Friedman: Dylan Larkin requests trade, Part II

[SirloinUB]

I can't see Larkin playing during this, he will sit.

Matt Duchene didn't sit out when he requested a trade.

Sitting out would only drag things on for even longer.

 

[Grinner]

So Larkin loses money and gets a bad reputation across the league. What does he have to gain from sitting?

And how many players do you remember sitting out while actually under contract? I can remember one off the top of my head and it was over 20 years ago.

He doesn't need to sit out games
He only needs to half ass it when he's on the ice. It worked for Q. Hughes

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I can't see Larkin playing during this, he will sit.

Sitting doesn't really benefit anybody.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He doesn't need to sit out games
He only needs to half ass it when he's on the ice. It worked for Q. Hughes

If he makes it to the last quarter of the season would he have to quarter ass it? Because it's already customary for him to be half-assing it by March...

 

[dekelikekocur]

Thats simply false. Anyone who requests a trade, unless you are a McDavid tier player, isn't going to get full value.

Also, for the umpteenth million time, keeping him for years is the dumbest idea of all time. Not only do you piss off the player but you send a message to every current or future redwings player and that message isn't rosy.

Show me where all the players who have long term at cheap contract value have requested a trade and what the then trade resulted in. Drouin returned Serg for instance, Duchene landed the Avs a solid return.

I think you're so stuck in overvaluing your prospects and being mad at the wings for some perceived wrongdoing that you aren't thinking clearly.

 

[Paul4587]

He doesn't need to sit out games
He only needs to half ass it when he's on the ice. It worked for Q. Hughes

Hughes was 1.5 years away from free agency, the Canucks had to move him.

 

[Fatass]

Hughes was 1.5 years away from free agency, the Canucks had to move him.

Hughes was never staying in Van, regardless of how good the club was. Larkin would stay, wouldn’t he, if the club was better? Or does he, like Hughes just want out?

 

[quackquackquack]

Show me where all the players who have long term at cheap contract value have requested a trade and what the then trade resulted in. Drouin returned Serg for instance, Duchene landed the Avs a solid return.

I think you're so stuck in overvaluing your prospects and being mad at the wings for some perceived wrongdoing that you aren't thinking clearly.

lol this has nothing to do with the ducks offer. It has everything to do with wings fans expecting 4 first round picks. Thats ludicrous. Level set your expectations. Also, your GM has to decide if he wants to be competitive or rebuild.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If he makes it to the last quarter of the season would he have to quarter ass it? Because it's already customary for him to be half-assing it by March...

"Also, please give us some really good stuff for him."

 

[dgibb10]

Oh no. Dylan might walk around the locker room looking depressed...

... Which is nothing different from what he's done for the last decade lol.

Failing to understand this mentality that he's going to destroy the locker room. Like what the f*** is he doing, beating up the prospects for their lunch money? Spitting loogies in guys faces? Are we just worried that he's gonna run down the front office in front of other players? You don't think he wont do/hasn't done that regardless? He's either hated in the locker room or has friends there. If it's the latter, he's going to talk to them whether he's in the locker room or not.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the risk you take holding onto a 30 year old player. Every day he ages every month of his contract you waste his value goes down.

And do you think Larkin's production in an unhappy environment is going to flourish

A major injury, or just a decline in play and the value is in the toilet.

This is 30 year old JT miller. Better selke results, a similar contract to larkin, vastly more offensive production.

Half a season of rougher play (and he was still pacing at 70 points) and decline and all of a sudden his value is now a 1st+Chytil.

29 year old dougie hamilton. 74 point dman, 3 top 7 norris finishes in 4 years? Wow thats a valuable piece. 1 injury the next year and the trade value isn't much since then is it?

28 year old PK subban. 3rd in norris voting! but oops, 1 down year later and all he gets is 2 2nd round picks.

Or even lets look at a guy currently on the market, vinny trochek. What do you think his trade value would have been 2 years ago coming off a 77 point season at age 30 with 5 years at 5.6 million dollars on his contract? What do you think Trocheks value is now?

How about zibanejad? Do you think he fetches anything close now to what he would have 2 years ago? Heck it took just ONE down year in 24-25 for him to all of a sudden be a cap dump around here.

How bout Huberdeau? his value tanked real quick after that first year in calgary now didn't it?

 

[Rec T]

I can't see Larkin playing during this, he will sit.

I can pretty much guarantee you that, on the advice of his lawyer, agent, and accountant, on the first day of training camp or first mandatory team meeting, Larkin will be there with a big smile on his face and making the appropriate noises about being ready to play hard and to support the new captain in any way he can. Now he may not mean any of the words that come out of his mouth, but he'll be saying them... especially to any media that's around.

Now if SY wants to sit him and keep him away from the team, that's fine...but he's going to have to pay him his salary. If he tries not to pay him after he showed up when and where he was supposed to and ready to go, fulfilling his side of the contract... instantly grievance filed by the NHLPA which they will win. He has 8.7 million reasons to pretend to want to play for the team

Edit: rereading, you never mentioned not getting paid, only that he'd sit. So if you weren't implying that, sorry

 

[Grinner]

Hughes was 1.5 years away from free agency, the Canucks had to move him.

Did Hughes actually say he wanted to be traded or only that he wouldn't resign?

 

[jkutswings]

I mean honestly based on what they've been saying in these threads? Yeah

I saw a Red Wings fan say that 4 late 1sts was a terrible offer for Larkin in the last thread.

Picks aren't my preferred currency to begin with. I would take one blue chip prospect over half a dozen late first round picks. Detroit needs 20-25 year old players to realign the timeline around Seider and Raymond.

Now can they flip picks to get those players? Probably. But that's a Plan B, not a Plan A. So I'd much rather target a quality prospect than a quality pick, even if it means adding to Larkin.

 

[rynryn]

Did Hughes actually say he wanted to be traded or only that he wouldn't resign?

Wouldn't re-sign.

 

[Dotter]

I just listened to a podcast with Chris Osgood 'speculating' his thoughts. He doesn't have or reveal any inside knowledge, but he knows Yzerman very well.

He basically said the exact same things every credible reporter has said. Yzerman has a price, he won't get bullied, he will be patient, he is in no hurry, he will wait for Larkin to open up his trade list until he finds the offer he likes, basically if this turns into a game of chicken, yzerman won't flinch.

He said he doesn't expect any deal getting done before draft but it will be highly talked about

 

[jkutswings]

Larkin can open his list up.

This is something that can be objectively confirmed or refuted as negotiations progress.

It still isn't going to get these caliber of centerpieces you think are out there. It gives more options and allows Yzerman to pick prospects and roster players his scouting department is high on, but it's not going to suddenly have a bunch of teams offering core pieces.

It's gonna be the exact same tier of assets and style of packages, just with different names.

maybe its Zharovsky or But or McTavish instead of Yurov or Connelly.

the highest value centerpiece that's probably available actually belongs to florida in the form of 9th overall

This is all speculation. Depending on when he's traded and what details do or do not go public, we may never know which teams made what offers.

Now do I think it's more likely that teams offer something based around a Yurov level player than a premium prospect? Yes. But everybody here is just guessing at what each team will or won't offer, whether it's for just Larkin, or if Detroit adds, or if it ends up being a 3 team deal.

For all I know, this could turn into Larkin + Debrincat + other assets in a blockbuster that returns a haul of blue chip talent. Or it could go nowhere for 3 months and he's a healthy scratch to start the season. But none of us can make any definitive proclamations on behalf of anybody actually involved.

So feel free to speculate. But be honest that it's just speculation.

 

[dgibb10]

This is something that can be objectively confirmed or refuted as negotiations progress.


This is all speculation. Depending on when he's traded and what details do or do not go public, we may never know which teams made what offers.

Now do I think it's more likely that teams offer something based around a Yurov level player than a premium prospect? Yes. But everybody here is just guessing at what each team will or won't offer, whether it's for just Larkin, or if Detroit adds, or if it ends up being a 3 team deal.

For all I know, this could turn into Larkin + Debrincat + other assets in a blockbuster that returns a haul of blue chip talent. Or it could go nowhere for 3 months and he's a healthy scratch to start the season. But none of us can make any definitive proclamations on behalf of anybody actually involved.

So feel free to speculate. But be honest that it's just speculation.

Speculation based on 2 decades of NHL history that tells us what GMs do trade, and more importantly, what they don't trade.

And thankfully, we can look to robert thomas, who is a significantly younger, and better center to see what teams have been making their packages around. What pieces they've included, and what pieces have been off limits.

Lots of reporting on the subject

 

[jkutswings]

Speculation based on 2 decades of NHL history that tells us what GMs do trade, and more importantly, what they don't trade.

And thankfully, we can look to robert thomas, who is a significantly younger, and better center to see what teams have been making their packages around. What pieces they've included, and what pieces have been off limits.

Lots of reporting on the subject

The same Robert Thomas that isn't getting traded at all? I don't see how trade offers that aren't good enough would be a good indicator of anything.

Edit: And for the record, last TDL I wanted Detroit to deal the equivalent of four good first round picks to try to get Thomas. So I'm not buying the argument that a bunch of crappy trade offers that went nowhere will mean anything.

 

[dgibb10]

The same Robert Thomas that isn't getting traded at all? I don't see how trade offers that aren't good enough would be a good indicator of anything.

Trade offers indicate what teams are willing to pay for a version of larkin thats 26 instead of 30.

So you'd take those offers and make them smaller.

And more importantly than the value, is the centerpieces. You can see which players are going to be out there, and which players have been made untouchable.

Players that are untouchable for Thomas are certainly not going to become available for Larkin

 

[Hen Kolland]

Can we stop pretending like the vast majority of Wings fans in this thread are demanding that?

Yes, there are clowns in here that think it's a guarantee. Yes, we would all love to see a Desnoyers level player coming back for Larkin. Yes, it's highly unlikely. Yes, it's still possible.

Once again, the problem with Minnesota is they don't have much flexibility in what they can offer, and what they can offer is stuff we already have.

I think it's a little presumptive to say that it's highly unlikely. This guy in particular will never agree, but if Yzerman calls up a playoff team with aspirations of contending and says Larkin for your Desnoyers-tier prospect 1 for 1, I firmly believe the other GM is accepting it without a second thought. The thing is, Yzerman may be looking for multiple pieces, and that could be the hang up if we are looking at this particular tier. If Utah finds it hard to build a package with Desnoyers headlining, then there might just be a more valuable deal to be built, whether with Utah or with another organization.

I do think that it would behoove some posters here to read some of the reporting and theorizing being produced by people who are somewhat connected and have a better sense of what the cost would be. The fact that you don't see articles asking if Larkin could justify returning a single top prospect is rather telling

The NHL teams that need Dylan Larkin the most, and what they can trade to the Red Wings

Which teams should be the most aggressive in trading for Larkin, assuming he'll go there? Let's break it down.

www.nytimes.com

"The Ducks would likely be reluctant to part with top prospect Roger McQueen, but a package built around McTavish and defense prospect Stian Solberg could tempt Detroit."

What could the Red Wings get in a Dylan Larkin trade? Evaluating 6 potential returns

Larkin's no-movement clause is front and center, but these are some clear-cut contenders and teams with the need and assets to land him.

www.nytimes.com

"Detroit gets: F Tij Iginla, F Barrett Hayton, 2027 first-round pick
Utah gets: F Larkin
Pronman: Utah can clearly offer the most compelling package to Detroit, given its plethora of premium young assets. We didn’t include Caleb Desnoyers or Dmitri Simashev, as it would be tough to get Utah to include them, but center Cole Beaudoin could certainly be in this deal. Iginla is a legit projected top-six scorer, and Hayton is a quality NHL center."

"Detroit gets: G Jesper Wallstedt, F Danila Yurov, F Charlie Stramel
Minnesota gets: F Larkin, G Sebastian Cossa
Pronman: This is the most complicated package, but Minnesota’s best future asset is a goalie, while Detroit is already dealing with a hard decision on what to do with Cossa, who will be waiver eligible. This deal would also require a dose of humility from Detroit, which had its choice of the first-round goalies in 2021 and opted for Cossa.
Minnesota parts with three A-level young assets but gets one back in Cossa, who is a very good young goalie. Yurov and Stramel both project as long-term third-line centers or second-line wingers with different play styles: Yurov is more of a skill player, and Stramel is big and highly physical."

The Wild’s pursuit of Dylan Larkin faces one major obstacle: Trade capital

It makes all too much sense for the Wild to do whatever they can to make a trade. But it has to make sense for Wings GM Steve Yzerman, too.

www.nytimes.com

"But whether the Wild can pull off another blockbuster is a bit more complicated for one main reason:

They don’t have a ton of trade chips.

“You know how many teams are going to be in on Dylan Larkin?” said former NHL GM Craig Button, now TSN’s director of amateur scouting. “Here’s the problem for the Minnesota Wild. I don’t think they can get Dylan Larkin for what other teams are going to be able to offer Detroit. That’s the cold, hard reality.

“They don’t have the pieces. Too many other teams have the pieces. If I’m Steve Yzerman, it’s not worth it.”

The Wild exhausted a lot of their trade capital in the Hughes mega deal in mid-December, trading top prospect Zeev Buium, Marco Rossi, Liam Ohgren and their 2026 first-round pick. Sure, there are solid prospects left, like Charlie Stramel and Danila Yurov. But it’s debatable whether those are the kinds of chips that can get you somebody like Larkin on an affordable contract."

 

[ctmagic]

I was gonna start an over/under on number of posts before you dropped the phrase "Locker room cancer".

No need, Detroit fans do it enough.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Sweet is he traded yet!

Can’t wait to bully the losing side

What is the losing side of Anaheim

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

He's very good but man is he a bonehead or what. Zero self awareness on his own mistakes and then he wants to bail.

 

[MoneyManny]

Show me where all the players who have long term at cheap contract value have requested a trade and what the then trade resulted in. Drouin returned Serg for instance, Duchene landed the Avs a solid return.

I think you're so stuck in overvaluing your prospects and being mad at the wings for some perceived wrongdoing that you aren't thinking clearly.

Yeah sure. Any examples where the demandee had a full NMC and only waived for 3 clubs?

 

[eojsmada]

Yeah sure. Any examples where the demandee had a full NMC and only waived for 3 clubs?

We already know that his list has expanded a fair amount