LeBrun: Dubois wants out of Winnipeg, will not sign a contract for next season

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You’ve been chiming in a lot so I find it odd that you don’t know even know the career high statistics of the players you’re talking about. I think there’s a lot of that going on in this thread when it comes to talking about players who people have no education on and for whatever reason, you’re a “Montreal fan” gets brought up as an argument point to belittle a fanbases opinion. And I agree there’s a lot of bad sales pitches. That’s because Montreal and Winnipeg don’t make good trade partners but the team with their back against a wall with a player forcing his way out has brought Montreal into the picture with his comments. Habs fans aren’t in a hurry to start giving away assets acquired the past two years to rush and get somebody like PLD.

Yes, exactly.

Montreal wants to get better as a team (who doesn't?), but most of that will need to come internally.

A Dubois trade would make the team obviously better in the short-term and would be sensible IF the combination of players/prospects/picks that need to be sent to reach Winnipeg's ask make sense both short-term AND long-term for the overall competitiveness of the team.

And as you've said, though circumstances (Dubois and his agent actually) seem to push for a Montreal-Dubois reunion, I don't think there is such an obvious "fit" for a trade between Winnipeg and Montreal given the situation and conflicting wants of both teams.

Montreal wants to hold on to talented young players in the hopes that they "make it" in the NHL and become integral parts of the team in the relatively short term, which means they would rather trade veterans and/or picks instead of their top prospects, probably in a quantity-for-quality type of deal which doesn't fit Winnipeg's needs at all.

Montreal, as presently constituted, is also weakest at RHD, and second-weakest at Center although Suzuki/Dach/Dvorak/Evans + guys like Beck, maybe Mesar, Kapanen, and Kidney (+ many picks this year) are not bad depth-wise and in the prospect pool.

But the team will probably look to bolster that position whether with picks at the draft or UFA (Monahan?) and so most likely will not want to trade the most valuable young pieces from that depth chart if the deal is for a guy like Dubois (hence why Suzuki and Dach would most likely be non-starters).

Whereas Winnipeg has almost exactly the same needs as Montreal and would most likely want young-ish pieces at center or RHD that are already somewhat established and trending very well, + picks and other pieces to match the value in a potential Dubois trade.

For a young-ish clear #1 center with close to PPG production Montreal would trade Dach+#5+other assets in a package, but Dubois, although really good, is not at that level.

So yeah, interests align, but no bueno on the trade fit.

In fact, I think LA might, and should given where they are in the midst of their rebuild, offer better value than our front office would feel is the best we could realistically do in a trade package for Dubois. And that could tilt things in their favor, if Dubois agrees to sign there of course, but it looks like he would be agreeable to it if reports are true.

In the grand scheme of things, if Montreal wants to be a good team in the future, then we will need to see continued growth for guys like Caufield, Dach (both only 22, and yet to reach their ceiling IMO) and Nick Suzuki (started to become better at dealing with tougher assignments last year).

In addition, some of their forward prospects will also need to show improvements and establish themselves as more than just depth pieces (like Slafkovsky, 2023 #5 overall pick most likely, Farrell, Roy, Heineman, Beck, Kidney, Mesar, etc.).

But the sheer number of pieces that the Canadiens have that show promise could mean they hit on a couple and end up in a much better spot talent and depth-wise in two years or so than they are now.

And we should also see some improvements from the FIVE rookie defensemen Montreal iced at some points of the season in 2022-2023 that could help elevate the quality of play of the team as soon as next season, but most likely for 2024-2025 as defensemen generally need more time to develop. And with more high-end defensive prospects, like Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom that are highly-regarded and should arrive within the next two-three years, Montreal's future is looking quite bright on the defense.

The goaltending position is suspect at best with guys like Montembeault, Allen, Primeau and Dobes, but there are many goalies available each year and if they're lucky and hit on one, they could rapidly be set for years.

All of that to say that Montreal's path to being relevant again has nothing to do with any trades for Dubois, but rather internal development, smart decisions with the cap, and not leading the NHL for man-games lost like we did the last two seasons (even if you factor-out Price and Byron as season-long LTIR, we were still tops last year).
 
You’ve been chiming in a lot so I find it odd that you don’t know even know the career high statistics of the players you’re talking about. I think there’s a lot of that going on in this thread when it comes to talking about players who people have no education on and for whatever reason, you’re a “Montreal fan” gets brought up as an argument point to belittle a fanbases opinion. And I agree there’s a lot of bad sales pitches. That’s because Montreal and Winnipeg don’t make good trade partners but the team with their back against a wall with a player forcing his way out has brought Montreal into the picture with his comments. Habs fans aren’t in a hurry to start giving away assets acquired the past two years to rush and get somebody like PLD.
Guilty as charged for not checking their stats before responding to an outlandish post such as saying Dubois will be a CAP DUMP before he turns 30. It is a stretch to suggest I have no education about a player because I was off base by a few points. It is an even bigger stretch to equate this with belittling a fanbase opinion.

My point is still relevant since Suzuki and Dubois are oft compared. I happen to think they are very similarly valued. Suzuki a better all around game. More consistent. Dubois more physical and a better scorer. But overall pretty close. If one 8 year contract is garbage then the other must be too, dont you think?

I have not debased Montreal players to try and make a point. I have frequently chimed in agreeing to a variety of Habs fans proposals where good assets are offered.

And I actually think the teams are good trade partners. We know Montreal management have wanted Dubois for years. Winnipeg has to trade him. Montreal have a bevy of young talent to offer in a trade. Adding Dubois to a young, talented roster is going to help the team get better. They already should be better because they almost certainly wont have the same injury woes again and they will be a year older/more experienced. PLD in your top 6 makes the team better.

And you mention Habs fans are not in a hurry to give away assets...that has not been a suggestion. They would be trading for a big, physical, talented 25 yr old 2C. What exactly do you think "somebody like PLD" is?
 
Yes, exactly.

Montreal wants to get better as a team (who doesn't?), but most of that will need to come internally.

A Dubois trade would make the team obviously better in the short-term and would be sensible IF the combination of players/prospects/picks that need to be sent to reach Winnipeg's ask make sense both short-term AND long-term for the overall competitiveness of the team.

And as you've said, though circumstances (Dubois and his agent actually) seem to push for a Montreal-Dubois reunion, I don't think there is such an obvious "fit" for a trade between Winnipeg and Montreal given the situation and conflicting wants of both teams.

Montreal wants to hold on to talented young players in the hopes that they "make it" in the NHL and become integral parts of the team in the relatively short term, which means they would rather trade veterans and/or picks instead of their top prospects, probably in a quantity-for-quality type of deal which doesn't fit Winnipeg's needs at all.

Montreal, as presently constituted, is also weakest at RHD, and second-weakest at Center although Suzuki/Dach/Dvorak/Evans + guys like Beck, maybe Mesar, Kapanen, and Kidney (+ many picks this year) are not bad depth-wise and in the prospect pool.

But the team will probably look to bolster that position whether with picks at the draft or UFA (Monahan?) and so most likely will not want to trade the most valuable young pieces from that depth chart if the deal is for a guy like Dubois (hence why Suzuki and Dach would most likely be non-starters).

Whereas Winnipeg has almost exactly the same needs as Montreal and would most likely want young-ish pieces at center or RHD that are already somewhat established and trending very well, + picks and other pieces to match the value in a potential Dubois trade.

For a young-ish clear #1 center with close to PPG production Montreal would trade Dach+#5+other assets in a package, but Dubois, although really good, is not at that level.

So yeah, interests align, but no bueno on the trade fit.

In fact, I think LA might, and should given where they are in the midst of their rebuild, offer better value than our front office would feel is the best we could realistically do in a trade package for Dubois. And that could tilt things in their favor, if Dubois agrees to sign there of course, but it looks like he would be agreeable to it if reports are true.

In the grand scheme of things, if Montreal wants to be a good team in the future, then we will need to see continued growth for guys like Caufield, Dach (both only 22, and yet to reach their ceiling IMO) and Nick Suzuki (started to become better at dealing with tougher assignments last year).

In addition, some of their forward prospects will also need to show improvements and establish themselves as more than just depth pieces (like Slafkovsky, 2023 #5 overall pick most likely, Farrell, Roy, Heineman, Beck, Kidney, Mesar, etc.).

But the sheer number of pieces that the Canadiens have that show promise could mean they hit on a couple and end up in a much better spot talent and depth-wise in two years or so than they are now.

And we should also see some improvements from the FIVE rookie defensemen Montreal iced at some points of the season in 2022-2023 that could help elevate the quality of play of the team as soon as next season, but most likely for 2024-2025 as defensemen generally need more time to develop. And with more high-end defensive prospects, like Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom that are highly-regarded and should arrive within the next two-three years, Montreal's future is looking quite bright on the defense.

The goaltending position is suspect at best with guys like Montembeault, Allen, Primeau and Dobes, but there are many goalies available each year and if they're lucky and hit on one, they could rapidly be set for years.

All of that to say that Montreal's path to being relevant again has nothing to do with any trades for Dubois, but rather internal development, smart decisions with the cap, and not leading the NHL for man-games lost like we did the last two seasons (even if you factor-out Price and Byron as season-long LTIR, we were still tops last year).
This was well thought out opinion as to why a trade wouldn't work between Jets/Habs.
 
Guilty as charged for not checking their stats before responding to an outlandish post such as saying Dubois will be a CAP DUMP before he turns 30. It is a stretch to suggest I have no education about a player because I was off base by a few points. It is an even bigger stretch to equate this with belittling a fanbase opinion.

My point is still relevant since Suzuki and Dubois are oft compared. I happen to think they are very similarly valued. Suzuki a better all around game. More consistent. Dubois more physical and a better scorer. But overall pretty close. If one 8 year contract is garbage then the other must be too, dont you think?

I have not debased Montreal players to try and make a point. I have frequently chimed in agreeing to a variety of Habs fans proposals where good assets are offered.

And I actually think the teams are good trade partners. We know Montreal management have wanted Dubois for years. Winnipeg has to trade him. Montreal have a bevy of young talent to offer in a trade. Adding Dubois to a young, talented roster is going to help the team get better. They already should be better because they almost certainly wont have the same injury woes again and they will be a year older/more experienced. PLD in your top 6 makes the team better.

And you mention Habs fans are not in a hurry to give away assets...that has not been a suggestion. They would be trading for a big, physical, talented 25 yr old 2C. What exactly do you think "somebody like PLD" is?
You didn’t even research point totals. I’m suppose to waste my time reading another essay by you pretending you know what you’re talking about? No thanks.
 
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Now that is a good offer. Tons of risk for the Jets. But some real potential.
That’s the equivalent of 4 1st rounders with the Calgary pick only protected in the top 3 for a player the Jets have one year of control left with. Of course you agree to that offer. Its an enormous rip off that would never happen. You adding “it’s a risk for the Jets” doesn’t sway anything either way. What are you expecting?
 
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Yes, exactly.

Montreal wants to get better as a team (who doesn't?), but most of that will need to come internally.

A Dubois trade would make the team obviously better in the short-term and would be sensible IF the combination of players/prospects/picks that need to be sent to reach Winnipeg's ask make sense both short-term AND long-term for the overall competitiveness of the team.

And as you've said, though circumstances (Dubois and his agent actually) seem to push for a Montreal-Dubois reunion, I don't think there is such an obvious "fit" for a trade between Winnipeg and Montreal given the situation and conflicting wants of both teams.

Montreal wants to hold on to talented young players in the hopes that they "make it" in the NHL and become integral parts of the team in the relatively short term, which means they would rather trade veterans and/or picks instead of their top prospects, probably in a quantity-for-quality type of deal which doesn't fit Winnipeg's needs at all.

Montreal, as presently constituted, is also weakest at RHD, and second-weakest at Center although Suzuki/Dach/Dvorak/Evans + guys like Beck, maybe Mesar, Kapanen, and Kidney (+ many picks this year) are not bad depth-wise and in the prospect pool.

But the team will probably look to bolster that position whether with picks at the draft or UFA (Monahan?) and so most likely will not want to trade the most valuable young pieces from that depth chart if the deal is for a guy like Dubois (hence why Suzuki and Dach would most likely be non-starters).

Whereas Winnipeg has almost exactly the same needs as Montreal and would most likely want young-ish pieces at center or RHD that are already somewhat established and trending very well, + picks and other pieces to match the value in a potential Dubois trade.

For a young-ish clear #1 center with close to PPG production Montreal would trade Dach+#5+other assets in a package, but Dubois, although really good, is not at that level.

So yeah, interests align, but no bueno on the trade fit.

In fact, I think LA might, and should given where they are in the midst of their rebuild, offer better value than our front office would feel is the best we could realistically do in a trade package for Dubois. And that could tilt things in their favor, if Dubois agrees to sign there of course, but it looks like he would be agreeable to it if reports are true.

In the grand scheme of things, if Montreal wants to be a good team in the future, then we will need to see continued growth for guys like Caufield, Dach (both only 22, and yet to reach their ceiling IMO) and Nick Suzuki (started to become better at dealing with tougher assignments last year).

In addition, some of their forward prospects will also need to show improvements and establish themselves as more than just depth pieces (like Slafkovsky, 2023 #5 overall pick most likely, Farrell, Roy, Heineman, Beck, Kidney, Mesar, etc.).

But the sheer number of pieces that the Canadiens have that show promise could mean they hit on a couple and end up in a much better spot talent and depth-wise in two years or so than they are now.

And we should also see some improvements from the FIVE rookie defensemen Montreal iced at some points of the season in 2022-2023 that could help elevate the quality of play of the team as soon as next season, but most likely for 2024-2025 as defensemen generally need more time to develop. And with more high-end defensive prospects, like Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom that are highly-regarded and should arrive within the next two-three years, Montreal's future is looking quite bright on the defense.

The goaltending position is suspect at best with guys like Montembeault, Allen, Primeau and Dobes, but there are many goalies available each year and if they're lucky and hit on one, they could rapidly be set for years.

All of that to say that Montreal's path to being relevant again has nothing to do with any trades for Dubois, but rather internal development, smart decisions with the cap, and not leading the NHL for man-games lost like we did the last two seasons (even if you factor-out Price and Byron as season-long LTIR, we were still tops last year).

Yep. the very pieces they would need to get Dubois are gonna be needed for the rebuild. The only hopes for the Habs is that they pray Dubois doesn't sign with nothing more than a year deal with his new team in the the hope they can sign him next year.
 
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Yep. the very pieces they would need to get Dubois are gonna be needed for the rebuild. The only hopes for the Habs is that they pray Dubois doesn't sign with nothing more than a year deal with his new team in the the hope they can sign him next year.

I would assume that the situation gets resolved at draft, but if the impasse drags post July 1st, could some team threat with a one year offer sheet to persuade Winnipeg to make deal?

A team like LA could offer more than 6 million for one year (betting 1st in 2024), for Habs the max would be 4.2 million (2nd in 2024, paying first would be too big of a gamble).

The trick would be that if Winnipeg matches, they will lose Dubois for nothing as they cannot trade him for one year. For Dubois the obvious risk would be that he hurts himself before January and therefore does not get to sign the right year deal he desires.
 
Montreal wants to get better as a team (who doesn't?), but most of that will need to come internally.

A Dubois trade would make the team obviously better in the short-term and would be sensible IF the combination of players/prospects/picks that need to be sent to reach Winnipeg's ask make sense both short-term AND long-term for the overall competitiveness of the team.
Montreal wants to hold on to talented young players in the hopes that they "make it" in the NHL and become integral parts of the team in the relatively short term, which means they would rather trade veterans and/or picks instead of their top prospects, probably in a quantity-for-quality type of deal which doesn't fit Winnipeg's needs at all.

[…]

In addition, some of their forward prospects will also need to show improvements and establish themselves as more than just depth pieces (like Slafkovsky, 2023 #5 overall pick most likely, Farrell, Roy, Heineman, Beck, Kidney, Mesar, etc.).

But the sheer number of pieces that the Canadiens have that show promise could mean they hit on a couple and end up in a much better spot talent and depth-wise in two years or so than they are now.

And we should also see some improvements from the FIVE rookie defensemen Montreal iced at some points of the season in 2022-2023 that could help elevate the quality of play of the team as soon as next season, but most likely for 2024-2025 as defensemen generally need more time to develop. And with more high-end defensive prospects, like Hutson, Mailloux, and Engstrom that are highly-regarded and should arrive within the next two-three years, Montreal's future is looking quite bright on the defense.

[…]

All of that to say that Montreal's path to being relevant again has nothing to do with any trades for Dubois, but rather internal development, smart decisions with the cap, and not leading the NHL for man-games lost like we did the last two seasons (even if you factor-out Price and Byron as season-long LTIR, we were still tops last year).

At the same time the breadth of Montreal’s prospect pool would make the deal with Winnipeg a potential home run. If, and that is a HUGE if, Montreal is able to identify the prospects least likely to make the step successfully and use them to land Dubois, the trade could become a cleansing of ages. Of course there is the risk that Montreal miscalculates and the deal ends up like another Gomez for McDonaugh. The rationale for making the deal, using some of the fresh rookies to pry Dubois and solidify the center position, is there, but it would be a risk as the deal would be based on unknown assets.
 
I would assume that the situation gets resolved at draft, but if the impasse drags post July 1st, could some team threat with a one year offer sheet to persuade Winnipeg to make deal?

A team like LA could offer more than 6 million for one year (betting 1st in 2024), for Habs the max would be 4.2 million (2nd in 2024, paying first would be too big of a gamble).

The trick would be that if Winnipeg matches, they will lose Dubois for nothing as they cannot trade him for one year. For Dubois the obvious risk would be that he hurts himself before January and therefore does not get to sign the right year deal he desires.
Montreal still dont have their second round pick, so if Montreal wanna do an offersheet below a first rounders, jet will have an heads up. Btw do you think PLD even would risk signing it? He wants his longterm deal now.
 
58DBE617-C60B-4468-B87F-B64ACA55523B.jpeg

Caufield and PLD look pretty friendly
 
Of course there is the risk that Montreal miscalculates and the deal ends up like another Gomez for McDonaugh.


I think there is a very good possibility of that happening, as he is already way over hyped,

If PLD becomes a hab (which I doubt) I can see him becoming a Drouin 2.0
 
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Guilty as charged for not checking their stats before responding to an outlandish post such as saying Dubois will be a CAP DUMP before he turns 30. It is a stretch to suggest I have no education about a player because I was off base by a few points. It is an even bigger stretch to equate this with belittling a fanbase opinion.

My point is still relevant since Suzuki and Dubois are oft compared. I happen to think they are very similarly valued. Suzuki a better all around game. More consistent. Dubois more physical and a better scorer. But overall pretty close. If one 8 year contract is garbage then the other must be too, dont you think?

I have not debased Montreal players to try and make a point. I have frequently chimed in agreeing to a variety of Habs fans proposals where good assets are offered.

And I actually think the teams are good trade partners. We know Montreal management have wanted Dubois for years. Winnipeg has to trade him. Montreal have a bevy of young talent to offer in a trade. Adding Dubois to a young, talented roster is going to help the team get better. They already should be better because they almost certainly wont have the same injury woes again and they will be a year older/more experienced. PLD in your top 6 makes the team better.

And you mention Habs fans are not in a hurry to give away assets...that has not been a suggestion. They would be trading for a big, physical, talented 25 yr old 2C. What exactly do you think "somebody like PLD" is?

Yeah, there are some in the Habs herd that even didn't like the Romanov+ for Dach trade and thought we should draft Nasar with the 13th pick we got from the Islanders.

They are treating Dubois like he is age 28+ when he is less than 1 year older than Suzuki.

Habs are in the mix and there are serious talks with the Jets/Habs. We are in a rebuild so our approach is trading assets we can spare due to organization depth. Barron is one we would hesitate to trade cause our RD is thin in the pool. There are pieces we have that can help the Jets.

Would be interesting if the Habs trade up and take Reinbacher (RD) and get another asset to use in the Dubois trade.
 
I think there is a very good possibility of that happening, as he is already way over hyped,

If PLD becomes a hab (which I doubt) I can see him becoming a Drouin 2.0

Drouin is useless if he is not putting up points. Not so much with Dubois. Drouin came at age 21 and Dubois would be age 25 with a more proven track record. Not the same situation or types of players. Comparing Dubois to Drouin is a big reach but if the trade happens where Dubois comes to Montreal, I can see other fans devaluing him because he is a Habs now.

Over hyped? Not really. He is a fringe 1C or an above average 2C and he does have similar value to Suzuki. Just cause he is talked about a lot, it don't mean it's over hyped. It just means the Habs have a lot of fans and the Jets are hearing many different angles on it. I can see why they are tired of it.

Duchene was talked about a lot. I think he is the better comparison vs Drouin. I can see Dubois having multiple seasons of 50, 60, 70, 80. It won't be 60-70 for all 8 seasons. It don't work that way and like I said, he does other things besides points.

View attachment 719363
Caufield and PLD look pretty friendly

Subban's 3 fingers indicates..
1) Former Habs
2) Current Habs
3) Future Habs
 
View attachment 719363
Caufield and PLD look pretty friendly
Looks photo-shopped??

I think there is a very good possibility of that happening, as he is already way over hyped,

If PLD becomes a hab (which I doubt) I can see him becoming a Drouin 2.0
No not a chance...............two different players................
That being said, PLD has never faced pressure, like he could in Montreal.
 
Dubois, Caufield, PK, and who else? Who's drinking Espresso Martinis while wearing sunglasses indoors in the middle of March?

Edit: thought that looked like a St Patrick's day photo, I'm probably wrong

J Hughes and Zegras are the other two. They were in Montreal last weekend watching the formula 1 race.

The guy behind Caufield and Dubois has me wondering.... looks familiar to me and leaves me thinking I should know who he is.
 
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J Hughes and Zegras are the other two. They were in Montreal last weekend watching the formula 1 race.

The guy behind Caufield and Dubois has me wondering.... looks familiar to me and leaves me thinking I should know who he is.
Brisson?
 
If i had to choose i'd rather keep Mailloux over Barron.

Tough call for me. Barron is ahead in development and showing promise in NHL games and Mailloux is raw with a lot of skill and has that size/skating package.

Habs prefer not to trade either but maybe we make Barron available. If we do, we are certainly not adding Beck and Panthers 1st on top. I think we offer one of them (or 2 at most).
 
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Montreal still dont have their second round pick, so if Montreal wanna do an offersheet below a first rounders, jet will have an heads up. Btw do you think PLD even would risk signing it? He wants his longterm deal now.
I think that possibility for one year offer sheet would mostly be used as negotiation tactic. All sides know that it is unlikely solution but Winnipeg could not be sure that it would be just empty talk so making a deal could be better than lose him for a 2nd/1st or nothing.
 
Dubois, Caufield, PK, and who else? Who's drinking Espresso Martinis while wearing sunglasses indoors in the middle of March?

Edit: thought that looked like a St Patrick's day photo, I'm probably wrong
From left to right: PLD, Caufield, Subban, Hughes and Zegras. It was this weekend at the Grand Prix in Montreal.

Looks photo-shopped??
it’s not photoshopped…it’s from PK Instagram
 
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I would assume that the situation gets resolved at draft, but if the impasse drags post July 1st, could some team threat with a one year offer sheet to persuade Winnipeg to make deal?

A team like LA could offer more than 6 million for one year (betting 1st in 2024), for Habs the max would be 4.2 million (2nd in 2024, paying first would be too big of a gamble).

The trick would be that if Winnipeg matches, they will lose Dubois for nothing as they cannot trade him for one year. For Dubois the obvious risk would be that he hurts himself before January and therefore does not get to sign the right year deal he desires.
I'm not sure whether PLD could even accept an offer sheet that is lower than his AAV from last year, but if he did, the Jets match without hesitation and give him third line minutes with no powerplay time the entire season. That's also why Dubois won't accept such a lowball offer sheet - there are tens of millions of dollars on the line, which he will never get back if his contract year goes awry. He's already taking a massive gamble that will probably cost him money. No need to double down with practically no upside.

Also, Montreal cannot make that offer sheet without their own 2nd. Other teams could, but not the Habs.
 
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