Dreger: Duchene Mega-thread: Habs, NSH inquired about Duchene. Asking price is ridiculous.

[Debrincat93]

fiala, girard, 1st?

 

[Ivan13]

you realize that Provorov only had 14 points more then sergachev last year in junior and Sergachev was 17 and Provorov was 19. There is a huge difference between a 17 year old and a 19 year old.

at 18 they are both PPG players in junior. there is no real difference.

PRovorov is 20. we will see in two years where Serg is at in his developpement but at equal age there is not much difference only that serg won d man of the year at 17 in the O

Progression isn't linear and all prospects are not the same. I actively follow Sergy and I had the chance to watch Provorov in his draft year as well, Ivan is or better said was more polished in his draft year. Is it possible that Sergy ends up better than Ivan? Yes. Would I count on it as a likely scenario? No. And I absolutely love Sergy as a player.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I could see something centered around Ekholm and a high end prospect, but I would try to engineer a deal that sent a d-man back to Nashville to fill in the gap. Josi is reportedly almost ready to come back from injury, but we'd still need someone to step in. Beauchemin, maybe?

Beauchemin has to be protected in the expansion draft. NO.

 

[Beautvillier]

I'd be surprised if teams hadn't tried to acquire Duchene.

 

[Debrincat93]

That seems awfully small for Duchene.

same GM who moved ROR for Grigs and Zadorov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Progression isn't linear and all prospects are not the same. I actively follow Sergy and I had the chance to watch Provorov in his draft year as well, Ivan is or better said was more polished in his draft year. Is it possible that Sergy ends up better than Ivan? Yes. Would I count on it as a likely scenario? No. And I absolutely love Sergy as a player.

Provorov is 2 years older than Sergachev. I hope to god he would be considered better on the ice at this stage. Lets wait for another 2 more years of Sergachev to see where he is at when he turns 20?

 

[EdAVSfan]

That's just it. In any debate, there are examples to support any side but then there is debating against typical trends. There is just not many situations where guys hold out and sign QA until they serve the minimum 7 years of RFA and then walk. Most (like 95% or higher) elite level players are signed till there later 20's or early 30's over 2 contracts (ELC and long term) or 3 contracts (ELC, Bridge, then another contract). Duchene is on his 3rd contract and he more than likely goes to UFA unless the team acquiring him shows him the money and he wants to stay of course! It's risky for the team acquiring him to give up premium elite level assets with the risk of losing him in 2.5 seasons.

That's the whole debate here in determining Duchene's true value. Which is the real reason why the Aves are considering to trade him now before the value goes down!

I'm not arguing with you about this anymore.

Players, at the quality level of duchene, RARELY make it to UFA. Because teams sign them.

You can go on and on about 2.5 years being short term, but it won't change my opinion. The avs are trying to fix their team, and to do that, they need to fix their defense.

There's even more risk for the avs in trading for a prospect.

There's not a single reputable reporter that's talked about 2.5 years or his salary in a negative light. Only HFposters like you. When I start hearing that GMs have an issue with his contract m, then I'll believe it.

But hearing it from people on here, with no factual evidence to back them up, is as worthless as the gum underneath my shoe.

 

[IME]

Would the Avs have interest in goaltender Juuse Saros?

Saros, a D prospect, and a depth center.

 

[Ivan13]

Provorov is 2 years older than Sergachev. I hope to god he would be considered better on the ice at this stage. Lets wait for another 2 more years of Sergachev to see where he is at when he turns 20?

Good thing I'm not comparing today's Provorov to Sergy.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Would the Avs have interest in goaltender Juuse Saros?

Saros, a D prospect, and a depth center.

**** no. That would be beyond stupid for Nashville.

 

[nomorekids]

Would the Avs have interest in goaltender Juuse Saros?

Saros, a D prospect, and a depth center.

Saros isn't available.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Habs are close if they acquire Duchene but they still have plenty of good teams to go through to win the Cup. I say the Habs chances to win goes up with Duchene but the chances of winning are still not great! Then, in 3 years, Duchene walks and Sergachev is a top pairing Defensman with the Aves on a great team controlled contract (maybe, probably, projects..etc). It's Ryan M for Gomez all over again for the Habs. MB will not do it!

Said it a hundred times... I'd trade Sergachev in a package deal for Duchene but only if Duchene was signed long term. Lets say 4 or 5 years beyond this year at least. Duchene's next contract will be north of $6M for sure! So that creates cap problems for the Habs and it's the same off season Patch has to be re-signed. Which is the off season after when Price has to be resigned.

Your cap problems, aren't the avs problems. Do you think sakic cares about what issues you have 3 years down the road. Hes not going to accept less than what he wants just because the habs can't settle their cap in 2 and a half years from now.

If Montreal feels it's a problem down the line, it's fine, the avs will deal with someone who projects duchene into their lineup long term.

 

[Perratrooper]

I have no problem with the Canadiens offering fair value (even overpaying a little) but Sergachev is (or should be) 100% off limits.

If the Habs go over the top and offer...

Plekanec, Beaulieu, Scherbak, Juulsen and a 1st... I want to see a team beat that offer. The Avs have "star players" but they need a "team." 4 pieces and a 1st round pick from the Canadiens for Duchene is a big package and definitely better than what the Leafs received for Kessel... by quite a bit.

Now could we throw Beauch for DD in there? so final trade:

Beauch, Duchene for Plekanec, DD, Beaulieu, Scherbak, Juulsen, 2018 first

 

[nomorekids]

Beauchemin has to be protected in the expansion draft. NO.

So did Ekholm.

We're in pretty good shape as far as the expansion draft goes. Worst case we lose Jarnkrok, which sucks because he's a versatile bottom six player but ultimately liveable. Best case, we lose a bad contract in the form of Colin Wilson or Craig Smith.

 

[Soundgarden]

Would the Avs have interest in goaltender Juuse Saros?

Saros, a D prospect, and a depth center.

Saros is off-limits, he replaces Rinne as soon as next season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your cap problems, aren't the avs problems. Do you think sakic cares about what issues you have 3 years down the road. Hes not going to accept less than what he wants just because the habs can't settle their cap in 2 and a half years from now.

If Montreal feels it's a problem down the line, it's fine, the avs will deal with someone who projects duchene into their lineup long term.

The post I was referring too was about how close the Habs were to a Cup if they acquired Duchene. They would be closer than they are now but even though I'm a die hard Habs fan, I'd bet money that there is no cup in 3 try's with Duchene in the line-up so no need to overpay and get desperate by trading Sergachev and the causing cap problems when Duchene's current contract is over and needs a new one.

 

[Habitant le colon]

So to recap the whole thing many seems to say :

Sergachev Beaulieu Juulsen + Gallagher + 1st vs God Duchene

will they bang their head on the wall or throw themselve trough a windows if they get :

DD Beaulieu 1st 2017 + 2nd 2018 ???

Rare quality player vs Journalists rumors .... shall we make a thread on the purpose or laugh out loud ?!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Now could we throw Beauch for DD in there? so final trade:

Beauch, Duchene for Plekanec, DD, Beaulieu, Scherbak, Juulsen, 2018 first

I know it's not the Aves problem but the Habs can't afford to trade both Beaulieu and Juulsen.

 

[Soundgarden]

So did Ekholm.

We're in pretty good shape as far as the expansion draft goes. Worst case we lose Jarnkrok, which sucks because he's a versatile bottom six player but ultimately liveable. Best case, we lose a bad contract in the form of Colin Wilson or Craig Smith.

If we picked up Duchene though, we'd need to protect him and Beauchemin, I'm assuming because of a NMC, which means Arvy would be exposed. We could always promise something to Vegas, but that's spending assets that we could easily avoid.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

So did Ekholm.

We're in pretty good shape as far as the expansion draft goes. Worst case we lose Jarnkrok, which sucks because he's a versatile bottom six player but ultimately liveable. Best case, we lose a bad contract in the form of Colin Wilson or Craig Smith.

I assumed he means Beauchemin has some kind of NMC/NTC that requires he be protected. That means we trade Ekholm and then lose Ellis in the expansion draft (barring a trade of other assets to Vegas to not select him).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good thing I'm not comparing today's Provorov to Sergy.

I replied before you edited your post and added the last part. You must of known I would of pointed out the age difference

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not arguing with you about this anymore.

Players, at the quality level of duchene, RARELY make it to UFA. Because teams sign them.

You can go on and on about 2.5 years being short term, but it won't change my opinion. The avs are trying to fix their team, and to do that, they need to fix their defense.

There's even more risk for the avs in trading for a prospect.

There's not a single reputable reporter that's talked about 2.5 years or his salary in a negative light. Only HFposters like you. When I start hearing that GMs have an issue with his contract m, then I'll believe it.

But hearing it from people on here, with no factual evidence to back them up, is as worthless as the gum underneath my shoe.

There are lots of examples of players who go to UFA after their 3rd contract to cash in (Like Duchene is in line to do after his current contract). It's the norms of the NHL. Some players stay with their current team for their whole careers but it's very rare in today's NHL. Players and their agents have control after they go through a contract that takes them beyond the minimum 7 years of RFA. It's how the CBA is set up.

Your not arguing against me. Your arguing against the typical trends of the NHL in today's game. I'm just pointing out to you what those trends are.

 

[Patagonia]

Habs are close if they acquire Duchene but they still have plenty of good teams to go through to win the Cup. I say the Habs chances to win goes up with Duchene but the chances of winning are still not great! Then, in 3 years, Duchene walks and Sergachev is a top pairing Defensman with the Aves on a great team controlled contract (maybe, probably, projects..etc). It's Ryan M for Gomez all over again for the Habs. MB will not do it!

Said it a hundred times... I'd trade Sergachev in a package deal for Duchene but only if Duchene was signed long term. Lets say 4 or 5 years beyond this year at least. Duchene's next contract will be north of $6M for sure! So that creates cap problems for the Habs and it's the same off season Patch has to be re-signed. Which is the off season after when Price has to be resigned.

Habs have to decide if they want to risk missing a chance for the Cup. Worrying about a given ie. Duchene vs potential Sergachev. If there is any team that Duchene would likely sign, it would be the Habs. He is french canadian, northern ON close enough to PQ, idolized the Nords while respecting the Habs (wears #9 for Rocket Richard), follows hockey history and loves this country.

I understand the concerns, but there is no givens and if the Habs want to wait just 2 years for Sergachev to improve the following core of: Weber, Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Radulov, Markov, Petry and Desharnais will all be over 30 years old. The only youthful player remaining is Galchenyuk.

Duchene already signed with a team he loves for below market and getting him now, there is a chance he will do the same. There is a reason the AVs fans love him, works hard, easy to negotiate (never been problems), loved by teammates and respectful. Rare traits with athletes. Waiting until UFA, his market value for a 28 years old all star will shoot to possibly $8M if he goes to a good team. Take your chances, if the Habs don't get him in a trade with 2 years to convince him to stay...there is limited opportunity they will ever sign him.

 

[Captain Mountain]

So did Ekholm.

We're in pretty good shape as far as the expansion draft goes. Worst case we lose Jarnkrok, which sucks because he's a versatile bottom six player but ultimately liveable. Best case, we lose a bad contract in the form of Colin Wilson or Craig Smith.

Ekholm is a good defenceman that should be protected. Beauchemin is an over-the-hill defenceman than MUST be protected. The difference should be pretty clear.

 

[Ivan13]

I replied before you edited your post and added the last part. You must of known I would of pointed out the age difference

I didn't edit a thing in my post.