Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

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strictlyrandy

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Sep 9, 2013
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Still don't know who you think you'll get with better value.

You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.
 

LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS

Washed up College Hockey Player OSU18 Uofl 2021
May 7, 2013
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You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

My assumption is from a business stand point because in the end this is a business. Duchenes value is at its highest now that's why I'm saying it better to trade him now than next year. The rumors going around is That they are looking for a roster player, a Prospect, a first and a 2nd round pick. That's the asking price that's being rumored. What I'm saying is what we offer fits that criteria that Sakic has been rumored to been asking for. Also the interest is there if there are scouts present . No you all don't have to make a trade but it's better now than later or never.. https://twitter.com/justinbbradford/status/827297316885426179
 
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bear16

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Dec 20, 2013
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You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

Well said, Randy. Thanks. :handclap:
 

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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They were interviewing Adrian Dater,reporter for the Av' s last week during an intermission of a Canucks game ...He stated that the the Av's management are actively seeking a return of of a young D for Duchene (or Landeskog)..names mentioned were Carlo from the Bruins...Which does lead me to believe that Segachev would be a piece in any deal for Duchene involving the Habs.

Dater isn't really the best source. However today Bobfather said the Avs were looking for a 24 year old or younger top 4 D, 1st, High end prospect for Duchene and add on a 2nd if the prospect isn't established.

We also know Gabe would be slightly cheaper than Duchene.

Either way it all makes sense as the basis is the same as the RoR deal, except for this time Sakic is in no rush what so ever and both guys are cost controlled.
 

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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If only people were inanimate objects like watches.

People in this thread should try reading about basic psychology and business management.

But it's totally clear that the Avs know exactly what they are doing when judging a player's worth. I mean, Soderberg, Bourque, Iginla, Gelinas, Beauchemin.... yup they really know how to accurately peg a guy's value on the ice and appropriate compensation.

#1: Its not Sakics fault that UFA is garbage and he inherited a bad team with literally no one in the system.

#2: No one is doing well this year and it would be foolish to assume that it is an accurate representation of a player. Look at a player like Nick Holden, who was a nightmare on the Avs but in NYR he has found a better fit for his play style.

Soderberg: was the best C in that UFA year on a solid deal. He's a 3c who has been bad this year no question but given he just had a 51pt season last year he is obviously a talented player. There may be concerns as to whether he is a good fit for the current system the Avs are running but I think he isn't a solid hockey player.

Bourque: any time you can get a waiver wire guy to throw in 10 goals is a win. There is no downside, especially if a team trades any asset for him its like getting a free pick.

Gelinas: It was a high risk reward move for sure but hard to say that a 3rd round pick had a higher % to become and impact NHL player than Gelinas did who had shown promise in NJ. It didn't work out but I wouldn't say taking a chance on a guy is always a poor choice. If Gelinas had managed to fix some of his deficiencies as a player it would have been a steal. I see no issue here.

Iggy/Beauch: Its hard to say whether the deals to add older Vets to the Avs was more of Sakics or Roys decision and if it was correct to say if the Avs should have been in a win now mentality in the first place (hindsight bias withstanding). We always knew the deals would look bad in their final years which is were they are at now.

I think the real question you need to be asking here isn't if Sakic poorly evaluated his players but If Sakic was able to do the best with the options that he had to which personally I would say he did. There are certainly some moves I didn't agree with but were understandable.

Its important to note that the Avs had 0! depth players that came from draft picks from the previous regime and this current year is the epitome of that. However as we start to see young players come in through the system thanks to the work Sakic has done it will become apparent that the current predicament is not on him.
 

MarryMarner

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Mar 31, 2008
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William Nylander
Tyler Bozak

for

Matt Duchene

JVR - Matthews - Brown
Hyman - Duchene - Marner
Komarov - Kadri - Soshnikov
Martin - Gauthier - Smith
 

token grinder

Facts Get Deleted
Sep 29, 2009
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I would look at prior deals where multiple pieces get swapped for the best player in the deal. I keep thinking back to Kovalchuk and the 1st, a good prospect and a bottom sixer. I can't see a contender giving up more that that (in terms of a top 6F or a top 4D) You are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I still say a Fabbro/Girard + 1st/Fiala +young middle sixer (Aberg, Sissons?) + cap dump (Ribeiro-I said him before he asked out of town) is going to be the best package they can get. You fill 3 holes in your lineup and let the cap dump walk after the year.
 

CanadienShark

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Dec 18, 2012
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A Johansen/Duchene combo would be filthy. I was very jealous when Nashville got Johansen, and will be again if they get Duchene.

It'd be like Dallas going from nothing to Seguin and Spezza within like a year all over again. Except Nashville has superstar d-men to back them up.
 

Ivan13

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I would look at prior deals where multiple pieces get swapped for the best player in the deal. I keep thinking back to Kovalchuk and the 1st, a good prospect and a bottom sixer. I can't see a contender giving up more that that (in terms of a top 6F or a top 4D) You are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I still say a Fabbro/Girard + 1st/Fiala +young middle sixer (Aberg, Sissons?) + cap dump (Ribeiro-I said him before he asked out of town) is going to be the best package they can get. You fill 3 holes in your lineup and let the cap dump walk after the year.

Kovalchuck trade happened what seems like eons ago and that return was horrible. Your return makes no sense for the Avs.
 

herzausstein

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Aug 31, 2014
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I think Nashville's best offers would be something around ekholm, ribeiro, and a d prospect not named girard/fabbro/carrier

Or if they wanted fabbro/girard/carrier it would be along one of them + ribeiro + a first

I'd do either tbh once Josi gets back
 

CerebralGenesis

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Jul 23, 2009
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I would look at prior deals where multiple pieces get swapped for the best player in the deal. I keep thinking back to Kovalchuk and the 1st, a good prospect and a bottom sixer. I can't see a contender giving up more that that (in terms of a top 6F or a top 4D) You are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I still say a Fabbro/Girard + 1st/Fiala +young middle sixer (Aberg, Sissons?) + cap dump (Ribeiro-I said him before he asked out of town) is going to be the best package they can get. You fill 3 holes in your lineup and let the cap dump walk after the year.

but they don't need to move him
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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I honestly feel that if we beat Edmonton tonight and Josii comes back Saturday that you'll see Duchene in a Preds Jersey next week. It makes so much sense. I can see the deal being

Ekholm
Doughtry/girard
1st round pick
Conditional 2nd if we make it to the confrence finals

For

Duchene

Last time I had this feeling we got Johansen so let's see if I'm 2 of 2

Tell me - last time, when you had this feeling, were you among the other Preds posters who insisted Colin Wilson would be heading back to the Jackets? You didn't actually post anything at the time, but there were a whole lot of folks who are fond of having "seen the trade coming" who also insisted that there was no way Jones would be anywhere near the deal, so... just checking. :)

I wouldn't be too shocked if Duchene ends up in Preds gold, but they're really trying for a better blueliner than Ekholm as the centerpiece and that's their prerogative. There's kind of recent precedent for that sort of top-center-for-top-blueliner deal, after all.
 

Mersss

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Jul 12, 2014
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You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

How do you think Duchene feels about that situation?

The more Sakic waits to trade him, the more his value drops as there is NO WAY Duchene signs another deal with the Avs with the way this whole mess was taken care of. Duchene has 2 years of conract left after this year. Knowing that, the more they wait, the more his value will drop. So NO, GMs do not HAVE to offer whatever Sakic wants especially when the asking price is that ridiculous. Look at what Ryan Johansen and Taylor Hall got in terms of trade value and Duchene will notch something similar.
 

ThirdManIn

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Aug 9, 2009
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You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

Sakic does need defense, though, and not a lot of teams have it to spare. In order to get something of note on the backend he is going to have to give up something of note. No other team in the league at the moment has to trade a top four defenseman. None of them are trying to get rid of a top four defenseman. They are daring Sakic to trade Duchene for one, and they are going to bring that aspect to the negotiation table.

See, this isn't one sided. It isn't going to be a robbery. It's going to be a negotiation in which both sides have leverage. You are correct. Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene, but he does have to fix whatever is wrong with his team. So really it depends on how safe he thinks his job is, and how badly he wants to remain GM. If he thinks it's safe or he just doesn't care if he is fired then he can sit tight and wait for a team to come knocking with a huge bag full of assets. If he thinks he has to do something quickly that really limits his ability to just, for instance, take a shot at adding needed pieces through the draft.
 

These Are The Days

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Sakic said time and time again that he wants a blueliner, you offer none. And what do we need Bozak for?

Leaf fans have offered Bozak, JVR, Kadri and Phaneuf (until he was traded) in almost every trade proposal for the last 3 years because the player that they are getting back each proposal is better than they are. However I have to give credit to see Nylander in the proposal because it takes a lot of courage to offer a young player like that in exchange for someone like Duchene
 

Ivan13

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Leaf fans have offered Bozak, JVR, Kadri and Phaneuf (until he was traded) in almost every trade proposal for the last 3 years because the player that they are getting back each proposal is better than they are. However I have to give credit to see Nylander in the proposal because it takes a lot of courage to offer a young player like that in exchange for someone like Duchene

Someone like Duchene? Nylander's upside is Duchene.
 

Rockomax

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Jan 16, 2007
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You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

Although I agree with most of what you are saying, the bolded part is debatable. Duchene, or any other player for that matter, doesn't have an intrinsic value. His value is actually what other GMs are willing to give up for him.

That said, I don't believe that Sakic will get his asking price, thus I think that he will stay put.
 

KingsFan7824

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How do you think Duchene feels about that situation?

The more Sakic waits to trade him, the more his value drops as there is NO WAY Duchene signs another deal with the Avs with the way this whole mess was taken care of. Duchene has 2 years of conract left after this year. Knowing that, the more they wait, the more his value will drop. So NO, GMs do not HAVE to offer whatever Sakic wants especially when the asking price is that ridiculous. Look at what Ryan Johansen and Taylor Hall got in terms of trade value and Duchene will notch something similar.

His value won't drop between now and the draft though. Probably have more teams interested/able to do a deal in a few months anyway. GM's don't have to offer what Sakic wants, but as long as there's more than one GM talking to him, he gets the bidding war.

2 years isn't a long time, but it's also not tomorrow. Sakic still has the upper hand.
 

Benstheman

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Nov 20, 2014
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At that price, Sakic will have no choice but to keep Duchene.

Duchene barely has more value than a 24 years old top 4D. So adding a High end prospect and 1 st annnddddd possibly a 2nd is just ridiculous.

One thing is sure, he won't get that before the deadline because price is ridiculous.

On an other note, those who think they don't have to trade him, sorry but you are wrong. Admitting the Avs are going the rebuild route just killed the possibilities of Duchene wanting to resign there. They have no choice trading him and the sooner the better.
 
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