lindholmie
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- Feb 22, 2015
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Lmao neither Ritchie or montour are B+ prospects. Plus they're not gonna get dumped to trade bieksa
Rumor: Ducks trying to unload a contract in order to re-sign Rakell/Lindholm
- Thread starter caley
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Lmao neither Ritchie or montour are B+ prospects. Plus they're not gonna get dumped to trade bieksa
dracom
Registered User
Bieksa is not going to waive his NMC. He wants to settle down with his family in Anaheim.
So because of a preseason pairing we are just going to ignore how he's actually been used the rest of his career up to last year? You can't call a healthy scratch anything but a 6/7. He is not nor has he EVER been a top 4. You're out of your mind if you think he's going to jump ahead of Marchenko or Big E as bad as he is but that says something about Smith as well. There's a better chance XO, Russo or Sproul surpass Smith than Smith moving into the top 4.
Big E and Kronwall getting worse does not mean Smith is getting any better nor does it add value to him for another team. Your homerism is showing.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
J. Jokinen
2017 2nd round pick
2018 3rd round pick (becomes a 2nd if FLA gets to 2017 ECF)
1 of C. Brickley/L. Shaw/K. Rau
C. Fowler
A. Cogliano
Ducks POV: Frees up $3million for Ducks to sign Lindholm and Rakell, gives a chance for one of the younger D-prospects like Theodore or Montour to make the team. Jokinen is a top 6LW and would probably repeat another 60pt year playing on a top line with Getz and/or Perry.
Panthers POV: Florida has the cap space, Fowler solidifies their top 4 defense giving Matheson time to develop. Cogliano and McCann could fight for that top 6 LW spot this year.
Fowler = Jokinen + 2018 conditional 3rd
Cogliano = 2017 2nd + prospect
Before Ducks fans rip my head off, YOU guys are the ones that are in cap problems and need the help. I think the value is fairly close but open to counter offers.
dracom
Registered User
J. Jokinen
2017 2nd round pick
2018 3rd round pick (becomes a 2nd if FLA gets to 2017 ECF)
1 of C. Brickley/L. Shaw/K. Rau
C. Fowler
A. Cogliano
Ducks POV: Frees up $3million for Ducks to sign Lindholm and Rakell, gives a chance for one of the younger D-prospects like Theodore or Montour to make the team. Jokinen is a top 6LW and would probably repeat another 60pt year playing on a top line with Getz and/or Perry.
Panthers POV: Florida has the cap space, Fowler solidifies their top 4 defense giving Matheson time to develop. Cogliano and McCann could fight for that top 6 LW spot this year.
Fowler = Jokinen + 2018 conditional 3rd
Cogliano = 2017 2nd + prospect
Before Ducks fans rip my head off, YOU guys are the ones that are in cap problems and need the help. I think the value is fairly close but open to counter offers.
Hard pass. Why are we trading a 24 year old #2 defenseman for a 33 year old winger making the same money as Fowler? The whole point in trading Fowler would be save cap to re-sign Lindholm and Rakell.
And trading Cogs just puts us the same position we're in now, a need for NHL quality LWers. Also, Cogs has a NTC which I think people keep forgetting so he's staying.
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Some people have to learn that cap space and low salaries are assets and if you need cap space you need to search for it early and not 2 weeks before the season starts when most teams maximized their cap situations already.
Waited too long and lost. Thank God hockey is only a game
dracom
Registered User
Some people have to learn that cap space and low salaries are assets and if you need cap space you need to search for it early and not 2 weeks before the season starts when most teams maximized their cap situations already.
Waited too long and lost. Thank God hockey is only a game
Why would the Ducks trade one of their best prospects just to save one million in cap space? Cap space is important, but not THAT important. People keep acting like we're Chicago who is up against the cap with players to re-sign, forgetting we still have 7ish million left plus Thompson going on LTIR once the season starts.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
Cap problems are forcing you to make hard decisions. Jokinen is a top 6LW right now on a steal of a contract. All our other top 6 are on long term big money contracts except for Jagr. You don't have any need for defense.
Again, I said I'm open to counter offers.
dracom
Registered User
We have 7ish million in cap space, with another 1.7 mil in cap relief when Thompson goes on LTIR. The cap situation isn't that horrendous that people are making it out to be. So there's no force making us take a player that doesn't really fit what we are asking for. A young cheap top 6 left winger for our young cheap #2 defensemen. Jokinen is fine, but trading for him doesn't really help with re-signing Lindholm and Rakell which would be the biggest reason we're trading Fowler.
Is this just another post where we have to accept an offer we don't like because of our cap situation? No thanks, we have gotten better offers from teams, offers that didn't include Cogs as well.
The Panthers don't have what we would want for Fowler.
Dudes. Before the ducks resort to drastic measures such as trading Ritchie just to unload a contract (the exact type of player they'd be looking for in a Fowler deal)......trading fowler for elc/futures....
Simon Despres carries 3.7m, has positive value as an asset, and can be traded with ease. With him traded for futures there's 10.5m of space for Rakell and Lindholm which is enough to fit under the cap. I don't think management will have a big issue spending to the cap as they're shedding a lot of cap next year with Bernier off the books.
Then... if management is refusing to go to the cap. Try for Stoner. Offer a 2nd+stoner for free. If that's not enough add in a B prospect. One of the floor teams will bite, Stoner isn't a terrible player after all. Losing these assets is far less of a blow than losing guys like Fowler for a ELC player when the team is in win-now mode.
At the end of the line very deep beyond imagination, there's the "must trade Fowler for ELC/cheap forward". I'm not saying don't trade Fowler either, but to me that is 100% separate from the cap issues. If Fowler is traded, trade him for an equivalent salary established LW as a positional move. Fowler and the cap issues don't conflict each other at all. He's probably their best "bang for buck" player on the team at 4Mil. Why that spells "trade him to shed cap" is absolutely opposite of logic.
Simon Despres carries 3.7m, has positive value as an asset, and can be traded with ease. With him traded for futures there's 10.5m of space for Rakell and Lindholm which is enough to fit under the cap. I don't think management will have a big issue spending to the cap as they're shedding a lot of cap next year with Bernier off the books.
Then... if management is refusing to go to the cap. Try for Stoner. Offer a 2nd+stoner for free. If that's not enough add in a B prospect. One of the floor teams will bite, Stoner isn't a terrible player after all. Losing these assets is far less of a blow than losing guys like Fowler for a ELC player when the team is in win-now mode.
At the end of the line very deep beyond imagination, there's the "must trade Fowler for ELC/cheap forward". I'm not saying don't trade Fowler either, but to me that is 100% separate from the cap issues. If Fowler is traded, trade him for an equivalent salary established LW as a positional move. Fowler and the cap issues don't conflict each other at all. He's probably their best "bang for buck" player on the team at 4Mil. Why that spells "trade him to shed cap" is absolutely opposite of logic.
We don't have the cap space to do this even after dumping Smith, we would need to clear an additional $1M or so more cap from the active roster. See this sheet for details, it has cap numbers for 4 trade scenarios for Fowler.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
I know Jokinen isn't 25 anymore but he's a proven player, can play special teams and improves your top 6. How does saving $3million in cap space not help signing Lindholm and Rakell?
Sign Lindholm and Rakell and you probably have around $2.5-$3million in space to use one of the picks we sent you + one of yours for Rieder from Arizona who replaces Cogs.
You don't HAVE to accept but it's a negotiation making a trade and I wouldn't offer my best deal right off the bat. Are you sure we don't have what you would want? Reilly Smith? I think we have pieces but are they available? Possibly.
Make a counter and see if we're serious or just spinning our wheels.
- Jul 25, 2012
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You have to take into consideration your bidding vs other teams on Fowler do you think that's best offer we would get?
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
Very true, if you don't have a counter offer then I respect your decision to look elsewhere but time is not on your side. Season is a week away. Tick tock
Ducks Nation*
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- Mar 19, 2013
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TheImpatientPanther
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Ducks Nation*
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- Mar 19, 2013
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Nothing needs to be said why would we trade a young top pairing defensemen for an old winger that makes around the same salary. That would be horrible management. And then you want cogs we are already short of lw and he's our best PKer and heart and soul of this team. That deal makes no sense at all for Anaheim unless they are trying to go for Nolan Patrick. Just because we could use cap space doesn't mean we are going to give our young players away for close to retiring players. We can just wait to put nate Thompson on LTIR and we won't have to move anyone.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
Finnish your Czech
J'aime Les offres hostiles
Breakers
Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Ducks may not even have Noesen's rights in the next couple of days. He was put on waivers yesterday.
Breakers
Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
Oops got him mixed up with Macrus Peterson.
It would be someone like him. or Julius Natinen
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