Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Ivan13]

There are lots of examples of players who go to UFA after their 3rd contract to cash in (Like Duchene is in line to do after his current contract). It's the norms of the NHL. Some players stay with their current team for their whole careers but it's very rare in today's NHL. Players and their agents have control after they go through a contract that takes them beyond the minimum 7 years of RFA. It's how the CBA is set up.

Your not arguing against me. Your arguing against the typical trends of the NHL in today's game. I'm just pointing out to you what those trends are.

Players of Duchene's caliber that the team is actively trying to re-sign?

 

[Perratrooper]

I know it's not the Aves problem but the Habs can't afford to trade both Beaulieu and Juulsen.

I mean it sounds like Sergachev is off the table, which is understandable, but I think this is fairly close to fair, the first round pick will likely be 24-30 both years. Beaulieu isn't a legitimate top 4 dman from what I can gauge. The Habs are getting a top 6 forward who boarder-lines elite for no core players and really a lot of question marks.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I didn't edit a thing in my post.

Well neither did I when I replied but I went back and there is magically a 3rd sentence now. Hmmmm?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I mean it sounds like Sergachev is off the table, which is understandable, but I think this is fairly close to fair, the first round pick will likely be 24-30 both years. Beaulieu isn't a legitimate top 4 dman from what I can gauge. The Habs are getting a top 6 forward who boarder-lines elite for no core players and really a lot of question marks.

There is not real truth on what's the true value. It all comes down to what's the best offer and how the Aves use other teams to bid against each other. The Habs just can't give up Beaulieu and Juulsen as this leaves them very very very thin on D in future years. Defense wins championships too!

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

The only expendable D-man the Avalanche would want would be sergachev. Even that would need to be paired with picks + a cap dump for the habs.

My guess would be sergachev + 1st in 2017/18 (colo's choice) + Another prospect + Desharnais

Wouldn't do it if I were the habs though

 

[Perratrooper]

There is not real truth on what's the true value. It all comes down to what's the best offer and how the Aves use other teams to bid against each other. The Habs just can't give up Beaulieu and Juulsen as this leaves them very very very thin on D in future years. Defense wins championships too!

That's why we send Beauch the other way to mitigate the loss of Beaulieu currently, the Habs are pushing for the cup aren't they? So I mean sometimes you gotta sell out to get where you want to be.

 

[Ivan13]

Well neither did I when I replied but I went back and there is magically a 3rd sentence now. Hmmmm?

I'm might be blind or going insane, but the post you quoted looks exactly the same as my post and there is no edit note in the footer off it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Players of Duchene's caliber that the team is actively trying to re-sign?

Yes. If the trade goes down and the Habs try to resign Duchene, it will be north of $6M and not sure they can afford it at that point. The Cap error has complicated this. And who even knows if Duchene even wants to stay in Montreal. If the Habs play hard ball on contract negotiations due to cap space (which is what you do with RFA's), then Duchene and his agent just walk and go into free agency because he has earned his UFA rights.

It's an issue because most guys who complete their 3rd contract are in their late 20's or early 30's when some say the modest decline starts to happen. Then the team has to make a tough decision on signing a monster contract for a guy who will be in his mid to later 30's at then end of it.

 

[Ivan13]

Yes. If the trade goes down and the Habs try to resign Duchene, it will be north of $6M and not sure they can afford it at that point. The Cap error has complicated this. And who even knows if Duchene even wants to stay in Montreal. If the Habs play hard ball on contract negotiations due to cap space (which is what you do with RFA's), then Duchene and his agent just walk and go into free agency.

Who? When?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Who? When?

Backes, Parise, Suter, Lucic, to name a few of the top of my head. Tavaras will be another one maybe. Just take a look every year at the pending UFA free agent signings. Like I said over and over again... there is a 50/50 chance Duchene resigns with the team that acquires him (if traded). It's risky to acquire Duchene and give up premium elite level talent when he can decide to walk after his contract.

 

[Perratrooper]

Is it believed that Serg>Beaulieu+Juulsen

 

[Osprey]

Smith, Wilson and Jarnkrok will likely be left unprotected as of now and two of the three probably period. The Top 4 D, the three you mentioned and Arvy will be protected now IMO.

Arvidsson will be protected over all of them.

That's what I thought until I looked at CapFriendly, where Arvidsson is listed as a player who doesn't "meet the exposure requirements." I guess that I interpreted that incorrectly and that, even though the rules require you to expose players who are under contract for 2017-18, Vegas can still choose RFAs (like Arvidsson) who are not, if they prefer them over the exposed players. In that case, I think that the rules really ought to have clarified that, since it's led to a lot of confusion, mine included.

 

[GravesDanger]

That's what I thought until I looked at CapFriendly, where Arvidsson is listed as a player who doesn't "meet the exposure requirements." I guess that I read it incorrectly and that, even though the rules require you to expose players who are under contract for 2017-18, Vegas can still choose RFAs (like Arvidsson) who are not. In that case, I think that the rules really ought to have clarified that, since I think that it's led to a lot of confusion, mine included.

Exempt = doesn't need to be protected and can not be selected by LV

Doesn't meet requirements = is exposed if not protected, and can be selcted by LV, but does not count toward fulfilling the specified exposure quotas required from each team.

 

[Osprey]

Exempt = doesn't need to be protected and can not be selected by LV

Doesn't meet requirements = is exposed if not protected, and can be selcted by LV, but does not count toward fulfilling the specified exposure quotas required from each team.

Yeah, I get that now, but I bet that I'm far from the only person to think, for a time, that the players who are exposed are the only ones who could be selected. The very term "exposed" suggests as much and the rules (at least the version that the NHL has up for the fans on its website) never say whom the expansion team can select, forcing fans to make assumptions. They could've added your much better description as clarification and it would've alleviated a lot of the misunderstanding over the past year.

 

[NSH615]

That's what I thought until I looked at CapFriendly, where Arvidsson is listed as a player who doesn't "meet the exposure requirements." I guess that I interpreted that incorrectly and that, even though the rules require you to expose players who are under contract for 2017-18, Vegas can still choose RFAs (like Arvidsson) who are not, if they prefer them over the exposed players. In that case, I think that the rules really ought to have clarified that, since it's led to a lot of confusion, mine included.

Arvidsson can be selected as he has played more than 2 pro seasons and if he is selected, that counts as Nashville's player taken. It was announced a few months ago.

And the same goes for RFAs, who obviously are younger. Any RFAs left unprotected for the expansion draft can become property of the Vegas franchise if they agree to terms on a new contract within that 48-hour window.

http://www.tsn.ca/lebrun-vegas-to-get-head-start-on-free-agency-1.594178

 

[Perratrooper]

What about..

Duchene and landeskog For Ekholm,smith,fabbro and fiala

Not even close. We'd have to be getting Josi to trade both to a central division rival.

 

[puckluck33*]

JDL for Patrik Berglund in the last year of his contract maybe Montreal has to throw in a 3rd.

 

[Gh24]

Beauchemin has to be protected in the expansion draft. NO.

Someone please refresh my memory. Was it only if NTC/NMC has not yet come into effect, that the acquiring team can choose not to honor this clause?

One benefit from trading Ekholm is that we could then protect Johansen, Forsberg, Neal, Duchene, Arvidsson, Jarnkrok and one of Smith or Wilson.

If we had to protect 4 dmen even after the trade, not only do we most likely lose Arvidsson, we don't get rid of one of Smith's or Wilson's contracts that we probably would in the protection scenario above.

 

[Soundgarden]

Someone please refresh my memory. Was it only if NTC/NMC has not yet come into effect, that the acquiring team can choose not to honor this clause?

One benefit from trading Ekholm is that we could then protect Johansen, Forsberg, Neal, Duchene, Arvidsson, Jarnkrok and one of Smith or Wilson.

If we had to protect 4 dmen even after the trade, not only do we most likely lose Arvidsson, we don't get rid of one of Smith's or Wilson's contracts that we probably would in the protection scenario above.

We'd most likely strike up an agreement with Vegas about not picking Arvidsson in that case. Pick(s) or someone like Aberg would probably get that done IMO.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Someone please refresh my memory. Was it only if NTC/NMC has not yet come into effect, that the acquiring team can choose not to honor this clause?

One benefit from trading Ekholm is that we could then protect Johansen, Forsberg, Neal, Duchene, Arvidsson, Jarnkrok and one of Smith or Wilson.

If we had to protect 4 dmen even after the trade, not only do we most likely lose Arvidsson, we don't get rid of one of Smith's or Wilson's contracts that we probably would in the protection scenario above.

This is ONLY the case if the NTC/NMC has not come into effect at the time of the trade (i.e. Subban). Beauchemin has a NMC right now, so any team acquiring him has to honour it for the expansion draft or any further transactions.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Beauchemin would be a decent stop gap, but like others have pointed out, the NMC is a problem. Not only would he have to waive to go to Nashville, he'd have to be willing to be exposed to expansion. He's got his Cup and a comfy contract. Wouldn't surprise me if he just wants to stay put.

 

[TOGuy14]

poile has gone from incredibly gunshy to guns a blazing over the past year

i mean he makes sense, nashville needs a top-6 c pretty badly. i dont see what theyd give up tho.

Hasn't this been the case since the franchise entered the league?

Nashville and Toronto are the two teams forever chasing that #1C

 

[ThirdManIn]

Hasn't this been the case since the franchise entered the league?

Nashville and Toronto are the two teams forever chasing that #1C

Meh they have the 1C. What they need is a 2C, especially since both Ribeiro and Fisher are, in hockey years, geezers.

 

[AMDZen]

Hasn't this been the case since the franchise entered the league?

Nashville and Toronto are the two teams forever chasing that #1C

Forgetting St Louis?

 

[cgf]

I don't really know either of them well, just was trying to create a scenario involving teams I saw that have 'inquired'.

All the same, I really don't see the Johansen-Jones swap nor the Hall-Larsson swap.

I think it's a three/four piece package a la O'reilly. Shame Zadorov hasn't been a bigger help to the Avalanche but that doesn't mean you nix deals of that like, look at the Bobby Ryan trade that has ended up better for the Ducks.

? Zadorov is one of the Avs' only bright spots this season...