Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Liferleafer]

Someone like Duchene? Nylander's upside is Duchene.

Duchene is a fantastic player, but the Leafs needs are defensive. We shouldn't even consider trading for Duchene.

 

[Foppberg]

Duchene is a fantastic player, but the Leafs needs are defensive. We shouldn't even consider trading for Duchene.

Exact same for the Avs too. If we're dealing Duchene we'd need Reilly + not Nylander +

 

[strictlyrandy]

At that price, Sakic will have no choice but to keep Duchene.

Duchene barely has more value than a 24 years old top 4D. So adding a High end prospect and 1 st annnddddd possibly a 2nd is just ridiculous.

One thing is sure, he won't get that before the deadline because price is ridiculous.

On an other note, those who think they don't have to trade him, sorry but you are wrong. Admitting the Avs are going the rebuild route just killed the possibilities of Duchene wanting to resign there. They have no choice trading him and the sooner the better.

Sakic doesn't need to or have to trade Duchene. You're missing the entire point. The price on Duchene is high because Sakic has all the leverage in a trade.

People need to get this through their thick skulls. Duchene does not have to be traded.

Sakic is doing his job of entertaining offers. If a team doesn't want to pay the price then fine. Avs fans would largely rather keep one of their best players.

 

[Liferleafer]

Exact same for the Avs too. If we're dealing Duchene we'd need Reilly + not Nylander +

Which is why Lou shouldn't even make the phone call.

 

[Benstheman]

Sakic doesn't need to or have to trade Duchene. You're missing the entire point. The price on Duchene is high because Sakic has all the leverage in a trade.

People need to get this through their thick skulls. Duchene does not have to be traded.

Sakic is doing his job of entertaining offers. If a team doesn't want to pay the price then fine. Avs fans would largely rather keep one of their best players.

Duchene won't resign there. So what does that tell you??

 

[strictlyrandy]

Duchene won't resign there. So what does that tell you??

News to me. Where's your source? Dude bleeds burgundy and blue. He loves this team more than anything.

 

[lomiller1]

Exact same for the Avs too. If we're dealing Duchene we'd need Reilly + not Nylander +

Value wise, you could argue Duchene for Rielly straight up in a vacuum but with contract situation factored in the + would be on the Avs side.

Which is why Lou shouldn't even make the phone call.

He’d pick up the phone and talk, but it’s not going anywhere. It’s not about value, it just doesn’t fit the Leafs needs.

 

[ThunderBird]

Duchene won't resign there. So what does that tell you??

How do you even know. Can people stop making stuff up?

We don't care what you think Duchene is worth.
We don't care if you think he is going to walk in 2.5 years.
We don't care if you think he is overrated.
We don't care if you think we have to trade him.

The price is the price.

We heard this all before with ROR. Dude is overrated, only one year on his contract, he is just a third line center, no one is going to pay that much. Guess what the Avs fans asked for Zadorov hundreds of times and everyone said no one is going to pay that. Then boom the trade happened and we got Zadorov. Now everyone says that's all you got but some of the same people in this thread telling us the same tired old lines.

 

[kasper11]

You fail to realize something..

Sakic doesn't have to trade Duchene. He doesn't need to trade Duchene. He's basically said "Yeah, if you want him, I'll give him to you, but you're gonna have to pay what I want. If not, we're happy keeping him."

Sakic isn't trying to get rid of Duchene. He's daring a team to trade for him and give him what he wants. He knows Duchene holds a ton of value. Stop with this assumption that Sakic is trying to dump Duchene and he needs to take whatever he can get for him.

No, he doesn't have to move Duchene, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't.

The Avs are awful. They are 10 points behind the second worst team. How much do you realistically expect them to improve next season?

Maybe they get the #1 pick. Even then, how much does Patrick help next season? Who else can they reasonably get to turn them into a playoff team next year? Especially given that they have $53M committed to just 14 players next season already.

The question is, when do you realistically expect this team to contend? Duchene is a UFA in 2.5 years. If you are going to move him, between now and free agency is probably when he will have the most value. (I actually think his value may go up a bit after the season, when more teams have cap room and hopes of contending).

If the Avs hold onto him through next season, they are now looking at trading him as a rental. The price drops significantly. If they aren't contending then, they are looking at moving him still but getting a lesser return.

I understand that they could try to re-sign him when his contract is up, he will be only 28. But this team is just so bad they really need a lot of help. They have maybe 7 players that should be there (MacKinnon, Duchene, Rantanen, Landeskog, Barrie, Johnson, Zadarov). The rest of the team needs to be completely rebuilt. Where does that come from? They have Jost, they'll get a top prospect this year, but there isn't much else on the horizon as far as impact players. They're locked into some bad contracts through next year (Soderberg, Beauch, Comeau, Colborne, and Varlamov will count for $20M against the cap next year).

No, the Avs don't NEED to move Duchene. But, they need to think about what they want this team to look like moving forward, and how they can get there. They will need to move some players with value to build up depth throughout the organization. MacKinnon and Rantanen are under team control for 6 years after this; they are the ones you build around. Johnson probably doesn't have much value, at least not the kind that rebuilds a system. Zadarov also isn't going to bring back a huge haul.

That leaves Duchene and Landeskog as the only realistic options if they are going to make a move.

Truthfully, I wouldn't trade them for less than a king's ransom right now if I was Sakic either. There are teams that could be in the bidding in the offseason that aren't right now either due to the Cap or poor play thus far. But once the season ends, and Duchene's value is at its highest, he really needs to pull the trigger.

 

[trentmccleary]

Sakic doesn't need to or have to trade Duchene. You're missing the entire point. The price on Duchene is high because Sakic has all the leverage in a trade.

People need to get this through their thick skulls. Duchene does not have to be traded.

Sakic is doing his job of entertaining offers. If a team doesn't want to pay the price then fine. Avs fans would largely rather keep one of their best players.

He's been rumoured to be available. The price for similar players recently has been Jones and Larsson. The price demanded seems to be approaching Jones/Larsson and a 1st and a top prospect. If he's available, a realistic price has been set in the market. If the Avs want drastically more than that, why bother with the pretense that he's available?

 

[Price4Prez]

How do you even know. Can people stop making stuff up?

We don't care what you think Duchene is worth.
We don't care if you think he is going to walk in 2.5 years.
We don't care if you think he is overrated.
We don't care if you think we have to trade him.

The price is the price.

We heard this all before with ROR. Dude is overrated, only one year on his contract, he is just a third line center, no one is going to pay that much. Guess what the Avs fans asked for Zadorov hundreds of times and everyone said no one is going to pay that. Then boom the trade happened and we got Zadorov. Now everyone says that's all you got but some of the same people in this thread telling us the same tired old lines.

Despite my better judgement telling me to not even bother, I will go against it and but in here.

Maybe YOU, and other Avs fans don`t care what others think. Maybe it`s your love for your players or maybe you re just stubborn, BUT it is clear as day that the Avs will trade Duchene.

Don`t take my word for it, Bob McKenzie was on TSN690 this am, and when asked if he thought Duchene was getting traded, not only did he say that the odds of him getting traded are higher than 50%, he also said, in his opinion, while reading between the lines, that Duchene wants out. The Avs have signaled a retool/rebuild and want to get younger and Duchene, at 26, and already have gone through that, wants no part of it.

So you can continue telling everyone that YOU don`t care what everyone thinks and he is staying put, but the majority of the hockey world, including those much more connected than you, myself and all the fans, thinks otherwise.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Despite my better judgement telling me to not even bother, I will go against it and but in here.

Maybe YOU, and other Avs fans don`t care what others think. Maybe it`s your love for your players or maybe you re just stubborn, BUT it is clear as day that the Avs will trade Duchene.

Don`t take my word for it, Bob McKenzie was on TSN690 this am, and when asked if he thought Duchene was getting traded, not only did he say that the odds of him getting traded are higher than 50%, he also said, in his opinion, while reading between the lines, that Duchene wants out. The Avs have signaled a retool/rebuild and want to get younger and Duchene, at 26, and already have gone through that, wants no part of it.

So you can continue telling everyone that YOU don`t care what everyone thinks and he is staying put, but the majority of the hockey world, including those much more connected than you, myself and all the fans, thinks otherwise.

It was also clear as day that the Avs would draft Seth Jones a few years ago. Remind me again who we actually drafted?

 

[Ivan13]

He's been rumoured to be available. The price for similar players recently has been Jones and Larsson. The price demanded seems to be approaching Jones/Larsson and a 1st and a top prospect. If he's available, a realistic price has been set in the market. If the Avs want drastically more than that, why bother with the pretense that he's available?

In what world are the players being asked for him (Hanifin, Chabot, Sergachyov etc) close in value to Larsson and Jones, two established NHL players?

 

[ottawa]

I would to Beaulieau, McCarron, Desharnais and a Second Rounder in 2017

As a habs fan that's awful for Colorado. And Beaulieu isn't a top 4D.

I'd do Sergachev + 1st + for Duchene

 

[Mersss]

His value won't drop between now and the draft though. Probably have more teams interested/able to do a deal in a few months anyway. GM's don't have to offer what Sakic wants, but as long as there's more than one GM talking to him, he gets the bidding war.

2 years isn't a long time, but it's also not tomorrow. Sakic still has the upper hand.

His value will drop no matter what you think. He's not having a great season, he has 2 more year to his contract before UFA.

Asking for an A Dprospect + 1st + roster player is completely dillusionnal when we saw Taylor Hall getting traded for Adam LArsson. EDM didn't NEED to trade Taylor Hall either but they HAD TO in order to fix their D'S problems. At that point, the other GM holds the betetr hand as he's dealing with a GM that is DESPERATE to fix his team problematic.

 

[EdAVSfan]

His value will drop no matter what you think. He's not having a great season, he has 2 more year to his contract before UFA.

Asking for an A Dprospect + 1st + roster player is completely dillusionnal when we saw Taylor Hall getting traded for Adam LArsson. EDM didn't NEED to trade Taylor Hall either but they HAD TO in order to fix their D'S problems. At that point, the other GM holds the betetr hand as he's dealing with a GM that is DESPERATE to fix his team problematic.

How do you compare Larsson to a D prospect?

Larsson was an established top pairing dman, and it was pretty universally accepted that the oilers overpaid.

Your post is nonsensical.

Sakic isn't asking for Larsson plus a first plus a roster player.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Ultimately, I think it's inevitable that duchene gets traded between now and the draft.

It's just a matter of which GM is gonna pony up the pieces. Only need 1

 

[Muffin]

HF Logic:
Avs get Zadorov(Young top 4 Defenseman), Compher (Good Prospect), Grigorenko (Good Prospect), 31st overall pick for O'Reilly:

LOL AVS GOT FLEECED!

Avs asking for Young top 4 defenseman + prospect + 1st for Duchene:

LOL THEY'll NEVER GET THAT.

 

[ThunderBird]

Despite my better judgement telling me to not even bother, I will go against it and but in here.

Maybe YOU, and other Avs fans don`t care what others think. Maybe it`s your love for your players or maybe you re just stubborn, BUT it is clear as day that the Avs will trade Duchene.

Don`t take my word for it, Bob McKenzie was on TSN690 this am, and when asked if he thought Duchene was getting traded, not only did he say that the odds of him getting traded are higher than 50%, he also said, in his opinion, while reading between the lines, that Duchene wants out. The Avs have signaled a retool/rebuild and want to get younger and Duchene, at 26, and already have gone through that, wants no part of it.

So you can continue telling everyone that YOU don`t care what everyone thinks and he is staying put, but the majority of the hockey world, including those much more connected than you, myself and all the fans, thinks otherwise.

I see it much different from what you and apparently the hockey world thinks. I think Sakic doesn't see two top pairing defenders on this team but sees lots of options to replace a 1C. So the desire isn't to rebuild but try and trade a good piece we can replace with a piece we need. I think if Duchene wanted out and Sakic was going to trade him to the highest bidder then his chances of being traded would be much higher than 50%.

 

[Mersss]

How do you compare Larsson to a D prospect?

Larsson was an established top pairing dman, and it was pretty universally accepted that the oilers overpaid.

Your post is nonsensical.

Sakic isn't asking for Larsson plus a first plus a roster player.

False.

It was established Larsson was a GREAT 2nd pairing D with POTENTIAL to get to a top pairing D

It was accepted that, in order to get a YOUNG POTENTIAL TOP DMAN you HAVE to ovrpaid. Sakic will have to do the EXACT SAME THING.

How about the Oilers didn't overpaid and they actually just paid what is necessary now to get yound d-man? Either you like it or not, that trade established the market for young d-man in the NHL.

 

[Ivan13]

False.

It was established Larsson was a GREAT 2nd pairing D with POTENTIAL to get to a top pairing D

It was accepted that, in order to get a YOUNG POTENTIAL TOP DMAN you HAVE to ovrpaid. Sakic will have to do the EXACT SAME THING.

How about the Oilers didn't overpaid and they actually just paid what is necessary now to get yound d-man? Either you like it or not, that trade established the market for young d-man in the NHL.

That played top pairing minutes and faced close to toughest QoC in the league and fared really well doing so? He was a top pairing D, just as he is now.

 

[EdAVSfan]

False.

It was established Larsson was a GREAT 2nd pairing D with POTENTIAL to get to a top pairing D

It was accepted that, in order to get a YOUNG POTENTIAL TOP DMAN you HAVE to ovrpaid. Sakic will have to do the EXACT SAME THING.

How about the Oilers didn't overpaid and they actually just paid what is necessary now to get yound d-man? Either you like it or not, that trade established the market for young d-man in the NHL.

Sure thing.

Except we also saw Johansen traded for Seth jones.

And we also saw the avs trade ROR for pretty much the same package that they're asking now.

And Adam Larsson was definitely considered a top pairing guy. Not a #1, but definitely a player good enough to handle top lines. He also had close to 300 games played.

I don't understand how people can say a package is too much when we have no idea what players are involved. Is it a current top 4 D? Is it a dman that has potential for top 4 d? Is it an actual top pairing guy like Larsson? Or just a guy that has potential like sergachev or hanifin?

How high is the first? How good is the roster player?

We don't know anything. So saying it's too expensive is just people whining about things they don't even know.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

HF Logic:
Avs get Zadorov(Young top 4 Defenseman), Compher (Good Prospect), Grigorenko (Good Prospect), 31st overall pick for O'Reilly:

LOL AVS GOT FLEECED!

Avs asking for Young top 4 defenseman + prospect + 1st for Duchene:

LOL THEY'll NEVER GET THAT.

Very true. Although one has to keep in mind that the value in a vacuum and the perceived value the GM:s have/teams have isn't the same. The price will probably be a d-man with top 2 potential (Sergashev tier) + 1st + cap dump with the assets varying depending on the pieces. I do believe that MTL will move to get him. But an honest question, does Sergashev have Pietrangelo top 2 potential or Eric Johnsson top 2 potential? Because the former is the Minimum viable top 2 d-man in my opinion.

 

[trentmccleary]

HF Logic:
Avs get Zadorov(Young top 4 Defenseman), Compher (Good Prospect), Grigorenko (Good Prospect), 31st overall pick for O'Reilly:

LOL AVS GOT FLEECED!

Avs asking for Young top 4 defenseman + prospect + 1st for Duchene:

LOL THEY'll NEVER GET THAT.

When has Zadorov ever been a top-4 d-man?... Zadorov and Grigorenko were both recent first rounders who'd barely established themselves in the NHL.

The Avs also gave up a 26yo 3rd/2nd line tweener (at the time) in McGinn.

Your proposed deal of a young top-4 d-man, plus, plus without giving anything else up is not really like the ROR deal at all.

 

[1909]

Nashville would have to give Josi to get Duchene. Might not be a bad idea with Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and Irwin on board + lots of good d-men down the pipe.