Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[tucker3434]

To maximize his value? Yes

As an example, MTL could very well sign Shipachev this summer without giving any assets away, then Colorado lose a very good dancing partner since Im pretty sure Bergevin will be one of the most active Gms at the deadline in that Duchene file..

Im also wondering if Avls fans are willing to accept 2 more years of mediocrity and risk to lose Duchene without getting any young assets when his contract expires..

We could just re-sign him next summer. We aren't going to lose him for nothing. This isn't a ROR situation.

 

[Legend123]

We could just re-sign him next summer. We aren't going to lose him for nothing. This isn't a ROR situation.

lol you really think with how bad the team is and how consistently they have shopped him around that he would just yeah lets re-sign here in Colorado?? You're dreaming.

 

[Goldenhands]

We could just re-sign him next summer. We aren't going to lose him for nothing. This isn't a ROR situation.

Does Duchene want to be part of a rebuilding team and live that season again and again for the next 4-5 years?

 

[tucker3434]

Have you guys seen the UFA crops recently? There's a reason they're all terrible. Almost everyone re-signs if given a decent offer.

You guys are the ones dreaming if you think that isn't the case.

 

[Legend123]

Have you guys seen the UFA crops recently? There's a reason they're all terrible. Almost everyone re-signs if given a decent offer.

You guys are the ones dreaming if you think that isn't the case.

Im 100% sure he will not re-sign in Col

 

[tucker3434]

Im 100% sure he will not re-sign in Col

Well that certainly means a lot.

 

[EdAVSfan]

lol you really think with how bad the team is and how consistently they have shopped him around that he would just yeah lets re-sign here in Colorado?? You're dreaming.

If that's the case, they'll trade him int the final year. Like ror

 

[General Fanager]

If that's the case, they'll trade him int the final year. Like ror

and watch his value plumett

 

[tucker3434]

and watch his value plumett

Yes, like ROR the mercenary, doing anything he could to get to UFA. He was never going to get more than a 2nd+b prospect.

I feel like we're going round and round here.

 

[General Fanager]

Yes, like ROR the mercenary, doing anything he could to get to UFA. He was never going to get more than a 2nd+b prospect.

I feel like we're going round and round here.

was ror not a RFA when that was done?


Duchene now is much more valuable than as a pending UFA, this isnt exactly rocket science

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

was ror not a RFA when that was done?


Duchene now is much more valuable than as a pending UFA, this isnt exactly new

ROR would have been a UFA.

 

[DarthProbert]

ROR would have been a UFA.

If he didn't sign an extension. By the same logic, every single player in the league "would have been a UFA."

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

If he didn't sign an extension. By the same logic, every single player in the league "would have been a UFA."

...Uh, what? The guy asked if after ROR's contract expired if he was going to be an RFA. The answer to that would be no, he would have been a UFA. That's exactly what I said. The Buffalo Sabres traded for a player that had one year under contract prior to UFA, and there was no guarantee that he would sign an extension at the time of the trade. It's not like the Avs traded ROR with an extension already in place.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

asking price is not ridiculous. Duchene is a 70 point player on a competent team

 

[edguy]

asking price is not ridiculous. Duchene is a 70 point player on a competent team

The issue is for a player like Duchene, teams want to pay for what he is, a 55-60 point center, not what he could be, a 70+ pts center.

 

[Mersss]

asking price is not ridiculous. Duchene is a 70 point player on a competent team

He notched 70pts ONCE in his career... He's a 55-60pts C.

ROR was a 50pts C with Selke caliber 2way play. His value was, and prob still is higher then Duchene's value.

I'm pretty sure h'ell get a D Prospect like Sergachev + 2nd + Plekanec OR Juulsen + 1st + Plekanec

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Sakic doesn't need to or have to trade Duchene. You're missing the entire point. The price on Duchene is high because Sakic has all the leverage in a trade.

People need to get this through their thick skulls. Duchene does not have to be traded.

Sakic is doing his job of entertaining offers. If a team doesn't want to pay the price then fine. Avs fans would largely rather keep one of their best players.

Agree on Sakic just doing his job.

Disagree on Sakic having leverage in a deal. I see this as a situation where neither team HAS to make a deal, so normal "hockey trade value" applies. It is likely that neither GM would have leverage, so Sakic expecting way too much (IMO) just means that likely no deal gets done.

Poile is a long term thinker, so NASH isn't going to move the 3-4 key assets that Joe is asking for, and I doubt that Francis makes that kind of deal when the Canes are better of seeing if they can make a deal around expansion.

Only way JS has leverage is if there is a team that a GM will lose his job unless his team makes the play-offs, and they see Duchene as a difference maker. No one is jumping to mind that meets that criteria. (Islanders maybe?)

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Have you guys seen the UFA crops recently? There's a reason they're all terrible. Almost everyone re-signs if given a decent offer.

You guys are the ones dreaming if you think that isn't the case.

Unless something changes in COL, why would MD extend?

Please note I am not saying he is going to leave, just that you shouldn't just blindly assume that hebwill re-sign. Did Parise sign with the Devils? Nielsen with the Islanders? Sometimes guys want to go, and playing in a TERRIBLE situation, and being shopped aren't strong motivators to sign an extension.

 

[Avs44]

Agree on Sakic just doing his job.

Disagree on Sakic having leverage in a deal. I see this as a situation where neither team HAS to make a deal, so normal "hockey trade value" applies. It is likely that neither GM would have leverage, so Sakic expecting way too much (IMO) just means that likely no deal gets done.

Poile is a long term thinker, so NASH isn't going to move the 3-4 key assets that Joe is asking for, and I doubt that Francis makes that kind of deal when the Canes are better of seeing if they can make a deal around expansion.

Unless there is a team that a GM will lose his job unless his team makes the play-offs.

Sakic has one big advantage: He's probably got 10+ teams interested. I believe one insider (McKenzie or Friedman?) mentioned 13 teams interested in Duchene at one point. And Sakic is probably the only GM in the league willing to sell a signed 26 year old top line forward for future based pieces. He can look at multiple options, other GM's wanting to significantly improve their club without losing big pieces from their roster probably can't. That does give him leverage over individual GM's, because he can always walk away and probably get a similiar offer elsewhere, they can't.


It will be particularly interesting this off-season I think if Sakic can't get what he wants now. The UFA free agent crop, assuming Radulov re-signs in Montreal, which I think is reasonable, is going to be abysmal. Obviously a few of last years free agent signings busted, but in terms of genuine top 6 forward talent entering free agency, you had Lucic, Ladd, Okposo, Backes, Eriksson, and Nielsen, then in terms of the more tweener variety you had Brouwer, Boedker, Perron, and then you had two talented reclamation sort of types in Vanek and Staal. This year, assuming no Radulov, you have Oshie, then a host of much older guys: Thornton (might easily re-sign), Marleau (ditto), Vanek, Sharp, Vrbata, Williams, Hanzal, and Bonino. I think there's a good chance two of those guys (Marleau and Thornton) will be re-upped by the Sharks, which makes that a very, very thin list in terms of genuine top 6 forward talent that isn't on its last legs.


If teams this off-season want to add top 6 calibre forwards they can't go money-happy and try to buy a solution, I think they will have to trade or stand pat - and some teams and GM's very well might not have the option to just do nothing. I think around the draft and at the beginning of free agency will be when there is a very high demand for what the Avs are offering.

 

[Foppberg]

He notched 70pts ONCE in his career... He's a 55-60pts C.

ROR was a 50pts C with Selke caliber 2way play. His value was, and prob still is higher then Duchene's value.

I'm pretty sure h'ell get a D Prospect like Sergachev + 2nd + Plekanec OR Juulsen + 1st + Plekanec

When he's had chemistry and a competent team around him he was close to point per game twice. You fail to mention his 70 points came in 71 games, and the year before he had 43 points in 47 games during the lockout.

No chance ROR had/has more value than Duchene.

 

[AslanRH]

No chance ROR had/has more value than Duchene.

I disagree only in the sense that Murray wanted ROR like Avs fans would want Hedman or Doughty if they were available. League wide though, you would be correct IMO

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Sakic has one big advantage: He's probably got 10+ teams interested. I believe one insider (McKenzie or Friedman?) mentioned 13 teams interested in Duchene at one point. And Sakic is probably the only GM in the league willing to sell a signed 26 year old top line forward for future based pieces. He can look at multiple options, other GM's wanting to significantly improve their club without losing big pieces from their roster probably can't. That does give him leverage over individual GM's, because he can always walk away and probably get a similiar offer elsewhere, they can't.


It will be particularly interesting this off-season I think if Sakic can't get what he wants now. The UFA free agent crop, assuming Radulov re-signs in Montreal, which I think is reasonable, is going to be abysmal. Obviously a few of last years free agent signings busted, but in terms of genuine top 6 forward talent entering free agency, you had Lucic, Ladd, Okposo, Backes, Eriksson, and Nielsen, then in terms of the more tweener variety you had Brouwer, Boedker, Perron, and then you had two talented reclamation sort of types in Vanek and Staal. This year, assuming no Radulov, you have Oshie, then a host of much older guys: Thornton (might easily re-sign), Marleau (ditto), Vanek, Sharp, Vrbata, Williams, Hanzal, and Bonino. I think there's a good chance two of those guys (Marleau and Thornton) will be re-upped by the Sharks, which makes that a very, very thin list in terms of genuine top 6 forward talent that isn't on its last legs.


If teams this off-season want to add top 6 calibre forwards they can't go money-happy and try to buy a solution, I think they will have to trade or stand pat - and some teams and GM's very well might not have the option to just do nothing. I think around the draft and at the beginning of free agency will be when there is a very high demand for what the Avs are offering.

Agree in principle, but the number of teams that called don't really matter if Sakic is asking for a HUGE premium. A sane GM isn't going to move a minimum of 3 high value pieces for Duchene. That would in all likelyhood be the easiest way to get fired.

 

[H a w k s*]

Colorado would be wise to just hold onto him. Right now it's buyer's market because no contender is going to gut their team to get duchene. They may do that when they can pick up a guy in FA.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Colorado would be wise to just hold onto him. Right now it's buyer's market because no contender is going to gut their team to get duchene. They may do that when they can pick up a guy in FA.

Lol who are they gonna pick up in FA? The only forward worth mentioning is Oshie, assuming Thornton and Marleau re-sign.

 

[Legend123]

The problem for the habs is that by acquiring Duchene, they pretty much give up on signing Shipacyov, whom they had real strong interest in him before the playoffs were even done. They can acquire Duchene but why give up a premium prospect like Sergechev when they can just wait another season before getting a player, who's prob already better than Duchene, for free. Its pretty much half a year of Duchene vs Sergs career, which I absolutely doubt the Habs would even consider.