Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Ivan13]

When has Zadorov ever been a top-4 d-man?... Zadorov and Grigorenko were both recent first rounders who'd barely established themselves in the NHL.

The Avs also gave up a 26yo 3rd/2nd line tweener (at the time) in McGinn.

Your proposed deal of a young top-4 d-man, plus, plus without giving anything else up is not really like the ROR deal at all.

Zadorov was a young D who was doing fine in his NHL stint and had top pairing potential, Compher and 31st pick were really valuable pieces as well. As for McGinn, he missed almost the entire year due to back surgery caused by a chronic back issue, his value at that point in time was a 3rd rounder at best, hell he was traded from the Sabers soon after for a conditional 3rd rounder.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't think it would cost Josi, though obviously that would probably get it done from the avs side. The avs are rebuilding, and are more likely looking for younger than Josi I would think. He would improve their back end though.


People shouldn't think RoR trade 2.0 is happening. I think someone is going to pony up a bigger peice than anything in that deal.

 

[Captain Mountain]

That played top pairing minutes and faced close to toughest QoC in the league and fared really well doing so? He was a top pairing D, just as he is now.

I think its a pretty big stretch to say he fared really well in those minutes. He was ok, but it was pretty clear he wasn't suited to those minutes.

Emelin plays top pairing minutes facing incredibly tough QoC this year and has fared well too. Doesn't mean he should be in that role (Note: I am not comparing Larsson to Emelin).

 

[Muffin]

Zadorov was a young D who was doing fine in his NHL stint and had top pairing potential, Compher and 31st pick were really valuable pieces as well. As for McGinn, he missed almost the entire year due to back surgery caused by a chronic back issue, his value at that point in time was a 3rd rounder at best, hell he was traded from the Sabres soon after for a conditional 3rd rounder.

Greer and Compher are the Avs' best prospect not named Jost and Rantanen as well. They're both killing it as 1st year players in the AHL and should be on the team next year.

 

[EdAVSfan]

When has Zadorov ever been a top-4 d-man?... Zadorov and Grigorenko were both recent first rounders who'd barely established themselves in the NHL.

The Avs also gave up a 26yo 3rd/2nd line tweener (at the time) in McGinn.

Your proposed deal of a young top-4 d-man, plus, plus without giving anything else up is not really like the ROR deal at all.

To be fair, McGinn had just missed 60 games due to back surgery, a chronic problem for him. And he was also an expiring UFA. His value was probably quite low to begin with.

 

[Fazkovsky]

No matters what the price is

Have arent contending with the current offence

 

[EdAVSfan]

I think its a pretty big stretch to say he fared really well in those minutes. He was ok, but it was pretty clear he wasn't suited to those minutes.

Emelin plays top pairing minutes facing incredibly tough QoC this year and has fared well too. Doesn't mean he should be in that role (Note: I am not comparing Larsson to Emelin).

It's a whole different animal when your partner is weber.

Let's not pretend like Larsson was paired with a Norris caliber defenceman either.

 

[Price4Prez]

I see it much different from what you and apparently the hockey world thinks. I think Sakic doesn't see two top pairing defenders on this team but sees lots of options to replace a 1C. So the desire isn't to rebuild but try and trade a good piece we can replace with a piece we need. I think if Duchene wanted out and Sakic was going to trade him to the highest bidder then his chances of being traded would be much higher than 50%.

If the desire isn't to rebuild then why trade a 26 year old center and a 24 year old winger in Landeskog in the first place? When you trade older, performing players for younger player and future assets, that's a rebuild no matter what word you want to use to describe it.

Do I think the Avs would be better served acquiring a defenceman for Duchene, absolutely, agree with you there.

Higher than 50% just means more likely to be traded than not. It could be 55% or it could be 90%. That was McKenzies answer, not mine.

My point was just to clarify that the odds look higher than most Avs fans think, that he will get traded. How could you say otherwise?

 

[KingsFan7824]

His value will drop no matter what you think. He's not having a great season, he has 2 more year to his contract before UFA.

And those 2 years don't start until next season. If he's not having a great year, why sell low when you don't have to? There's no rush to have to move him now. Colorado isn't going anywhere(in the standings). Duchene isn't going anywhere(contractually). If you don't get what you want now, it'll be easier to get it at the draft. Everyone knows their draft position, cap space situation, expansion draft results, etc.

Asking for an A Dprospect + 1st + roster player is completely dillusionnal when we saw Taylor Hall getting traded for Adam LArsson. EDM didn't NEED to trade Taylor Hall either but they HAD TO in order to fix their D'S problems. At that point, the other GM holds the betetr hand as he's dealing with a GM that is DESPERATE to fix his team problematic.

Of course Sakic isn't going to get everything he wants. That's why it's called negotiating. When was Hall traded? Not at the deadline. Plus the Oilers situation then, and the Avs situation now, are somewhat different. I'd say the Oilers were more desperate at the time than the Avs currently are. The Oilers wanted to get better now, and the Avs might be tearing things down again. Colorado has more time on their side.

 

[strictlyrandy]

How do you even know. Can people stop making stuff up?

We don't care what you think Duchene is worth.
We don't care if you think he is going to walk in 2.5 years.
We don't care if you think he is overrated.
We don't care if you think we have to trade him.

The price is the price and if you don't want him at that price don't bid.

We heard this all before with ROR. Dude is overrated, only one year on his contract, he is just a third line center, no one is going to pay that much. Guess what the Avs fans asked for Zadorov hundreds of times and everyone said no one is going to pay that. Then boom the trade happened and we got Zadorov. Now everyone says that's all you got but some of the same people in this thread telling us the same tired old lines.

This is basically all that ever needs to be said.

 

[Viqsi]

How do you even know. Can people stop making stuff up?

We don't care what you think Duchene is worth.
We don't care if you think he is going to walk in 2.5 years.
We don't care if you think he is overrated.
We don't care if you think we have to trade him.

The price is the price and if you don't want him at that price don't bid.

We heard this all before with ROR. Dude is overrated, only one year on his contract, he is just a third line center, no one is going to pay that much. Guess what the Avs fans asked for Zadorov hundreds of times and everyone said no one is going to pay that. Then boom the trade happened and we got Zadorov. Now everyone says that's all you got but some of the same people in this thread telling us the same tired old lines.

But but but but HOW DARE YOU NOT EMBRACE MY TEAM IMPROVEMENT FANTASIES AS YOUR OWN




Seriously, it's like the Johansen discussions all over again, except this time I get to be a side observer rather than in the middle of it all.

 

[Beville]

Thing is, everyone is like "the asking price is too high" blah blah blah...

but, does Colorado actually need to sell him? No.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Nashville would have to give Josi to get Duchene. Might not be a bad idea with Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and Irwin on board + lots of good d-men down the pipe.

I wouldn't immediately say no. But isn't he "too old" according to the criteria?

 

[rhinoshawarma]

Nobody will gut their team/future during a season to get Duchene. Makes no sense for teams trying to make the playoffs, this trade will happen in the off season. I can guarantee it. I think

 

[Ivan13]

I think its a pretty big stretch to say he fared really well in those minutes. He was ok, but it was pretty clear he wasn't suited to those minutes.

Emelin plays top pairing minutes facing incredibly tough QoC this year and has fared well too. Doesn't mean he should be in that role (Note: I am not comparing Larsson to Emelin).

He fared well, he and Green were great together and along with Schneider the biggest reason why the Devils didn't completely bottom out.

 

[Captain Mountain]

It's a whole different animal when your partner is weber.

Let's not pretend like Larsson was paired with a Norris caliber defenceman either.

He was paired with Andy Greene, one of the more underrated and preeminent shutdown D in the NHL. He's not Weber, but we're only talking about playing tough competition and the defensive side. I wasn't comparing the two either, I know Larsson is better.

There are reasons that Larsson as tough competition in Edmonton. Its mostly because he doesn't need to play those heavy minutes there and its not preferable for him to do so.

 

[beardawg]

Nashville would have to give Josi to get Duchene. Might not be a bad idea with Subban, Ellis, Ekholm and Irwin on board + lots of good d-men down the pipe.

This is ridiculous. Josi is more valuable to Nashville than Duchene

 

[edguy]

I wonder if this Ribeiro on waivers thing helps Nashville towards a deal to Duchene?

What about:
Fabbro
Fiala
1st
Ellis
Ribeiro (when he inevitably clears)

Now tell me how bad it is haha. Rumored ask price is 3-4 high end pieces, well there they are.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Thing is, everyone is like "the asking price is too high" blah blah blah...

but, does Colorado actually need to sell him? No.

That's why I don't think they sell him.

No team needs to acquire him either. Everyone is just looking to improve their team, now and/or in the future, and want the best deal.

 

[Ivan13]

He was paired with Andy Greene, one of the more underrated and preeminent shutdown D in the NHL. He's not Weber, but we're only talking about playing tough competition and the defensive side. I wasn't comparing the two either, I know Larsson is better.

There are reasons that Larsson as tough competition in Edmonton. Its mostly because he doesn't need to play those heavy minutes there and its not preferable for him to do so.

But he does play heavy minutes in Edmonton and he does good.

 

[beardawg]

I wonder if this Ribeiro on waivers thing helps Nashville towards a deal to Duchene?

What about:
Fabbro
Fiala
1st
Ellis
Ribeiro (when he inevitably clears)

Now tell me how bad it is haha. Rumored ask price is 3-4 high end pieces, well there they are.

Does that include Duchene and Landeskog?

 

[Captain Mountain]

But he does play heavy minutes in Edmonton and he does good.

He doesn't. Klef-Larsson and Sekera-Russell all play around 20-22 minutes a game and both pairs generally face the same level of competition. Klef-Larsson is the 1st pair, but not to the degree of most other teams. And certainly not compared to the competition Larsson faced last year.

 

[Ivan13]

He doesn't. Klef-Larsson and Sekera-Russell all play around 20-22 minutes a game and both pairs generally face the same level of competition. Klef-Larsson is the 1st pair, but not to the degree of most other teams. And certainly not compared to the competition Larsson faced last year.

Larsson's pairing play against other team's top lines, he faces the toughest competition playing on a playoff contender in a tough division. He is a top pairing D.

 

[LondonKendrick]

So Sakic is demanding a package like Atlanta received from Pittsburgh for Hossa? Ask for that many parts you got get any quality.

 

[HollaHaula]

So Sakic is demanding a package like Atlanta received from Pittsburgh for Hossa? Ask for that many parts you got get any quality.

Hossa was also a rental, which likely lowered his value.