Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Weber6]

Our defense without Maatta... woof.

Won't matter when you have

Sheary - Crosby - Duchene

Rust - Malkin - Hornqvist

HBK

Kunitz - Cullen - Wilson

Come playoff time

 

[Dr Quincy]

Uhhh yea, exactly. You just laid out the perfect analogy claiming to understand and yet you still do not? Well I guess I will try to help you.

As someone who sells things on ebay quite regularly, I can assure you that this is a great analogy. I put something very rare and sought after on there and ask a lot for it, even more than I am willing to accept. The reason is simple but again, you clearly have issues seeing the forest for the trees despite them being in front of you so I'll explain further. Every once in a while someone comes along and pays my full asking price. Imagine that. Happens all the time btw.

They really want that watch and they can't find it anywhere else, so they'll pay me twice what it's worth in a vacuum, because they don't want to risk missing out on it. Sometimes it takes longer for me to sell it and sometimes it doesn't. People are still able to make offers despite my asking price.

The first thing is that Duchene is the type of player which is rarely available in this league. Making him rare and highly sought after. The second thing is that Sakic isn't asking "twice" what he's worth since you can't quantify exactly what he is worth in the first place. Which is where the analogy is flawed. If you could clone athletes and 2 years ago a clone of Duchene was auctioned off, then you could quantify his value.

As it stands the analogy is still a good one and Sakic is going to be asking for an overpayment, and also more than what he is probably willing to settle for if push comes to shove. This is how you sell off something that is rare, valuable, highly sought after and hardly ever available. Someone who assumes market value on something in an ever changing market is going to get less than what that market may provide.

People in this thread should try reading about basic economics.

If only people were inanimate objects like watches.

People in this thread should try reading about basic psychology and business management.

But it's totally clear that the Avs know exactly what they are doing when judging a player's worth. I mean, Soderberg, Bourque, Iginla, Gelinas, Beauchemin.... yup they really know how to accurately peg a guy's value on the ice and appropriate compensation.

 

[AMDZen]

If only people were inanimate objects like watches.

People in this thread should try reading about basic psychology and business management.

But it's totally clear that the Avs know exactly what they are doing when judging a player's worth. I mean, Soderberg, Bourque, Iginla, Gelinas, Beauchemin.... yup they really know how to accurately peg a guy's value on the ice and appropriate compensation.

This is a fair point. However assuming that GMs aren't interested in Duchene despite the fact that we keep reading articles about him is my issue.

Don't forget about ror as an example too when Avs fans were told we were asking for too much only to receive the asking price.

Sakic may be asking too much for Duchene but this other person's argument was comparing him to a watch, and that Avs should just keep the watch. Which is precisely what Avs fans have been saying and probably what Sakic has in mind.

I also already made the point about quantifiable value differences between items and athletes and was just continuing his own analogy.

 

[AslanRH]

But it's totally clear that the Avs know exactly what they are doing when judging a player's worth. I mean, Soderberg, Bourque, Iginla, Gelinas, Beauchemin.... yup they really know how to accurately peg a guy's value on the ice and appropriate compensation.

Agreed on Gelinas not on the whole 650k they spent on Bourque

to be fair, Avs signed all of those as UFAs* and wouldn't you demand more money to play for Colorado vs most every other team in the NHL the last couple seasons. It isn't like the Avs are the Hawks who are good enough to get guys to constantly take less for a chance to run for the cup

* they did trade for Soderberg's rights

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

I honestly feel that if we beat Edmonton tonight and Josii comes back Saturday that you'll see Duchene in a Preds Jersey next week. It makes so much sense. I can see the deal being

Ekholm
Doughtry/girard
1st round pick
Conditional 2nd if we make it to the confrence finals

For

Duchene

Last time I had this feeling we got Johansen so let's see if I'm 2 of 2

 

[bear16]

I honestly feel that if we beat Edmonton tonight and Josii comes back Saturday that you'll see Duchene in a Preds Jersey next week. It makes so much sense. I can see the deal being

Ekholm
Doughtry/girard
1st round pick
Conditional 2nd if we make it to the confrence finals

For

Duchene

Last time I had this feeling we got Johansen so let's see if I'm 2 of 2

Well, count me as an Avs fan who hopes your "prediction" record falls to .500. Thanks, but no. Sorry, but I believe Colorado can do better.

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

Well, count me as an Avs fan who hopes your "prediction" record falls to .500. Thanks, but no. Sorry, but I believe Colorado can do better.

Most teams won't give you what Sakics looking for. From us you'll get a top 4 possibly top 2 dman. A blue chip prospect. ( might be Fabbro or Fila instead of OP) and we are known for trading our 1st rounders

 

[GeauxPreds]

A very good number 3 locked up long term for less than 4 mil a year, a blue chip d prospect, a 1st AND a conditional second and you think the avs can get more?

Like I know the media has been underselling Duchenes value lately but that's crazy.

 

[Avs44]

A very good number 3 locked up long term for less than 4 mil a year, a blue chip d prospect, a 1st AND a conditional second and you think the avs can get more?

Like I know the media has been underselling Duchenes value lately but that's crazy.

...who is this blue chip defense prospect....?

 

[DJN21]

...who is this blue chip defense prospect....?

Glad someone asked lol

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

...who is this blue chip defense prospect....?

Dante Fabbro 15th overall pick. Crazy Hockey IQ and amazing 2 way dman. Samuel Girard #1 dman in points in the Q #18 in points for alll skaters in the Q. The dudes a stud. Jack Doughtry was a monster in college and is killing in for the winterhawks

 

[bear16]

A very good number 3 locked up long term for less than 4 mil a year, a blue chip d prospect, a 1st AND a conditional second and you think the avs can get more?

Like I know the media has been underselling Duchenes value lately but that's crazy.

No. Please don't misquote me. I didn't say that the Avs could get more, I said they could do BETTER!

 

[Avs44]

Dante Fabbro 15th overall pick. Crazy Hockey IQ and amazing 2 way dman. Samuel Girard #1 dman in points in the Q #18 in points for alll skaters in the Q. The dudes a stud. Jack Doughtry was a monster in college and is killing in for the winterhawks

Clearly the term has been polluted beyond all meaning if this is what now qualifies as blue chip. According to your definition I could probably argue the Avs now have a host of blue chip prospects too - such as Compher and Greer. Good numbers in the AHL as rookies. I consider Sergachev and Chabot to be blue chip prospects. I probably consider Jost to be one. It's a very, very short list.

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

No. Please don't misquote me. I didn't say that the Avs could get more, I said they could do BETTER!

Same thing. How would you do better? What team is so depth in prospects and willing to trade them? What team has those prospect and the cap to take on Duchenes contract for 2 years? What teamis gonna offer those prospects and their 1st round pick to draft a new prospect to take over?

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

Clearly the term has been polluted beyond all meaning if this is what now qualifies as blue chip. According to your definition I could probably argue the Avs now have a host of blue chip prospects too - such as Compher and Greer. Good numbers in the AHL as rookies. I consider Sergachev and Chabot to be blue chip prospects. I probably consider Jost to be one. It's a very, very short list.

What's your definition of a blue chip then? Sounds like there's no such thing anymore

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

Clearly the term has been polluted beyond all meaning if this is what now qualifies as blue chip. According to your definition I could probably argue the Avs now have a host of blue chip prospects too - such as Compher and Greer. Good numbers in the AHL as rookies. I consider Sergachev and Chabot to be blue chip prospects. I probably consider Jost to be one. It's a very, very short list.

Fabbro and girard were both drafted last draft and already are having impacts this year

 

[bear16]

Same thing. How would you do better? What team is so depth in prospects and willing to trade them? What team has those prospect and the cap to take on Duchenes contract for 2 years? What time is gonna offer those prospects and their 1st round pick to draft a new prospect to take over?

I'm not saying that the Avs could get more players/prospects/picks than your offer... I'm saying that they could get BETTER players/prospects/picks than your offer.

KEY: More = Quantity. Better = Quality.

Is it really that difficult to understand?!

 

[Avs44]

What's your definition of a blue chip then? Sounds like there's no such thing anymore

Genuine top defensman or top forward talent with a highly reasonable chance of hitting it. That means a 5'9 160 pound defensman who is doing well in Junior probably has way too many question marks to be remotely near that list. Lets see how Girard does against men in much tougher leagues first, while maintaining high offensive ability and being good defensively. Then he's "blue chip". To give an example I'm familiar with, Rantanen putting up over a PPG in the AHL last year as a 19 year old in his Draft+1 year put him into that category of prospect for me. I think blue chip is generally understood as elite and highly rarely. The notion that the Preds just have three blue chip defense prospects lying around is preposterous.

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

I'm not saying that the Avs could get more players/prospects/picks than your offer... I'm saying that they could get BETTER players/prospects/picks than your offer.

KEY: More = Quantity. Better = Quality.

Is it really that difficult to understand?!

I understand what you saying what I'm saying is, who's those better prospects gonna be? Who's the better player gonna be? You may get a higher draft pick but what teams gonna give you the asking price for Duchene. Teams aren't gonna sell a current player, a good prospect and a 1st and 2nd. That'll make the teams in the bottom of the league weaker and the teams up top aren't gonna give the assets for that

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

Genuine top defensman or top forward talent with a highly reasonable chance of hitting it. That means a 5'9 160 pound defensman who is doing well in Junior probably has way too many question marks to be remotely near that list. Lets see how Girard does against men in much tougher leagues first, while maintaining high offensive ability and being good defensively. Then he's "blue chip". To give an example I'm familiar with, Rantanen putting up over a PPG in the AHL last year as a 19 year old in his Draft+1 year put him into that category of prospect for me. I think blue chip is generally understood as elite and highly rarely. The notion that the Preds just have three blue chip defense prospects lying around is preposterous.

I still consider Fabbro a blue chip in those standards

 

[GeauxPreds]

I'm not saying that the Avs could get more players/prospects/picks than your offer... I'm saying that they could get BETTER players/prospects/picks than your offer.

KEY: More = Quantity. Better = Quality.

Is it really that difficult to understand?!

When I say more I mean more in value...

 

[bear16]

I understand what you saying what I'm saying is, who's those better prospects gonna be? Who's the better player gonna be? You may get a higher draft pick but what teams gonna give you the asking price for Duchene. Teams aren't gonna sell a current player, a good prospect and a 1st and 2nd. That'll make the teams in the bottom of the league weaker and the teams up top aren't gonna give the assets for that

I don't believe your offer makes the Avs a BETTER team, so keep your "current player, good prospect, 1st and 2nd" and the Avs will keep Duchene. They're not in a position where they MUST trade him, which is why the asking price is so high.

 

[bear16]

When I say more I mean more in value...

More in value = BETTER. The dictionary's definition of better is "of a more excellent or effective type or quality". So instead of saying more in value, trying using BETTER.

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

I don't believe your offer makes the Avs a BETTER team, so keep your "current player, good prospect, 1st and 2nd" and the Avs will keep Duchene. They're not in a position where they MUST trade him, which is why the asking price is so high.

His max value is now. No one will give you what's he's worth now when he's a rental. The sooner y'all trade him and Landeskag the better you'll be set for the future

 

[LOUISVILLE ICE CARDS]

More in value = BETTER. The dictionary's definition of better is "of a more excellent or effective type or quality". So instead of saying more in value, trying using BETTER.

Still don't know who you think you'll get with better value.