Proposal: Dubois for Suzuki

[Habs Halifax]

It's also wrong to insinuate that you know more about what a team will do in terms of contracts with players, than fans of the team, especially based on arguments that are consistently being proven wrong.

I guess that's also what HF boards trade chatter is all about.....

I clearly stated my opinions as well as some other facts. It's a disagreement but some can't handle it

 

[93LEAFS]

Since Suzuki entered the league 3 years ago this is the comparison:

PLD

103 points in 158 games for 0.65 PPG

Suzuki

109 points in 171 games for 0.64 PPG

So that is ignoring that fact that PLD is a year older and had 2 years of NHL experience when Suzuki came into the league. Jets fans will whine that it doesn't take into account that PLD was traded last year, but it also doesn't take into account that Suzuki has been on a team filled with AHLers all season, which is a smidge more difficult to overcome. Suzuki also doesn't have a C like Scheifele to take on the hard match-ups, and he is relied on to do absolutely everything.

I could also go into their head to head match-up in the playoffs last year, but that is such a slam dunk win for Suzuki that any analysis would be a waste of time.

You emphasize PLD being a year older, but then use their first 3 years as a measurement where Suzuki was a year older for each of the comparable seasons, which seems intentionally misleading.

 

[ole ole]

Pure speculation, but lets say rfa PLD tells Chevy he is not willing to sign long term in Winnipeg. Could the jets offer him to Montreal for Suzuki who is locked up long term for 7,8.

Not the same type of players but both have future nr 1C pedigree IMHO.

If PLD would agree to a sign and trade with Montreal, is this a fair hockey trade or would either side have to add anything?

Habs have no interest in trading the better player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

OK. Well, I disagree for the reasons I outlined but if you're correct I'll tip my hat to you because I don't see anything at all that suggest the 3-5 term will be the way both parties go, and I'll be impressed that you were able to forecast it this far in advance despite the signs suggesting the opposite.

It's a guess. That's what we do on the trade threads. Jets want the best contract possible and so does PLD. Do the Jets pay PLD $8M+ for 8 years cause they are buying more UFA years than Suzuki? Not sure but I have my doubts on that. I do think the Jets try to get the best AAV possible and then they look at term. Is 5 or 6 years the best term (bang for buck). Possible. We don't have the advantage of being part of the actual dialog. All we can do is evaluate it when it's announced.

Trying to lock someone up for 8 years requires you to pay. Agents know that the cap will rise after the NHLPA pays their outstanding balance. Probably 2-3 more years and then the cap will sky rocket. Buying UFA years where the cap might be $90M+ is not something agents are going to play nice with. Reality.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I clearly stated my opinions as well as some other facts. It's a disagreement but some can't handle it

Your providing the same point over and over, your being provided with counter arguments, facts and logic, and you consistently fall back on the same argument.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You can have the last word. Reply and I won't read it. There you go, you get the last word and we agree to disagree. Of course you think your opinion has logic. I'm not going to hold that against you though.

I think you provided an argument, you are stuck to that argument, no one can possibly prove you wrong, your being provided with counter-arguments, facts and logic (not by me by the way) and your replying with the same argument, and somehow acting like the person your arguing with is somehow too sensitive to handle your original argument.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think you provided an argument, you are stuck to that argument, no one can possibly prove you wrong, your being provided with counter-arguments, facts and logic (not by me by the way) and your replying with the same argument, and somehow acting like the person your arguing with is somehow too sensitive to handle your original argument.

I'm being provided counter arguments, facts and logic. I think your reaching on that. Counter arguments yes but facts and logic? Just cause it might be 5 against one, it don't make it fact. What facts you talking about? Back it up?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think you provided an argument, you are stuck to that argument, no one can possibly prove you wrong, your being provided with counter-arguments, facts and logic (not by me by the way) and your replying with the same argument, and somehow acting like the person your arguing with is somehow too sensitive to handle your original argument.

I'm being provided counter arguments, facts and logic. I think your reaching on that. Counter arguments yes but facts and logic? Just cause it might be 5 against one, it don't make it fact. What facts you talking about? Back it up?

Or just drop it. It's leading to nowhere.

 

[Huffer]

The question is are they comfortable paying PLD more than others who signed earlier. Some of those contracts are considered value contracts and no so sure PLD at $8M for 8 years is a value contract. Just like Suzuki. We have come full circle on this now

As others have said, over time newly signed contracts leapfrog other already signed contracts. I don't think the Jets would have any issue paying PLD more than Scheifele or Connor if they think it makes sense and gets him signed long term.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As others have said, over time newly signed contracts leapfrog other already signed contracts. I don't think the Jets would have any issue paying PLD more than Scheifele or Connor if they think it makes sense and gets him signed long term.

I said that too though (first sentence)... I think I was the 1st to say it too! Pay attention. The difference is I also said I have my doubts the Jets will pay him more than the other guys and they would prefer to have his AAV closer to the other guys. How they do that is with less term.

Please translate that into me saying the Jets will not give PLD $8M+ for 8 years. . Fun stuff and that other poster wonders why I have to repeat myself.

 

[snowkiddin]

I said that too though (first sentence)... I think I was the 1st to say it too! Pay attention. The difference is I also said I have my doubts the Jets will pay him more than the other guys and they would prefer to have his AAV closer to the other guys. How they do that is with less term.

Please translate that into me saying the Jets will not give PLD $8M+ for 8 years. . Fun stuff and that other poster wonders why I have to repeat myself.

Personally, I think the Jets are cheap and not sure they want to sign PLD for $8M.

So, to be fair, you aren't saying the Jets won't give PLD $8M+, but you are saying you're not sure they will. I'm just interested in why you would have any doubts?

The Jets would have no problem paying PLD more than Scheifele/Connor, IMO. I'm basing this opinion off of how they paid Connor more than Scheifele and how they paid Laine more than Scheifele. And as you acknowledged, as the cap goes up, new contracts are signed at a higher AAV than contracts signed multiple years ago. All of this leads me to believe, without a doubt, that the Jets would be fine with giving PLD more money if they feel he's worth it. I'm wondering if there is any evidence to explain why you would have your doubts on this other than using "just trust me bro" as your source.

I am genuinely curious what signs are there that would point to the Jets being hesitant to sign PLD at (an unspecified) higher AAV than the other players because if these signs do exist then the Jets need to find a way to mitigate them because PLD is an important part of their long term core.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So, to be fair, you aren't saying the Jets won't give PLD $8M+, but you are saying you're not sure they will. I'm just interested in why you would have any doubts?

The Jets would have no problem paying PLD more than Scheifele/Connor, IMO. I'm basing this opinion off of how they paid Connor more than Scheifele and how they paid Laine more than Scheifele. And as you acknowledged, as the cap goes up, new contracts are signed at a higher AAV than contracts signed multiple years ago. All of this leads me to believe, without a doubt, that the Jets would be fine with giving PLD more money if they feel he's worth it. I'm wondering if there is any evidence to explain why you would have your doubts on this other than using "just trust me bro" as your source.

I genuinely curious what signs are there that would point to the Jets being hesitant to sign PLD at (an unspecified) higher AAV than the other players because if these signs do exist then the Jets need to find a way to mitigate them because PLD is an important part of their long term core.

Not going to continue it any further at this point. Bookmark it and we can talk about it when the deal is announced.

 

[King Woodballs]

Horrible for the jets. Pass

 

[broc]

Lol no

Also lol at Habs fans who say Suzuki is better. Enjoy paying that guy almost 8 mil a year for a long long time..

 

[Bouboumaster]

This won't go over well . Montreal fans want to pay 50% of value . For instants . Koskinen cost a 1st ++ to move with months left on his contract . Price at 10.5 M whom has not played a game this year is worth a 1st +++ and more if you want retention .

Ironic, because Edmonton fans seems to want to pay good assets with garbage.

And Price, even tho he hasn't play a game this year, is still >>> Koskinen, because Koskinen is a back-up at best, let's get real here

 

[Bouboumaster]

Lol no

Also lol at Habs fans who say Suzuki is better. Enjoy paying that guy almost 8 mil a year for a long long time..

That's a cocky answer, but let's see how much he'll get this year

 

[Prairie Habs]

You emphasize PLD being a year older, but then use their first 3 years as a measurement where Suzuki was a year older for each of the comparable seasons, which seems intentionally misleading.

No, those aren't their respective first 3 years, they are the most recent 3 years.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

“Oh no people might have a discussion and say things I don’t agree with, so I better whine to have the thread locked.” How about just don’t read the thread then.

It was said in jest. Relax a bit.

 

[10Ducky10]

Contracts overlap in time due to when they start (what the cap it) and when they end (what the cap is). It's basically the same contract you gave Scheifele in 2016.

Scheifele from 13/14 - 15/16 (3 seasons before his current contract kicked in):
* 0.67 pts/game (216 regular season games)
* 0.25 pts/game (4 playoff games)

Suzuki from 18/19 - 20/21 (3 seasons before his current contract kicked in):
* 0.65 pts/game (127 regular season games)
* 0.72 pts/game (32 playoff games)

Add inflation from 16 to 21 and Suzuki's playoff numbers... There is the difference between $6.125M to $7.875M. You going to try to say that Suzuki should have got what Scheifele got in 2016? Go ahead and try but if you do, the point is over your head.

Personally, I think the Jets are cheap and not sure they want to sign PLD for $8M.

No, we want to overpay like the Habs.

 

[Rob Sense]

Hard NO from Mtl although like everyone here i do not have a say in the matter. Not likely a discussion topic between Mtl and Wpg

 

[jellybeans]

Easy no from the Habs.

 

[jfhabs]

That's true but elite players manage to score on bad teams, he does not. He does not seem to have the ability to drive a team, he is a great 2C in the making in my opinion. I just hope this does not end up one more Bergevin panic overpay signing. I think Suzuki vs Dubois depends a lot on what contract Dubois will end up signing. Although as you mentioned if he ends up a winger he will of course lose value.

He's been scoring at a decent pace since Toffoli is back.

 

[Fatass]

Good deal for both teams.

 

[kylbaz]

That's a cocky answer, but let's see how much he'll get this year

Prob close to $8M

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Player-wise, I prefer Suzuki going forward, but asset-wise, I would prefer dealing with Dubois because Suzuki's contract sucks ass.

Neither team will consider that type of trade anyway so it's kinda pointless.