Proposal: EDM / OTT

[Dust]

I think sometimes players are more valuable to a team than a return they might get on him. The third rounder doesn't really help the team, but apparently Watson is currently helping the team, so I can understand why they might not want to flip him just because they'd get a pick back that's higher than the one they paid for him.

I think that's a fair reason. You can't just have a team of young players/rookies, need some leadership/mentors on the team.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Ottawa wouldn't trade Watson for a third, but you're valuing Yamamoto's value to Ottawa at a second rounder. Good talk bud.

Yamamoto does very little for us. He's a fair depth scorer with upside and drive but is not the type of player Ottawa would target. Watson fills an important role for us, Yamamoto would not. The fact that he's a better and more talented player is irrelevant.

Yamamoto would return far more on the open market than Watson. Never said anything to the contrary. Ottawa would value Watson more than most teams - maybe more than any other team - but Ottawa would not be the team that values Yamamoto the most. Is that really difficult to understand?

Perfectly understandable if Yamo + for Brown isn't really what the Sens would look for. I don't think they should trade Brown at all unless he plans to test the market. I just don't think it makes sense for us either if we move both JP and Yamo, and I think edmonton should retain him for the same reasons I think Ottawa should retain brown.

If there aren't any good adds with Yamo for Brown thats fine too. Much as I like some of the players in Ottawa sometimes teams just don't make good trade partners.

Edit: In a vacuum I think the value is okay, but we all know real life isn't in a vaccuum. Think there's too many people trying to talk down players for whatever reason because they don't like the trade. That's fine to not like the trade but it doesn't have to be because player x doesn't have any value. Hate that about the trade boards.

Completely agree with you on all fronts.

I have been a HUGE supporter of Puljuarvi on the Sens boards and have gotten in many arguments with people who underrate him. I have wanted him for every. He would be a great addition to any team and I would deal Brown for him in a heart-beat, despite the fact that I am a huge fan of what Brown brings and don't want to trade him at all.

I never said anything critical about Yamamoto, I just don't think he's the type of player Ottawa would target at all unless he's a real buy-low option, which I am sure is not the case. Ottawa isn't looking to get younger, or trade key contributors for developing players, and Yamamoto just doesn't fit the template of the team we are trying to build. Doesn't mean there aren't a lot of teams who could benefit from Yamamoto and would love to add him... I just can't see Ottawa wanting him enough to be the team who offers up what Edmonton would want.

Can't see Jesse on the move in a deal like this. He's got the most potential of all the pieces involved, and he's still just 23. Connor Brown is probably on a lot of teams radar's, but I don't think this proposal makes Edmonton better.

Ottawa gave up a 4th round pick to get Austin Watson, you don't think they'd jump if they were offered a 3rd for him?

Ottawa gave up a 4th for Watson at a time when we were rebuilding and accumulating picks, he's done everything we could possibly ask of him, and now our GM is on record as saying he is more likely to deal out picks than bring in picks. We are far more likely to extend Watson than to deal him.

I think sometimes players are more valuable to a team than a return they might get on him. The third rounder doesn't really help the team, but apparently Watson is currently helping the team, so I can understand why they might not want to flip him just because they'd get a pick back that's higher than the one they paid for him.

Exactly this. Our coach trusts Watson, and the only priority right now is crafting a group of 20+ guys who the coach trusts as every day players. No interest in subtracting from that, no interest in spending assets on guys who might not add to that.

 

[LTIR]

Brown is a solid upgrade over Pool Party.

Brown is also a solid upgrade over Formenton.

See what I did there

 

[Sniped90]

The value is poor because you're not accounting for the extra cap space the Oilers get. That 3.500 could easily become 5.000+ which is something the Oilers have basically never had since signing Lucic.

It's what you do with that that evens things out. Could be the difference between signing Campbell instead of Koskinen 2.0

Never seen a bad deal when the team gets the best player in the deal AND unload salary but ok. Lol

Oilers arent giving you cap dumps though thats the issue. They are giving you players of value.

 

[Sniped90]

Lol come on.

Bad proposal but come on.

Watson definitely has value and won't be dealt. Agreed it's a bad proposal.

Just thought id add to the bad trade lol

 

[KevinRedkey]

Oilers arent giving you cap dumps though thats the issue. They are giving you players of value.

Only 11 teams in the entire NHL could take on Barrie without sending money back, and a good number of them wouldn't want him for free. He also needs to be dealt to free up space to keep one of Puljujarvi or Yamamoto (probably JP), so in the end you're likely losing Barrie and Yamamoto anyways. In this trade, you do that but you upgrade from Puljujarvi to C.Brown, and get a half decent 4th liner to go along with it. Plus that cap space can be used to get a goalie, or something else.

I get that people might not think it's fair or whatever - but a lot of people put no thought in to anything and just pretend like they know what's going on. I probably should have left out Yamamoto and Watson in hindsight, but I totally disagree that Barrie is worth much more than the difference between Puljujarvi and Brown + Cap Space.

 

[McDNicks17]

Only 11 teams in the entire NHL could take on Barrie without sending money back, and a good number of them wouldn't want him for free. He also needs to be dealt to free up space to keep one of Puljujarvi or Yamamoto (probably JP), so in the end you're likely losing Barrie and Yamamoto anyways. In this trade, you do that but you upgrade from Puljujarvi to C.Brown, and get a half decent 4th liner to go along with it. Plus that cap space can be used to get a goalie, or something else.

I get that people might not think it's fair or whatever - but a lot of people put no thought in to anything and just pretend like they know what's going on. I probably should have left out Yamamoto and Watson in hindsight, but I totally disagree that Barrie is worth much more than the difference between Puljujarvi and Brown + Cap Space.

Basically everything in these two sentences is wrong.

 

[TFHockey]

Barrie - 4.500
Puljujarvi - 1.175 RFA
Yamamoto - 1.175 RFA

for

C.Brown - 3.600
Watson - 1.500

If we are very conservative with RFA contracts...
Barrie (4.500) gets replaced by Broberg (0.900)
PoolParty (~2.750) gets replaced by C.Brown (3.600)
Yamamoto (~2.250) gets replaced by Watson (1.500)
Total saved: 3.500

Keep in mind the Oilers are likely to lose Yamamoto or PoolParty due to a cap crunch. This move should free up at least 3.500 for the Oilers once it's all said and done. Sens get 2 young guns they can use for the future, and a Dman significantly better than Mete, MDZ, and J.Brown.

Note: The Sens don't want to trade C.Brown, but I think his value is as high as it's going to get, and I don't see the re-signing a 30yr old C.Brown in 2yrs for 5.000+

This trade pretty heavily favors Ottawa. No chance from this Oilers fans perspective.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Basically everything in these two sentences is wrong.

Contact Us - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Should probably tell them they are wrong about something then.

 

[McDNicks17]

Contact Us - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Should probably tell them they are wrong about something then.

It has nothing to do with them and all to do with your assumptions.

The Oilers don't need to clear Barrie's cap without taking money back. Plenty of teams would take him for free lol. They don't need to move Barrie to sign Pulju and Yamo (see my other post you're apparently ignoring).

 

[Sniped90]

Only 11 teams in the entire NHL could take on Barrie without sending money back, and a good number of them wouldn't want him for free. He also needs to be dealt to free up space to keep one of Puljujarvi or Yamamoto (probably JP), so in the end you're likely losing Barrie and Yamamoto anyways. In this trade, you do that but you upgrade from Puljujarvi to C.Brown, and get a half decent 4th liner to go along with it. Plus that cap space can be used to get a goalie, or something else.

I get that people might not think it's fair or whatever - but a lot of people put no thought in to anything and just pretend like they know what's going on. I probably should have left out Yamamoto and Watson in hindsight, but I totally disagree that Barrie is worth much more than the difference between Puljujarvi and Brown + Cap Space.

What are you talking about barrie is a #1 pp qb. Sure hes not the greatest defensively but certainly not the worst in the league. Hes still a top 4 dman and theres plenty of teams that could use him. Oilers are running into the issue of they have a major need and any trade is going to be the gm trying to destroy holland because whether its to acquire a goalie with barrie involved or not itll be thought about making room for a goalie.

Depending on whether or not ghost wants to resign in zona theres one option among others.

Trade as a whole is horrible also you didnt just say brown is a upgrade from JP LMAO. jp is 5yrs younger than him and has made major strides this year you make it known jp is available there are way better options than brown. Last i checked he wasnt a top line player nor is he productive as one. We are not trading a first line player for a 4th liner smh if thats your logic please dont post a trade again.

 

[KevinRedkey]

It has nothing to do with them and all to do with your assumptions.

The Oilers don't need to clear Barrie's cap without taking money back. Plenty of teams would take him for free lol. They don't need to move Barrie to sign Pulju and Yamo (see my other post you're apparently ignoring).

I mean you literally argued that more than 11 teams could take on 4.500 which is flat out wrong according to capfriendly. That's on you - not me. I'm not going to argue literal facts with you just because you claim they are opinions.

As for your other post - it's full of IFs with no suggestion on how to actually achieve them. Make a proposal that achieves what you're aiming for if you want credibility.

 

[KevinRedkey]

What are you talking about barrie is a #1 pp qb. Sure hes not the greatest defensively but certainly not the worst in the league. Hes still a top 4 dman and theres plenty of teams that could use him. Oilers are running into the issue of they have a major need and any trade is going to be the gm trying to destroy holland because whether its to acquire a goalie with barrie involved or not itll be thought about making room for a goalie.

Depending on whether or not ghost wants to resign in zona theres one option among others.

Trade as a whole is horrible also you didnt just say brown is a upgrade from JP LMAO. jp is 5yrs younger than him and has made major strides this year you make it known jp is available there are way better options than brown. Last i checked he wasnt a top line player nor is he productive as one. We are not trading a first line player for a 4th liner smh if thats your logic please dont post a trade again.

 

[Clamshells]

Don't forget for less than a third of the cost, as well.

Weird place to fixate on. I'll take a 0.73 PPG for 3.6m over a 0.38 for 1.2m every single day of the season.

 

[McDNicks17]

I mean you literally argued that more than 11 teams could take on 4.500 which is flat out wrong according to capfriendly. That's on you - not me. I'm not going to argue literal facts with you just because you claim they are opinions.

As for your other post - it's full of IFs with no suggestion on how to actually achieve them. Make a proposal that achieves what you're aiming for if you want credibility.

It's technically true if you ignore the accrued cap hit, but completely irrelevant since the Oilers don't need to move Barrie without taking money back. That's why I said basically wrong.

Full of IFs? haha Ok. Kassian+ for someone making $1M. Boom. Now they've got $14M to sign Pulju and Yamo without even moving Barrie. Am I credible now? haha

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I mean you literally argued that more than 11 teams could take on 4.500 which is flat out wrong according to capfriendly. That's on you - not me. I'm not going to argue literal facts with you just because you claim they are opinions.

As for your other post - it's full of IFs with no suggestion on how to actually achieve them. Make a proposal that achieves what you're aiming for if you want credibility.

This is not how the cap works. You are ignoring two key factors: LTIR, and accrued caphit. Barrie's remaining caphit is $1,822,500 and the only teams that couldn't add that caphit are:

Tampa
Washington
Carolina
Toronto
St. Louis
Colorado

Example: Calgary Flames Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps - the relevant figures are
CURRENT CAP SPACE: $2,711,341 and DEADLINE CAP SPACE : $5,558,250

Also, some of the teams listed above (Carolina for example, who is just barely not able to afford Barrie) are carrying more players than they need to. Sending a player down or to Edmonton may allow them to add Barrie, too.

 

[Larry Hanson]

The Oilers won't have any issues keeping Pulju and Yamo in regards to the cap.

They've got $11M in space next year with Klefbom's LTIR. If they move Barrie and Kassian, they'll have close to $20M in space. If Smith ends up on LTIR, they'll have over $20M. Hell, they could have close to $30M in space if Keith retires.

The assumption that the Oilers will basically just give away Pulju and Yamo because of the cap makes this proposal really bad.

You follow the Oilers a lot closer than me but it would be interesting to see your math on this. According to Capfriendly the Oilers have 13M in cap space this offseason with Klefbom on LTIR.

With that 13M they need to sign 9 players.
Puljujarvi
Yamamoto
Starting goalie
4 more forwards
2 more defencemen

If they trade Barrie and/or Kassian they are going to have to take some salary back so that's not a perfect solution either.

 

[TFHockey]

You follow the Oilers a lot closer than me but it would be interesting to see your math on this. According to Capfriendly the Oilers have 13M in cap space this offseason with Klefbom on LTIR.

With that 13M they need to sign 9 players.
Puljujarvi
Yamamoto
Starting goalie
4 more forwards
2 more defencemen

If they trade Barrie and/or Kassian they are going to have to take some salary back so that's not a perfect solution either.

Just my two cents here, but the Oilers will get more back for Barrie than Kassian. I read that some teams were sniffing around Kassian this past off season. I was surprised by that. He can bring some scoring, fast skating and an edge to a line up but he does so very inconsistently. To me he is overpaid and isn't of great value. Still, if some team wants what he brings to the table the Oilers should move him.

Barrie plays a more important position and contributes a lot more to the scoresheet. This hasn't been a great year for Barrie but he is only 30 and signed for a very reasonable $4.5 Million for two more years. It is the emergence of Bouchard as our RHD power play guy that has made Barrie redundant. I don't think you can have two guys like that on the right side while having Nurse as your top pairing LHD. I am still trying to convince Holland to trade for Artem Zub. How am I trying to convince him you ask? By posting on here and tweeting about it. I've been wildly unsuccessful so far.

I might try telepathy next.

 

[McDNicks17]

You follow the Oilers a lot closer than me but it would be interesting to see your math on this. According to Capfriendly the Oilers have 13M in cap space this offseason with Klefbom on LTIR.

With that 13M they need to sign 9 players.
Puljujarvi
Yamamoto
Starting goalie
4 more forwards
2 more defencemen

If they trade Barrie and/or Kassian they are going to have to take some salary back so that's not a perfect solution either.

I think you've got Smith on LTIR too for the $13M.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Just my two cents here, but the Oilers will get more back for Barrie than Kassian. I read that some teams were sniffing around Kassian this past off season. I was surprised by that. He can bring some scoring, fast skating and an edge to a line up but he does so very inconsistently. To me he is overpaid and isn't of great value. Still, if some team wants what he brings to the table the Oilers should move him.

Barrie plays a more important position and contributes a lot more to the scoresheet. This hasn't been a great year for Barrie but he is only 30 and signed for a very reasonable $4.5 Million for two more years. It is the emergence of Bouchard as our RHD power play guy that has made Barrie redundant. I don't think you can have two guys like that on the right side while having Nurse as your top pairing LHD. I am still trying to convince Holland to trade for Artem Zub. How am I trying to convince him you ask? By posting on here and tweeting about it. I've been wildly unsuccessful so far.

I might try telepathy next.

We disagree on how much value those guys have but that isn't the point of what I'm saying. The post I responded to was saying the Oilers have lots of cap space to sign JP and KY but didn't mention that they also need to sign 7 other players including a starting goalie. The second point was that trading Barrie and/or Kassian is most likely going to require cap coming back so that isn't instant cap space either.

 

[Larry Hanson]

I think you've got Smith on LTIR too for the $13M.

I demoted the rookie goalie (can't remember his name) and activated Smith to get those numbers.

 

[McDNicks17]

We disagree on how much value those guys have but that isn't the point of what I'm saying. The post I responded to was saying the Oilers have lots of cap space to sign JP and KY but didn't mention that they also need to sign 7 other players including a starting goalie. The second point was that trading Barrie and/or Kassian is most likely going to require cap coming back so that isn't instant cap space either.

With Pulju and Yamo signed, they would need three guys for 13F. One of those would likely be Holloway. The other two would be a 12F and 13F. They won't cost much. They already have seven defensemen signed for next season.

They don't have to trade Barrie and Kassian without any salary coming back. They mainly just need to move Barrie's money for forward or goaltending. An example being a pretty popular proposal of a deal around Barrie and Varlamov.

There's enough wiggle room to ice a full roster with Pulju/Yamo. Upgrading at goalie will depend on a Barrie/Kassian move. Depends on if Smith LTIRetires too.

 

[Sniped90]

Just my two cents here, but the Oilers will get more back for Barrie than Kassian. I read that some teams were sniffing around Kassian this past off season. I was surprised by that. He can bring some scoring, fast skating and an edge to a line up but he does so very inconsistently. To me he is overpaid and isn't of great value. Still, if some team wants what he brings to the table the Oilers should move him.

Barrie plays a more important position and contributes a lot more to the scoresheet. This hasn't been a great year for Barrie but he is only 30 and signed for a very reasonable $4.5 Million for two more years. It is the emergence of Bouchard as our RHD power play guy that has made Barrie redundant. I don't think you can have two guys like that on the right side while having Nurse as your top pairing LHD. I am still trying to convince Holland to trade for Artem Zub. How am I trying to convince him you ask? By posting on here and tweeting about it. I've been wildly unsuccessful so far.

I might try telepathy next.

NYR where sniffing until they got reeves and another team that was looking was pitts but idk if their still interested.

 

[Chayos]

It might create a hole, but the top end talent increases and the hole leftover may possibly be filled internally. Imagine getting Giordano and then calling up Holloway. Plus C. Brown, Watson, Holloway hitting people. Oilers would be a team to be reckoned with in the playoffs.

So which top end talent is increasing? I take Puljujarvi over both those players let alone adding Yamo. If you add in Barrie and his potential points value then it is a massive loss of talent actually. I will keep what we have and Seattle can keep Gio and you guys can keep Watson and Brown. We can still call up Holloway to what we have now we have increased our top end talent.

If there was a defenseman that we don't all hate for being a turd for 10 years in Calgary we can look at a deal but not for both our top 6 RW.

 

[Larry Hanson]

With Pulju and Yamo signed, they would need three guys for 13F. One of those would likely be Holloway. The other two would be a 12F and 13F. They won't cost much. They already have seven defensemen signed for next season.

They don't have to trade Barrie and Kassian without any salary coming back. They mainly just need to move Barrie's money for forward or goaltending. An example being a pretty popular proposal of a deal around Barrie and Varlamov.

There's enough wiggle room to ice a full roster with Pulju/Yamo. Upgrading at goalie will depend on a Barrie/Kassian move. Depends on if Smith LTIRetires too.

I have no idea how you are getting your numbers, you must have some rookies pencilled into the lineup or something. If you go on Capfriendly for next year, increase the cap by 1M, add Smith to the main team and demote the AHL guy that defaults as goalie, it shows 13M in cap space with a 14 man roster. That's with Klefbom on LTIR and not having signed JP/KY.

They don't have to trade Barrie and Kassian without any salary coming back. They mainly just need to move Barrie's money for forward or goaltending. An example being a pretty popular proposal of a deal around Barrie and Varlamov.

I haven't followed every thread but from what I've seen that is a lot more popular with Oiler fans than Isles fans.