Confirmed with Link: [EDM/DET] Yamamoto and Kostin for Future Considerations

[ManofSteel55]

You mean other than Kostin being the most thrilled to be here player on the ice almost any home game the duration of the time he was here? I've rarely seena player that was brought in communicate so much joy about being here during, before, and after games. BAsically any time seen. Something here doesn't add up and there had to be frustration with the abject lack of usage. The player wanted to play. The coaching staff for reasons unknown had other ideas.

My take is something soured at some point in playoffs. I can understand that from a player pov Kostin could be upset if he was. Heres a gamer, on a scoring tear, and he's not even seeing the ice. I'd be wondering too.

Only 3 Oilers forwards scored more goals than Kostin in playoffs and on an EV minute played basis kostin scored as much as anybody.

Kostin scoring this season prorated to around 17 goals. With any added toi at all hes' a 20something goal scorer on a full season. Kostin was also scratched games, again fro reasons unknown.

He also shot basically nearly 20% shooting percentage. That's not exactly sustainable.

I think the coaches didn't like his game away from the puck. Yes, he hit a lot and would fight, but he wasn't good defensively and seemed out of position a lot. Things young guys might be able to overcome, but if the coaches just didn't like his positioning and hockey IQ, then it would explain his low ice time and scratches. They obviously never trusted him to kill penalties. I would have liked to have seen him in a scoring role more often.

 

[guymez]

Thanks for the time and reply. Just disappointed that we lost my favorite forward acquisition since Pat Maroon. I Loved Klim Kostin here. Was such a constant joy to see him on and off the ice. I'll probably take some time to look at it different ways. We'll see what the Dollar amount pans out to be in Detroit or elsehere. But again I loved this guy. So many sad moments being an Edmonton sports fan in recent decades.

I hear that.
I liked Kostin too especially as a personality. He did have a lot of flaws in his game though (not to mention the outlier sh%) and for some off reason he was going to try and squeeze the Oilers. Bad advice?
As much as I liked him I just dont think that he was worth the money he was looking for.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I would too.
I really like the player and being that he had ample time to recover from his injury I think that there is a very good chance the Oilers get a high quality player for nothing.
Creating room for Brown by not overpaying a limited player like Kostin is an easy choice to make IMO.

Why do you conclude Kostin is such a limited player? First round pick, confirmed talent, excellent shot on quick release, can play so many roles and he's an incredible banger on top. How is that limited? We just finished parking a guy like Yams on topsix constantly who WAS limited. Yams has not had a shot worth worrying about anytime in his career. Kostin wasn't just scoring at 19% its so common that his shots were being very difficult, and labeled shots. The guy was in stride hitting shot, scoring, from even range and just picking spots.

People thought Maroon was limited here until he scored 27goals. Than they still thought it...

I dunno. End of the day we love some players and not others. Kind of nature of being a fan.

 

[McDoused]

You mean other than Kostin being the most thrilled to be here player on the ice almost any home game the duration of the time he was here? I've rarely seena player that was brought in communicate so much joy about being here during, before, and after games. BAsically any time seen. Something here doesn't add up and there had to be frustration with the abject lack of usage. The player wanted to play. The coaching staff for reasons unknown had other ideas.

My take is something soured at some point in playoffs. I can understand that from a player pov Kostin could be upset if he was. Heres a gamer, on a scoring tear, and he's not even seeing the ice. I'd be wondering too.

Only 3 Oilers forwards scored more goals than Kostin in playoffs and on an EV minute played basis kostin scored as much as anybody.

Kostin scoring this season prorated to around 17 goals. With any added toi at all hes' a 20something goal scorer on a full season. Kostin was also scratched games, again fro reasons unknown.

I dont disagree with you. I liked Kostin and wanted him to sign here but the numbers had to make sense.

One of the scouts today said something that resonated with me. He basically said they wanted players that were willing to learn. Its not always about skill but its realizing that they dont know everything and they are willing to work on their game to make the team better.

I dont doubt Kostins skill level but I do think their were some issues there that he wasnt willing to work on. Everyone wants to score goals but realistically hes a 4th liner who needs to do what the coaches are telling him to do in order to carve out a depth role.

We are also talking about playoffs where young guys typically see less icetime. Let's not pretend that Kostin didnt take a few stupid penalties when the coaching staff were trying to hold everyone accountable. I love the passion but he has to reign it in and learn.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Brown is a UFA so the Capitals have little to no leverage on the player. How can they 'shop' a player with 2 days left on his contract?

Regarding the ACL tear...with all due respect you are not in a position to make a definitive statement of his injury.

My understanding is that its a minimum of 6-8 months of rehab time to increase the chances of a complete recovery. Apparently the vast majority of re-injuries happen because the athlete did not put in the necessary time to properly rehab the injury. They came back too soon.
Brown has had the 6-8 month time frame and more if he needs it. There was no need to push things and come back early when his season was done.

As I said...if I am Holland I absolutely take the risk in signing a legit top 6 player like Brown to a short term incentive heavy contract.

And if he gets hurt he can be our "LTIR until the playoffs" guy, ha ha.

I dont disagree with you. I liked Kostin and wanted him to sign here but the numbers had to make sense.

One of the scouts today said something that resonated with me. He basically said they wanted players that were willing to learn. Its not always about skill but its realizing that they dont know everything and they are willing to work on their game to make the team better.

I dont doubt Kostins skill level but I do think their were some issues there that he wasnt willing to work on. Everyone wants to score goals but realistically hes a 4th liner who needs to do what the coaches are telling him to do in order to carve out a depth role.

We are also talking about playoffs where young guys typically see less icetime. Let's not pretend that Kostin didnt take a few stupid penalties when the coaching staff were trying to hold everyone accountable. I love the passion but he has to reign it in and learn.

It would make sense for Woodcroft to not like Kostin if they explicitly told him they wanted him to play smart enough to kill penalties and whatnot.

 

[McDoused]

Thanks for the time and reply. Just disappointed that we lost my favorite forward acquisition since Pat Maroon. I Loved Klim Kostin here. Was such a constant joy to see him on and off the ice. I'll probably take some time to look at it different ways. We'll see what the Dollar amount pans out to be in Detroit or elsehere. But again I loved this guy. So many sad moments being an Edmonton sports fan in recent decades.

I'm with you 100% on this. I think both Yamamoto and Kostin were both really well liked guys.

It sucks to see that it didnt work out here.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

More upset about Kostin than Yams. We don't win the LA series without his performances in G2 and G6. He made a difference out there, was found gold.

Granted $2mill price tag is a toug pill, was hoping there was a compromise number in there somewhere. I was impressed with the team's bottom 6 this year (everybody hit double digit goals I believe?). He brought great puck protection, had an awesome shot, mean streak, loved it here. Will be a missed piece imo.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He also shot basically nearly 20% shooting percentage. That's not exactly sustainable.

I think the coaches didn't like his game away from the puck. Yes, he hit a lot and would fight, but he wasn't good defensively and seemed out of position a lot. Things young guys might be able to overcome, but if the coaches just didn't like his positioning and hockey IQ, then it would explain his low ice time and scratches. They obviously never trusted him to kill penalties. I would have liked to have seen him in a scoring role more often.

Somebody posts a line and it suddenly becomes a fact. Kostin EVGA and GA/minute were extremely low.


TBH I think these are grapes of sour after the fact deductions. Theres like one instance in playoffs people can have issue with on a Kostin play and while everybody on this club was making errors out there. But one paid for it dearly barely seeing the ice again. Despite that one player scoring 3 huge playoff goals for us in the playoffs and being fairly critical in the LA series.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Thats fair, but we don't know all the details or if Kostin was told by the coaching staff to look at other options. judging from his usage, and especially late season in playoffs it seems clear coaches were looking off the play. All the stranger in that he was one of the leading playoff scorers for the club while hardly getting minutes.

Kostin could have recognized, and wouldn't be wrong, that he was somehow considered chopped shit by the coaching staff. you know what I think of the coaching staff.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

It’s possible but the player still pulled the “I’ll go play in Russia” schtick where he’d be paid less. Holland doesn’t have the time nor the cap space for that crap.

Enjoy Detroit, Omsk, or a water filled trench in Donetsk Oblast there Klim. You’re an idiot of epic proportions.

 

[guymez]

Why do you conclude Kostin is such a limited player? First round pick, confirmed talent, excellent shot on quick release, can play so many roles and he's an incredible banger on top. How is that limited? We just finished parking a guy like Yams on topsix constantly who WAS limited. Yams has not had a shot worth worrying about anytime in his career. Kostin wasn't just scoring at 19% its so common that his shots were being very difficult, and labeled shots. The guy was in stride hitting shot, scoring, from even range and just picking spots.

People thought Maroon was limited here until he scored 27goals. Than they still thought it...

I dunno. End of the day we love some players and not others. Kind of nature of being a fan.

Kostin left me disappointed with his defensive play. He was a liability out there far too often.
Too many times I was left wondering what the 'F' he was thinking.
Honestly I think that I was even more disappointed because he was the kind of player that you just want to see succeed.
You cant play him against elites (or even the 2nd tier players) so that leaves essentially the 4th line for Kostin.

So we have a player who can play limited 5x5 minutes and cant PK for me makes him expendable on this team. If the timeline was different and the team was trying to build something then I think he would be a better fit because he might yet become something.

Lastly...why on earth (if true) is he looking for $1.5-$2M? That suggests to me that his intent is to sign in Russia and the only thing that will keep him here is a huge overpay.
I think Holland had to let him go.

And if he gets hurt he can be our "LTIR until the playoffs" guy, ha ha.

LOL
How fitting would that be?!?!

 

[Drivesaitl]

I dont disagree with you. I liked Kostin and wanted him to sign here but the numbers had to make sense.

One of the scouts today said something that resonated with me. He basically said they wanted players that were willing to learn. Its not always about skill but its realizing that they dont know everything and they are willing to work on their game to make the team better.

I dont doubt Kostins skill level but I do think their were some issues there that he wasnt willing to work on. Everyone wants to score goals but realistically hes a 4th liner who needs to do what the coaches are telling him to do in order to carve out a depth role.

We are also talking about playoffs where young guys typically see less icetime. Let's not pretend that Kostin didnt take a few stupid penalties when the coaching staff were trying to hold everyone accountable. I love the passion but he has to reign it in and learn.

Nice post but the same coaching staff put Nurse out late in a game with Drasaitl shouting from the bench that he's OK, don't do anything out there. Drai recognized the danger and Nurse and Kane were undisciplined several of the game. Even Drai was spotting that, but coach said nothing, and did nothing. Nurse as you remember got suspended for what Drai even foresaw. Coach similarly did nothing when Desharnais was losing his shit on ice.

Thing is its very selective to single out a 23yr old player when several vets did far worse. Its not a good coaching look. I would think Holloway agrees with that as well. Short leash for some players. But again not a discernible line in sand for what is and isn't OK. I doubt it was adequately communicated.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Somebody posts a line and it suddenly becomes a fact. Kostin EVGA and GA/minute were extremely low.


TBH I think these are grapes of sour after the fact deductions. Theres like one instance in playoffs people can have issue with on a Kostin play and while everybody on this club was making errors out there. But one paid for it dearly barely seeing the ice again. Despite that one player scoring 3 huge playoff goals for us in the playoffs and being fairly critical in the LA series.

EVGA and GA/minute don't tell much of a story. Sorry, but you can't analytics your way into showing a guy is good defensively when he did a lot of the little things wrong out there so often. That's what the Pulujarvi fanboys did too. It isn't "after the fact deducations". It's what I saw of a guy who did a lot of things well out there, but a lot of small things not so well.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kostin left me disappointed with his defensive play. He was a liability out there far too often.
Too many times I was left wondering what the 'F' he was thinking.
Honestly I think that I was even more disappointed because he was the kind of player that you just want to see succeed.
You cant play him against elites (or even the 2nd tier players) so that leaves essentially the 4th line for Kostin.

So we have a player who can play limited 5x5 minutes and cant PK for me makes him expendable on this team. If the timeline was different and the team was trying to build something then I think he would be a better fit because he might yet become something.

Lastly...why on earth (if true) is he looking for $1.5-$2M? That suggests to me that his intent is to sign in Russia and the only thing that will keep him here is a huge overpay.
I think Holland had to let him go.


LOL
How fitting would that be?!?!

Kostin rarely had GA while out on ice. Again where is this coming from other than anecdotes. We could all detail selective plays of any player that went the wrong way. Fact is Kostin was rarely on ice for GA. He was solid in that regard. But one person said it so it just gets repeated. None of these concerns with Kostin defensive play was being expressed WHILE the team was playing. Seems retroactive.

Hard to see a +12 player with rare GA being a "liability" out there. Thats a bit extreme.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Nice post but the same coaching staff put Nurse out late in a game with Drasaitl shouting from the bench that he's OK, don't do anything out there. Drai recognized the danger and Nurse and Kane were undisciplined several of the game. Even Drai was spotting that, but coach said nothing, and did nothing. Nurse as you remember got suspended for what Drai even foresaw. Coach similarly did nothing when Desharnais was losing his shit on ice.

Thing is its very selective to single out a 23yr old player when several vets did far worse. Its not a good coaching look. I would think Holloway agrees with that as well. Short leash for some players. But again not a discernible line in sand for what is and isn't OK. I doubt it was adequately communicated.

Star players have a lot more rope than 4th liners that the coaches don't trust very much. Young guys should have a short leash.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Kostin rarely had GA while out on ice. Again where is this coming from other than anecdotes. We could all detail selective plays of any player that went the wrong way. Fact is Kostin was rarely on ice for GA. He was solid in that regard. But one person said it so it just gets repeated. None of these concerns with Kostin defensive play was being expressed WHILE the team was playing. Seems retroactive.

Hard to see a +12 player with rare GA being a "liability" out there. Thats a bit extreme.

I dunno, seems like our coaches saw it. He was never used in shut down scenarios. He was very sheltered. There's nothing extreme about that.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

There’s gonna be some ‘splainin to do if Kostin signs cheapish in Detroit. I think his agent overplayed his hand.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I dunno, seems like our coaches saw it. He was never used in shut down scenarios. He was very sheltered. There's nothing extreme about that.

I don't think a lot of our coaches if this isn't clear. I'd defer to Marchessault and others on what shit our coaching and game plan was. We lose despite of our immense talent.

I was never saying Kostin should be used in shutdown. I was saying the guy can score and gives goalies fits on most of his shots. Quick release laser with good aim.

 

[guymez]

Kostin rarely had GA while out on ice. Again where is this coming from other than anecdotes. We could all detail selective plays of any player that went the wrong way. Fact is Kostin was rarely on ice for GA. He was solid in that regard. But one person said it so it just gets repeated. None of these concerns with Kostin defensive play was being expressed WHILE the team was playing. Seems retroactive.

Hard to see a +12 player with rare GA being a "liability" out there. Thats a bit extreme.

My viewing of him as a player may not matter to you but it matters to me enough to trust what it is that I am seeing. I am trying to be as objective as I can.

You actually dont think that your biases are precluding you from being objective with this player?

Just curious...what do you think he was worth on a 2 year contract...for this team?

 

[Drivesaitl]

My viewing of him as a player may not matter to you but it matters to me enough to trust what it is that I am seeing. I am trying to be as objective as I can.

You actually dont think that your biases are precluding you from being objective with this player?

Just curious...what do you think he was worth on a 2 year contract...for this team?

I'd pay Kostin 1,5M on the play and intangibles package. I wasn't saying one of us is more objective than the other, I was saying we all have our spots. I loved the player, so quite possibly not being objective.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It’s possible but the player still pulled the “I’ll go play in Russia” schtick where he’d be paid less. Holland doesn’t have the time nor the cap space for that crap.

Enjoy Detroit, Omsk, or a water filled trench in Donetsk Oblast there Klim. You’re an idiot of epic proportions.

Often times I think its the agents. even more when it comes to players that are less completely fluent in English. We'll never likely know more details. Except where Kostin does sign and for how much.

 

[GOilers88]

Nah it doesn't, and several posters mentioned it. Kostin knew the coaching staff here had some kind of deluded issue with him. The fans loved him, the team and players loved him, but hard to get much done from the bench. After experiences in STL and Edm I can see Kostin being disappointed in his usage, and why wouldn't he be. Kid is a stud not getting played. Not a given its just about the money. What if Kostin signs in Detroit for around 1M?

To be fair no one really knows why his usage was limited by two different coaching staffs. I was a fan alongside yourself, but maybe there are reasons we as fans just aren’t privy to.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Star players have a lot more rope than 4th liners that the coaches don't trust very much. Young guys should have a short leash.

Short leash doesn't connote to no leash, and if it does none of those youngers are developing and getting the toi to do that here. In this same thread where all of Broberg, Kostin, Holloway etc were being continually parked, scratched, not played people are suggesting the answer is lavoie? What I'm suspecting is a coach that doesn't like younger players pure and simple. Which is a far cry in a short time from somebody that was coaching in the AHL. Its inexplicable, but hard not to see that young players aren't consistently getting chances here.

 

[guymez]

I'd pay Kostin 1,5M on the play and intangibles package. I wasn't saying one of us is more objective than the other, I was saying we all have our spots. I loved the player, so quite possibly not being objective.

I think that at this point in time on this team $1.5M is too much for what Kostin brings which is essentially sheltered bottom six 5x5 minutes.
BTW...I purposely didnt address the +/- stat you mentioned because its just not reliable in terms of gauging a player.

The team is obviously in win now mode and with the cap situation I just think the money is better spent on Conner Brown. A legit top 6 player with versatility (something Kostin is not) is a much better bang for the buck.

 

[McDNicks17]

At least we can settle the debate.

Pulju returned more in a trade therefore he was better all along.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be fair no one really knows why his usage was limited by two different coaching staffs. I was a fan alongside yourself, but maybe there are reasons we as fans just aren’t privy to.

This would make me feel better if I had any confidence in the coaching staff or the latest directions the STL Blues have taken over last couple seasons. STL losing this player was a gongshow move. we just repeated.

Could be something else. We'll never know. Or could be NHL being small minded once players are typecast by drafting org. Suspect the latter.