar D corps.

Stastny scored 15 points in 17 playoff games in 2018.
Ehlers has 14 points in his playoff career.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Stastny scored 15 points in 17 playoff games in 2018.
Ehlers has 14 points in his playoff career.

Off topic but I think not ponying up for Stastny's next contract will go down as Chevy's biggest miss. He was a perfect fit, and Chevy spent years and a ton of assets following that trying to replicate him. In the end he traded for the back end of the deal anyway.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Stastny scored 15 points in 17 playoff games in 2018.
Ehlers has 14 points in his playoff career.

And Ehlers had half of his career total pts in that 18 PO run too. The only time Jets have been a decent team in the PO.

 

[Flair Hay]

Off topic but I think not ponying up for Stastny's next contract will go down as Chevy's biggest miss. He was a perfect fit, and Chevy spent years and a ton of assets following that trying to replicate him. In the end he traded for the back end of the deal anyway.

It seemed like at the time he really did go hard and all Vegas had to do was get close and he was going there. But yeah in hindsight we could have paid him 2 mil a year more and it would have been worth it just to have him for 2019

 

[Flair Hay]

I have no problem blaming ANYONE whose playoff production drops by 50% from their regular season production

Ehlers regular season: 0.71 points per game
Ehlers playoffs: 0.37 points per game

This whole "well, other players sucked too" doesn't absolve Ehlers. And I don't think anyone is saying that it's all on him. But he (and his fans) should own his role in it

This is totally fair. Ehlers needs to adapt his style to be more effective in the playoffs for sure. I still think as a more experienced player that can or even should happen. But there is no denying he has been our most disappointing playoff performer.

 

[10Ducky10]

And Ehlers had half of his career total pts in that 18 PO run too. The only time Jets have been a decent team in the PO.

Which means that Stastny outscored by more than double.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Which means that Stastny outscored by more than double.

Yes.

I'm not trying to say that Ehlers has been a PO success. No one is. So why do you feel the need to keep pounding away at it?

 

[10Ducky10]

Yes.

I'm not trying to say that Ehlers has been a PO success. No one is. So why do you feel the need to keep pounding away at it?

You said, "What were his linemates producing in those 37 games? Just curious."

I was just replying.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You said, "What were his linemates producing in those 37 games? Just curious."

I was just replying.

Got it.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

What were his linemates producing in those 37 games? Just curious.

We all know that Ehlers has failed to produce in the PO but I think far too much is made of it considering the performance of the whole team and coaches.

They weren't producing. I looked this up around June.

He's the line-driver.

Nobody expects Connor to become any kind of defensive god. Just less of a black hole would be good. Ehlers is much better defensively but he is still way short of being a defensive god. Mostly, the difference is simply that Ehlers tries a little.

Neither player has solid defensive awareness in their own zone. People like massaging Ehler's defensive ability in his own end with his transition effectiveness. Even one of his fans here, called out another poster when he called him "excellent" defensively.

When he isn't able to get off of the ice fast enough, and he's hemmed in his own zone, he's very similar to Kyle Connor (yet actually gets in the way more which I think pisses off his coaches and teammates more than people would assume).

He's better defensively than KFC, congratulations. That's one helluva threshold to eclipse. I hope that his agent is bringing that up in future negotiations.

And Ehlers had half of his career total pts in that 18 PO run too. The only time Jets have been a decent team in the PO.

You're suggesting that the reason they were decent, was because of Ehlers' play in the playoffs in 2018. Where would people rank his importance to everything that was going on that year, relative to everyone else in the line-up? We sure could have used him vs Vegas (1 assist in a loss, in the 4 games that he played).

Yes.

I'm not trying to say that Ehlers has been a PO success. No one is. So why do you feel the need to keep pounding away at it?

Why don't you call it what it is, a failure. He hasn't been average. By his standards, he's been bad/awful.

He wasn't the main reason we lost this year. He's one of the many reason we lost this year, and since 2018, he's likely the #1 culprit over that span. Helle has had positive moments, but with his massive importance to the team (more than anyone else), I could understand people thinking that it's him at #1.

For all of the flack that he takes, Scheifele has probably been 2.0's best playoff performer over the years.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They weren't producing. I looked this up around June.

He's the line-driver.

Yes, that is his role. But I don't think that means putting it all on him when the line goes dry. That is setting the bar pretty low for his linemates.

Neither player has solid defensive awareness in their own zone. People like massaging Ehler's defensive ability in his own end with his transition effectiveness. Even one of his fans here, called out another poster when he called him "excellent" defensively.

When he isn't able to get off of the ice fast enough, and he's hemmed in his own zone, he's very similar to Kyle Connor (yet actually gets in the way more which I think pisses off his coaches and teammates more than people would assume).

He's better defensively than KFC, congratulations. That's one helluva threshold to eclipse. I hope that his agent is bringing that up in future negotiations.

He is not an excellent player defensively. He is adequate. Being better than KC is a low bar, but he is quite a bit better.

You're suggesting that the reason they were decent, was because of Ehlers' play in the playoffs in 2018. Where would people rank his importance to everything that was going on that year, relative to everyone else in the line-up? We sure could have used him vs Vegas (1 assist in a loss, in the 4 games that he played).

I didn't suggest that.

Why don't you call it what it is, a failure. He hasn't been average. By his standards, he's been bad/awful.

He wasn't the main reason we lost this year. He's one of the many reason we lost this year, and since 2018, he's likely the #1 culprit over that span. Helle has had positive moments, but with his massive importance to the team (more than anyone else), I could understand people thinking that it's him at #1.

For all of the flack that he takes, Scheifele has probably been 2.0's best playoff performer over the years.

I've never said he was good in the PO to date. I have gone further, I concede that he has been bad. So have most of the other Jets.

Yes, Scheifele has been our best PO performer. That is another low bar.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Yes, that is his role. But I don't think that means putting it all on him when the line goes dry. That is setting the bar pretty low for his linemates.

He gets a lot of credit for his line's success in the regular season. Personally, I'm not putting it all on him. I am however, putting quite a bit of it on him - with consideration to his line - over the course of his playoff career.

You're not going anywhere in the playoffs without a 2nd (3rd) line that's not doing much of anything.

I didn't suggest that.

Okay. Here's the quote again, can you elaborate on what you meant here?

And Ehlers had half of his career total pts in that 18 PO run too. The only time Jets have been a decent team in the PO.

He is not an excellent player defensively. He is adequate. Being better than KC is a low bar, but he is quite a bit better.

I think Ehlers with Names looked good at times in their own end. Which is why I'm high on Names, because of his awareness, and adjusting to where he needs to be in relation to everyone else on his team. I find his defensive play to be synergistic, and kudos for Ehlers in those situations.

If KFC (big IF) plays like he did in the last couple of weeks/including playoffs, I don't think there's much of a gap. For me, Ehlers' defensive edge is almost entirely made-up in the neutral ice. He has a decent idea with how to position himself between the blue lines to help slow down the opposition's breakouts.

I've never said he was good in the PO to date. I have gone further, I concede that he has been bad. So have most of the other Jets.

So many of your posts, in and around the time of the playoffs, had mostly to do with Ehlers' wasn't placed in a position to succeed. He's been very successful on the 2nd line over the years, during the regular season. They add a 30-goal scorer (right idea, wrong player) and Monahan. In theory, that should be a good move, at least as a message to Ehlers that they're upgrading his linemates for the playoffs.

Perfetti was in a slump prior to the trade deadline, it also doesn't hurt to add a 30-goal scorer for insurance regardless. And they needed someone to win some faceoffs. Done, and done. Toffoli doesn't need the puck, he's just a finisher, which should be good for Ehlers who needs/wants the puck on his stick. As an aside, Toffoli has a bloated playoff reputation. Monahan actually puts up similar numbers in the regular season and in the playoffs.

You want Ehlers on the first line, you've said so many times (I get it), but I think he was in pretty good positions being on the 2nd line, not facing the top defensive units, and he's still playing with Top-6 forwards all of those years that the team made the playoffs. Laine and Stastny weren't chopped liver years ago.

And a lot of your posts during/after the playoffs, came off like it was (almost) everyone else's fault, naturally Ehlers wasn't going to do well.

Perhaps you said that he was bad, before, but this is the first time I'm reading it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Okay. Here's the quote again, can you elaborate on what you meant here?

I meant that Ehlers had a (relatively) good PO the same year that the team as a whole had a good PO. It is the best of a bad lot but the point is that it is a team game and teammates affect one another.

Every year I hope that this will be the year when the stars align for him and he has a productive PO. I'm still waiting. But he could have had an outstanding post-season this year and the Jets would still have been left in the dust by Avs.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He gets a lot of credit for his line's success in the regular season. Personally, I'm not putting it all on him. I am however, putting quite a bit of it on him - with consideration to his line - over the course of his playoff career.

You're not going anywhere in the playoffs without a 2nd (3rd) line that's not doing much of anything.



Okay. Here's the quote again, can you elaborate on what you meant here?




I think Ehlers with Names looked good at times in their own end. Which is why I'm high on Names, because of his awareness, and adjusting to where he needs to be in relation to everyone else on his team. I find his defensive play to be synergistic, and kudos for Ehlers in those situations.

If KFC (big IF) plays like he did in the last couple of weeks/including playoffs, I don't think there's much of a gap. For me, Ehlers' defensive edge is almost entirely made-up in the neutral ice. He has a decent idea with how to position himself between the blue lines to help slow down the opposition's breakouts.




So many of your posts, in and around the time of the playoffs, had mostly to do with Ehlers' wasn't placed in a position to succeed. He's been very successful on the 2nd line over the years, during the regular season. They add a 30-goal scorer (right idea, wrong player) and Monahan. In theory, that should be a good move, at least as a message to Ehlers that they're upgrading his linemates for the playoffs.

Perfetti was in a slump prior to the trade deadline, it also doesn't hurt to add a 30-goal scorer for insurance regardless. And they needed someone to win some faceoffs. Done, and done. Toffoli doesn't need the puck, he's just a finisher, which should be good for Ehlers who needs/wants the puck on his stick. As an aside, Toffoli has a bloated playoff reputation. Monahan actually puts up similar numbers in the regular season and in the playoffs.

You want Ehlers on the first line, you've said so many times (I get it), but I think he was in pretty good positions being on the 2nd line, not facing the top defensive units, and he's still playing with Top-6 forwards all of those years that the team made the playoffs. Laine and Stastny weren't chopped liver years ago.

And a lot of your posts during/after the playoffs, came off like it was (almost) everyone else's fault, naturally Ehlers wasn't going to do well.

Perhaps you said that he was bad, before, but this is the first time I'm reading it.

I've said several times that Ehlers has been bad in the PO, or if not bad at best unsuccessful. At best. I mean I have said both at different times.

I think there was an attempt at making the 2nd line better for the PO. It turned out badly. On the surface they added a PO experienced, legit 2C and a 30 G scorer. In hindsight you can see why they were a poor fit for Ehlers though.

It would probably have been better to go with Names and Perfetti there but that line might have been crushed (literally?) in PO hockey. Namestnikov's career PO resume reads 57 gms, 14 pts. Perfetti was last in a PO game in his D-1 year in the OHL. He was pretty good there, FWIW. Maybe Ehlers and Perfetti with Monahan would have clicked. That is all water under the bridge now. And it is hindsight.

I never absolved Ehlers of blame. Not at all. Was it everyone else's fault? Yes, it was. And it was Ehlers' fault. As one of the better players, it was more his fault than, say, Appleton's or Iafallo's. More is expected of him and he has simply failed to produce and that is on him. But I think too much is made of it in the context of the team failure. I might sing a different tune if most of the team played well and they almost won those 4 games they lost in a row, or if they managed to take the series to 7 games. If they lost by the amount that Niko underperformed it would be a different story. But they didn't. The whole team sucked.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Every year I hope that this will be the year when the stars align for him and he has a productive PO. I'm still waiting. But he could have had an outstanding post-season this year and the Jets would still have been left in the dust by Avs.

I agree.

They knew our weak points, and did what they needed to do.

 

[AlaskaJet]

IMHO, the guy has played injured a fair bit, maybe not as much as Wheels, but especially as seasons wore on.
Could be a variable here, as opposed to just being a weak player overall.

 

[DashingDane]

He gets a lot of credit for his line's success in the regular season. Personally, I'm not putting it all on him. I am however, putting quite a bit of it on him - with consideration to his line - over the course of his playoff career.

You're not going anywhere in the playoffs without a 2nd (3rd) line that's not doing much of anything.



Okay. Here's the quote again, can you elaborate on what you meant here?




I think Ehlers with Names looked good at times in their own end. Which is why I'm high on Names, because of his awareness, and adjusting to where he needs to be in relation to everyone else on his team. I find his defensive play to be synergistic, and kudos for Ehlers in those situations.

If KFC (big IF) plays like he did in the last couple of weeks/including playoffs, I don't think there's much of a gap. For me, Ehlers' defensive edge is almost entirely made-up in the neutral ice. He has a decent idea with how to position himself between the blue lines to help slow down the opposition's breakouts.




So many of your posts, in and around the time of the playoffs, had mostly to do with Ehlers' wasn't placed in a position to succeed. He's been very successful on the 2nd line over the years, during the regular season. They add a 30-goal scorer (right idea, wrong player) and Monahan. In theory, that should be a good move, at least as a message to Ehlers that they're upgrading his linemates for the playoffs.

Perfetti was in a slump prior to the trade deadline, it also doesn't hurt to add a 30-goal scorer for insurance regardless. And they needed someone to win some faceoffs. Done, and done. Toffoli doesn't need the puck, he's just a finisher, which should be good for Ehlers who needs/wants the puck on his stick. As an aside, Toffoli has a bloated playoff reputation. Monahan actually puts up similar numbers in the regular season and in the playoffs.

You want Ehlers on the first line, you've said so many times (I get it), but I think he was in pretty good positions being on the 2nd line, not facing the top defensive units, and he's still playing with Top-6 forwards all of those years that the team made the playoffs. Laine and Stastny weren't chopped liver years ago.

And a lot of your posts during/after the playoffs, came off like it was (almost) everyone else's fault, naturally Ehlers wasn't going to do well.

Perhaps you said that he was bad, before, but this is the first time I'm reading it.

In response to the bolded I 100% believe that is true over the span his Jets career. Doesn't mean other haven't been slighted as well but Ehlers has undoubtedly gotten less opportunity on both special teams and the 1st line comparatively to other offensive talents . Not saying there wasn't reasons (I don't know frequently injured he has been over the years without holding him out).

In terms of playoffs. No question he has under delivered.