Proposal: Dubois for Suzuki

[gojetsgo]

I do think there is some sensitivity at play. Facts are what they are. Jets have the smallest arena, play in one of the smaller markets, and have less local TV revenue than the average team. It's logical that they are forced to be more frugal than other teams with more revenue. Arguing against it is being sensitive IMO.

Will the Jets give PLD $8M for 8 years or will they try for the 3-5 year term around $6M - $7M range? Bookmark it

yes, they have all those things and yet they still spend to the cap.... and yes we 100% will be willing to go 8x8 with pld are you kidding me? oh btw if you argue against this with me, then in my opinion you're just being sensitive

 

[Huffer]

I do think there is some sensitivity at play. Facts are what they are. Jets have the smallest arena, play in one of the smaller markets, and have less local TV revenue than the average team. These are more like facts, not my opinion. I'm only speaking the context cause someone asked me to say why I think they are cheap. It's logical that they are forced to be more frugal than other teams with more revenue. Arguing against it is being sensitive IMO.

Will the Jets give PLD $8M for 8 years or will they try for the 3-5 year term around $6M - $7M range? Bookmark it

Hopefully they lock him in long term. They haven't shied away from locking in their young core players to date (Scheifele, Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey) and gave a 5 year deal to a 33 year old Wheeler. Nothing really points to the Jets not locking up PLD for a longer term if both sides can come to a number that makes sense.

 

[Habs Halifax]

yes, they have all those things and yet they still spend to the cap.... and yes we 100% will be willing to go 8x8 with pld are you kidding me? oh btw if you argue against this with me, then in my opinion you're just being sensitive

Debating opinions vs debating facts are two different things. Have a nice day. Conversation is not heading in a good direction

 

[General Fanager]

Based on what metrics? They have eerily similar stats, both regular season and playoffs.

I feel like the fact that both Jets and Habs fans think their guy is better, means the value is pretty good both ways.

Even if that's true that they are eerily similar. Suzuki is signed forever and PLD wants out according to this fake scenario.

Just that should make everyone choose Suzuki.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hopefully they lock him in long term. They haven't shied away from locking in their young core players to date (Scheifele, Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey) and gave a 5 year deal to a 33 year old Wheeler. Nothing really points to the Jets not locking up PLD for a longer term if both sides can come to a number that makes sense.

The question is are they comfortable paying PLD more than others who signed earlier. Some of those contracts are considered value contracts and no so sure PLD at $8M for 8 years is a value contract. Just like Suzuki. We have come full circle on this now

 

[TFHockey]

Neutral fan here: Is it better for the Jets to sign Dubois at $8 Million or is it better for them to try and deal him before that ? Is that the expected number?

 

[gojetsgo]

The question is are they comfortable paying PLD more than others who signed earlier. Some of those contracts are considered value contracts and no so sure PLD at $8M for 8 years is a value contract. Just like Suzuki. We have come full circle on this now

obviously, we already gave connor a bigger deal then scheifele and laine got more on a bridge as well, we have no problem paying our players when they need to be paid

 

[snowkiddin]

Yes, that's where it started. I doubt they prefer to pay PLD more than the other top players on the same team. Bookmark it. I bet you the term is 3-5 years where they try to lower the AAV and also avoid July signing bonus money.

PLD would be your highest paid player after Wheeler. Ahead of Connor, Scheifele, Ehlers, Hellebuyck. Contract signed at different times yes but we will see how they mange it. PLD is not going to give any discounts in the 6-8 year term so if the Jets want a team friendly AAV, I think they look at 3-5 year range. Might top out around $6.5M ish for that range in term.

Bookmark it. I'm not sensitive to it if I'm wrong

I would be really surprised if the Jets sign him in the 3-5 year range. That's generally not how they've treated their high end RFAs. I can see something like 6x8 working but the Jets may wanna push for a full eight years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

obviously, we already gave connor a bigger deal then scheifele and laine got more on a bridge as well, we have no problem paying our players when they need to be paid

Reasonable yes. Jets may be frugal but they also need to stay competitive. I have my doubts they pay PLD more than your other players who are considered better. We will see what the term is

 

[gojetsgo]

Reasonable yes. Jets may be frugal but they also need to stay competitive. I have my doubts they pay PLD more than your other players who are considered better. We will see what the term is

how? scheifele was considered better then both laine and connor yet both of them got more money then scheifele

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would be really surprised if the Jets sign him in the 3-5 year range. That's generally not how they've treated their high end RFAs. I can see something like 6x8 working but the Jets may wanna push for a full eight years.

That's my point though. If you push for 8 years, he's going to ask for a higher AAV. Agents are not dumb.... the cap will rise significantly once the NHLPA balance is paid off. Is that 2 seasons or 3? Not sure cause Covid needs to go away first! It's affecting revenue.

The preferred AAV the Jets want will come down to term. Habs paid Suzuki more than what he is worth today but the thought process is he is underpaid in the back half of the contract. Will the Jets try the same with PLD and pay him more than your other top players? Not so sure about that. Every situation is different and it comes down to dialog with PLD's agent and what the Jets are comfortable with

 

[Hunter368]

Neutral fan here: Is it better for the Jets to sign Dubois at $8 Million or is it better for them to try and deal him before that ? Is that the expected number?

If term was 8 years same as Suzuki then PLD new deal is more UFA years so yeh he would likely get a bit more then Suzuki

 

[Habs Halifax]

how? scheifele was considered better then both laine and connor yet both of them got more money then scheifele

It's deep with context and not that simple. Timing of what the cap is when you sign the contract, what the cap is expected to grow in the future and what the Jets feel about paying PLD more than the other guys. Just cause they did that with Connor, it don't mean they will with PLD. Not saying it's impossible either

Some players are also not as greedy as others too. Every situation is different.

Anyways, we are getting a little off track now. Back to Suzuki vs PLD. I think both sides say no and I know that I value both guys. I have them as fringe #1C's and above average 2C's. I prefer to keep Suzuki and it's no disrespect to PLD

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

No idea why habs would do this or is it because he is French so we need to be interested?

 

[snowkiddin]

That's my point though. If you push for 8 years, he's going to ask for a higher AAV. Agents are not dumb.... the cap will rise significantly once the NHLPA balance is paid off. Is that 2 seasons or 3? Not sure cause Covid needs to go away first! It's affecting revenue.

The preferred AAV the Jets want will come down to term. Habs paid Suzuki more than what he is worth today but the thought process is he is underpaid in the back half of the contract. Will the Jets try the same with PLD and pay him more than your other top players? Not so sure about that. Every situation is different and it comes down to dialog with PLD's agent and what the Jets are comfortable with

I'm still awaiting the evidence you have to back up this thought, or is this just a baseless opinion?

The Jets did fine extending much of their core to fair deals long term. They paid Connor more than Scheifele even when Connor was seen as a complementary finishing winger and Scheifele was seen as #1C. They gave Laine more on a bridge even though he was also just a scoring winger with holes in his game whereas Scheifele is/was a play driving PPG #1C. The salary cap goes up so contracts that are signed more recently are generally higher than contracts comparable players signed years earlier.

I doubt the Jets have much interest in comparing PLD's contract to Scheifele or Connor. They'll look at comparable contracts (recently) signed around the league and if PLD and the Jets arrive at a number that makes sense, the Jets will sign him - they won't hesitate just because he'd be getting more than Scheifele and Connor.

 

[gojetsgo]

It's deep with context and not that simple. Timing of what the cap is when you sign the contract, what the cap is expected to grow in the future and what the Jets feel about paying PLD more than the other guys. Just cause they did that with Connor, it don't mean they will with PLD. Not saying it's impossible either

Some players are also not as greedy as others too. Every situation is different.

Anyways, we are getting a little off track now. Back to Suzuki vs PLD. I think both sides say no and I know that I value both guys. I have them as fringe #1C's and above average 2C's. I prefer to keep Suzuki and it's no disrespect to PLD

so we go from jets are to cheap to pay pld because of signing bonuses to jets wont want to pay pld because they won't want to pay him more the other players? now you want to move on because were off track? or is it because you already moved the goalposts so much you don't know where else to go

 

[Habs Halifax]

If term was 8 years same as Suzuki then PLD new deal is more UFA years so yeh he would likely get a bit more then Suzuki

Well said. If PLD pushes for max term and AAV, Jets have to manage that carefully. I do believe the Jets are more frugal with their cap strategy than other teams and to be honest, I respect it.

Do the Jets want to trade PLD? Probably not. However, if he pushes for $8M (even in a 6 year deal), do the Jets like it? Not sure

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm still awaiting the evidence you have to back up this thought, or is this just a baseless opinion?

The Jets did fine extending much of their core to fair deals long term. They paid Connor more than Scheifele even when Connor was seen as a complementary finishing winger and Scheifele was seen as #1C. They gave Laine more on a bridge even though he was also just a scoring winger with holes in his game whereas Scheifele is/was a play driving PPG #1C. The salary cap goes up so contracts that are signed more recently are generally higher than contracts comparable players signed years earlier.

I doubt the Jets have much interest in comparing PLD's contract to Scheifele or Connor. They'll look at comparable contracts (recently) signed around the league and if PLD and the Jets arrive at a number that makes sense, the Jets will sign him - they won't hesitate just because he'd be getting more than Scheifele and Connor.

I don't think it's a baseless opinion but it's an opinion you don't agree with. I'm fine with that. You can't provide any facts on what the Jets prefer anymore than I do... unless you actually work for the Jets and are undercover on HF boards?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

When I look at the jets roster I see 6 talented top 6 players on their roster. On the habs we have Suzuki and Toffoli are you guys taking this into account when making your points?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Pure speculation, but lets say rfa PLD tells Chevy he is not willing to sign long term in Winnipeg. Could the jets offer him to Montreal for Suzuki who is locked up long term for 7,8.

Not the same type of players but both have future nr 1C pedigree IMHO.

If PLD would agree to a sign and trade with Montreal, is this a fair hockey trade or would either side have to add anything?

No way either team does it, having said that, I take PLD every day of the week over Suzuki.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No way either team does it, having said that, I take PLD every day of the week over Suzuki.

Based on the past rollercoaster ride, I think this rollercoaster continues. Both those players have very good value as young centers but they have different styles of game. I recall defending PLD's value when he was struggling last year. Go figure.

I personally don't see the incentive for either team making this flip. Trashing one player vs the other is nit picking and throwing jabs but that's what HF boards trade chatter is all about for the most part.

 

[snowkiddin]

I don't think it's a baseless opinion but it's an opinion you don't agree with. I'm fine with that. You can't provide any facts on what the Jets prefer anymore than I do... unless you actually work for the Jets and are undercover on HF boards?

Well, I've provided comparables. The Jets might not want to pay him more than their other top players, you say. They paid Connor and Laine more than Scheifele, I reply.

All you've said is the Jets are a small market team or they won't want to pay PLD more than the others (even though I've provided comparables to in part refute this) as justification for your opinion that the Jets won't wanna sign PLD at $8 million.

So I'm not following your logic here: The Jets are a small market team who won't pay PLD $8 million because then he'll get paid more than the other top players even though, small market or not, the Jets are paying to the cap right now and have signed other players to larger AAVs than their best players signed for.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, I've provided comparables. The Jets might not want to pay him more than their other top players, you say. They paid Connor and Laine more than Scheifele, I reply.

All you've said is the Jets are a small market team or they won't want to pay PLD more than the others (even though I've provided comparables to in part refute this) as justification for your opinion that the Jets won't wanna sign PLD at $8 million.

So I'm not following your logic here: The Jets are a small market team who won't pay PLD $8 million because then he'll get paid more than the other top players even though, small market or not, the Jets are paying to the cap right now and have signed other players to larger AAVs than their best players signed for.

I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying I have my doubts about what the AAV is and where the term ends. I do believe the Jets try to manage the AAV to the lowest possible and how they do that is 3-5 year term vs 6-8. Bookmark it

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Based on the past rollercoaster ride, I think this rollercoaster continues. Both those players have very good value as young centers but they have different styles of game. I recall defending PLD's value when he was struggling last year. Go figure.

I personally don't see the incentive for either team making this flip. Trashing one player vs the other is nit picking and throwing jabs but that's what HF boards trade chatter is all about for the most part.

It's also wrong to insinuate that you know more about what a team will do in terms of contracts with players, than fans of the team, especially based on arguments that are consistently being proven wrong.

I guess that's also what HF boards trade chatter is all about.....

 

[snowkiddin]

I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying I have my doubts about what the AAV is and where the term ends. I do believe the Jets try to manage the AAV to the lowest possible and how they do that is 3-5 year term vs 6-8. Bookmark it

OK. Well, I disagree for the reasons I outlined but if you're correct I'll tip my hat to you because I don't see anything at all that suggest the 3-5 term will be the way both parties go, and I'll be impressed that you were able to forecast it this far in advance despite the signs suggesting the opposite.