- Nov 24, 2006
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Proposal: Dubois for Suzuki
- Thread starter Easternbull
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This won't go over well . Montreal fans want to pay 50% of value . For instants . Koskinen cost a 1st ++ to move with months left on his contract . Price at 10.5 M whom has not played a game this year is worth a 1st +++ and more if you want retention .
PLD is worth a lot in futures In a hockey trade he worth a top pairing D or a high end winger or a C with 1st line potential . I predict you will be offer a package of lessor parts that are underwhelming .
As for the OP all things being equal I would take PLD over Suzuki . Both are good players I just like the size of PLD better but that is an opinion it isn't base on anything other then what I prefer in a player .
I also predict the sign and trade part of your thread will be ignored .
domiwroze
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Romang67
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Where did I say he only deserved a little raise? Giving him $8M would be a $3M raise, and make him the 15th highest paid center in the league.
Thinking that Suzuki is overpaid as the 19th highest paid center next season hardly seems particularly controversial.
Easternbull
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- Nov 18, 2016
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Interesting banter back and forth. PLD is a absolute physical beast, but Suzuki has better hockey IQ IMHO.
Hopefully Chevy can lock Dubois up for a long deal, but I don't think his father coaching another local time would be that important when you are considering where to play out your prime years and chase Stanley cups. So I would not take him resigning long term for granted.
Hopefully Chevy can lock Dubois up for a long deal, but I don't think his father coaching another local time would be that important when you are considering where to play out your prime years and chase Stanley cups. So I would not take him resigning long term for granted.
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Interesting comparison of players
I mean suzuki has super solid underlying defensive numbers, like really good. But he is also a drag on offense this year at even strength in his above replacement.
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Dubois has been driving offense pretty good in his role this year, but leaves some work for improvement defensively. He's not a train wreck like Schiefele, but some improvement.
I mean suzuki has super solid underlying defensive numbers, like really good. But he is also a drag on offense this year at even strength in his above replacement.
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Dubois has been driving offense pretty good in his role this year, but leaves some work for improvement defensively. He's not a train wreck like Schiefele, but some improvement.
domiwroze
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No, thank god he started with "mtl want to pay 50% value" then by talking about Koskinen as if we want his sorry ass and then compare his value to Price's.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Contracts overlap in time due to when they start (what the cap it) and when they end (what the cap is). It's basically the same contract you gave Scheifele in 2016.
Scheifele from 13/14 - 15/16 (3 seasons before his current contract kicked in):
* 0.67 pts/game (216 regular season games)
* 0.25 pts/game (4 playoff games)
Suzuki from 18/19 - 20/21 (3 seasons before his current contract kicked in):
* 0.65 pts/game (127 regular season games)
* 0.72 pts/game (32 playoff games)
Add inflation from 16 to 21 and Suzuki's playoff numbers... There is the difference between $6.125M to $7.875M. You going to try to say that Suzuki should have got what Scheifele got in 2016? Go ahead and try but if you do, the point is over your head.
Personally, I think the Jets are cheap and not sure they want to sign PLD for $8M.
Dirby Kach
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6 months ago you would have danced in the street for this deal. Guess your talent evaluation back then was poor then. Is that what you are saying?
Neither side does this. Montreal values the term of age 23-30 seasons and the long term value of the Suzuki deal too much, and Winnipeg prefers the fit with Dubois right now and likely will try to either extend him or look for a trade asset with a lower AAV if they're forced to move him because he won't sign long term. That being said I really am not sure why people are so negative on the Suzuki extension, especially in this direct comparison with Dubois who's right around the same career PPG and worse defensively. Also strange to handwave away Dubois' results last year and pretend Suzuki is playing in a normal situation right now with the 21-22 Canadiens. If you think Suzuki is grossly overpaid at 7.8M I'm really just not sure why you'd be happy to pay Dubois pretty much the same money.
By next year the Suzuki deal will be the #22 or #23 contract among C's after Bergeron/Kadri/Malkin/Hertl sign (and maybe a spot lower when Dubois signs a new contract!). Pretty hard for me to have a big issue with that in the first year of an 8 year extension where the AAV will continue to drop into the 30s within 2-3 years and when the floor is high with his defensive ability. It's just dumb that his scoring totals on the worst team in the league while he's still on his ELC are being used to skewer a contract that doesn't kick in until next year when we have no idea what the rest of the team will look like and when he was on a 60P pace the year before when he played on a normal team and not the worst team in the league.
There seems to be this idea that Suzuki is having this horrid nightmare season and I really don't get it. In the last chunk of games he had 1 point in 10 games dragging around a completely washed Mike Hoffman and 8 points in 7 games since being put on a line with Toffoli and Evans/Lehkonen. Those aren't exactly super elite linemates, Hoffman just sucks ass and the Suzuki line is the only one that gets any matchups. Hard for me to really have a problem with a 50 point pace on this Canadiens team and it's profoundly foolish to pretend like he's doomed to be a 50 point C forever because he isn't racking up points on a team using Ben Chiarot as the PP1 QB.
By next year the Suzuki deal will be the #22 or #23 contract among C's after Bergeron/Kadri/Malkin/Hertl sign (and maybe a spot lower when Dubois signs a new contract!). Pretty hard for me to have a big issue with that in the first year of an 8 year extension where the AAV will continue to drop into the 30s within 2-3 years and when the floor is high with his defensive ability. It's just dumb that his scoring totals on the worst team in the league while he's still on his ELC are being used to skewer a contract that doesn't kick in until next year when we have no idea what the rest of the team will look like and when he was on a 60P pace the year before when he played on a normal team and not the worst team in the league.
There seems to be this idea that Suzuki is having this horrid nightmare season and I really don't get it. In the last chunk of games he had 1 point in 10 games dragging around a completely washed Mike Hoffman and 8 points in 7 games since being put on a line with Toffoli and Evans/Lehkonen. Those aren't exactly super elite linemates, Hoffman just sucks ass and the Suzuki line is the only one that gets any matchups. Hard for me to really have a problem with a 50 point pace on this Canadiens team and it's profoundly foolish to pretend like he's doomed to be a 50 point C forever because he isn't racking up points on a team using Ben Chiarot as the PP1 QB.
You are wasting your time proving facts to hab fans. They read posts like this that prove they are wrong and ignore it like it was written in a foreign language, and start posting things like ….we don’t want him, he will with the Habs as a UFA. Suzuki should be thanking KK for getting him a huge raise by should be hating him for leaving him behind in Mtl to be on a crap team.
But he didn't
In previous discussions on Oil and Habs
Habs fans say we'd have to pay out the wazoo to move Kosk .. and would also say price currently would bring in a 1st ++++
He was calling out the ability to evaluate your own players as a fan base .. not comparing anyone to anyone
Romang67
BitterSwede
And for the contract the Jets gave Scheifele, they ended up with a PPG #1C. If Suzuki doesn't turn out to be a #1C, he will be overpaid through his contract. I didn't think he would turn out to be one at the time of signing, thus I believe he's overpaid. Not sure what's controversial about this.
Saying that the Jets are cheap and won't give PLD a contract that you just said is equivalent to the Scheifele contract they plainly were willing to give a potential #1C seems a bit contradictory.
Six months ago the Jets still would not have been interested, no.
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domiwroze
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6 months ago Dubois line got swept 4-0 by Suzuki's line and y'all were crying over the fact that Dubois can't do shit if Scheifele isn't taking 1st line responsibility.
Huffer
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Saying that the Jets are cheap when they are spending to the cap is a little silly as well.
Maybe some of the crazies on HF were doing that. I think most Jets fans were hoping/expecting Dubois to bounce back in a more "normal" year. He's done that.
The Jets traded their highest pick since the team came back to Winnipeg in Laine for Dubois. They weren't gonna ditch Dubois after a shortened COVID season, especially because the Jets don't seem to like to make trades unless their hands are tied.
Romang67
BitterSwede
Dubois having a resurgence this season shouldn't come as news to anyone. Turns out he's much more the player he looked like his first 3 seasons than what he was during the COVID bubble season. Unsurprisingly.
gojetsgo
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please explain why you think the jets are cheap? trading for schmidt and stastny during a pandemic and spending to the cap since we were ready to compete says otherwise....
And Habs fans were exalting the powerhouse young Habs team. Fans say stupid **** when they are mad/excited.
No Jet fan then or now would consider downgrading from Dubois to Suzuki especially when you factor in Suzuki's contract.
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