Drew Doughty

[kingsholygrail]

Problem is the statistics don't back up your statement. The game is getting faster. I am not going to re-post the information regarding how a forward's production declines after they hit their late 20's and into their 30's. It's been provided many times.

It's rare for a player to maintain his rate of production well into his 30's and Kopitar isn't showing signs that he will be one of those guys.

If you enjoy mediocrity and one playoff win over the last 3 years, it's your prerogative, but I don't. Honestly, I think some of you get upset when one of your favorite players receives criticism, and the people who have been critical are proven correct.

I like Anze Kopitar, but his last contract should have been for no more than 5 years, and for a more reasonable cap hit. If he didn't want to sign a deal like that, then trade him.

But you can't be a Kings fan without having enjoyed quite a lot of mediocrity. Did you only become a fan in 2012?

 

[KINGS17]

But you can't be a Kings fan without having enjoyed quite a lot of mediocrity. Did you only become a fan in 2012?

I have been a Kings fan for over 40 years, so I know bad and good moves when I see them.

I enjoyed watching Brown, Kopitar, etc. develop when they were kids. I expected those teams to struggle, but show they were steadily improving. I have no desire to watch a team go into the black hole, then slowly decline.

I am a huge fan of Dean Lombardi. He knows how to build a team. He just didn't know how to refresh the roster. Not sure why quite a few of you are okay with a roster full of players who for the most part are either resting on their laurels, or simply can no longer get it done.

 

[KINGS17]

I wouldn't trade Doughty straight up for anyone in the league besides Mcdavid . He's going to be a generational dman I love that guy.

...and when he insists on 8 years and $88M????

 

[KingCanadain1976]

...and when he insists on 8 years and $88M????

you learn to live or die by having elc players in your bottom 6

 

[Stimpythecat]

...and when he insists on 8 years and $88M????

You pay him.

you learn to live or die by having elc players in your bottom 6

Yup yup.


Between now and the Doughty extension there are 3 years of cap adjustments. Talk now is if the players use the 5% escalator, the cap will go up $3-$4 million. But that is just one year. While any one year can be flat, I don't see all 3 years being flat.

Doughty's raise will be $4 million. So we can allocate all 3 years of cap adjustments for that. We can probably fit everyone in under a $73 million cap as is.

Between now and then, we have greene and nolan coming off.

Greene - $2.5 million
Nolan - $.95 million
Vegas probably takes Lewis (or McNabb) - replace with ELC guy $1+ million
Trade clifford and replace with ELC - $1 million

That's a decent amount of wiggle room to get a UFA. If we do something with gaborik we'd have 9+ million. Enough for a decent winger or two or one top UFA.

 

[KINGS17]

you learn to live or die by having elc players in your bottom 6

This is a recipe which is working fairly well for the Blackhawks, right?

 

[KINGS17]

You pay him.



Yup yup.


Between now and the Doughty extension there are 3 years of cap adjustments. Talk now is if the players use the 5% escalator, the cap will go up $3-$4 million. But that is just one year. While any one year can be flat, I don't see all 3 years being flat.

Doughty's raise will be $4 million. So we can allocate all 3 years of cap adjustments for that. We can probably fit everyone in under a $73 million cap as is.

Between now and then, we have greene and nolan coming off.

Greene - $2.5 million
Nolan - $.95 million
Vegas probably takes Lewis (or McNabb) - replace with ELC guy $1+ million
Trade clifford and replace with ELC - $1 million

That's a decent amount of wiggle room to get a UFA. If we do something with gaborik we'd have 9+ million. Enough for a decent winger or two or one top UFA.

So let's talk about the escalator for a moment:

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2017/5/30/15714682/nhl-salary-cap-2017-2018-flyers

“I’ll add that one of the issues that we hear from the Players’ Association that causes concern to the players is the escrow,†Daly continued. “Obviously the higher the cap goes, the more exacerbated the escrow problem becomes. Certainly our position with the Players’ Association has been that we’ll manage the cap tighter and keep it lower to try to address the escrow situation, if that’s your preference.â€

Let’s quickly explain whatever the hell Daly is saying there. Under the collective bargaining agreement, players are entitled each season to a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue. If the players elect to use the escalator, a higher percentage of their salary will be set aside from each pay check — in escrow — until the end of next season, only to come back to their pockets once the 50-50 calculation is made based on the year’s revenue. In most cases, players do not receive the full percentage of their paychecks in return, and therefore players hate it.

Let's say your an average to below average NHL player. You go to the NHLPA meeting to vote on the escalator clause and when you get home your wife or significant other asks you, "So, how did you vote on the escalator this time?"

"Well, I voted to hand some more money from each of my paychecks over to escrow, so Oshie and Shattenkirk can get contracts with bigger cap hits."

I know some of these guys aren't Phi Beta Kappa, but I think they are beginning to figure this one out.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

This is a recipe which is working fairly well for the Blackhawks, right?

Seems to work for the pens

 

[deeshamrock]

You pay him.



Yup yup.


Between now and the Doughty extension there are 3 years of cap adjustments. Talk now is if the players use the 5% escalator, the cap will go up $3-$4 million. But that is just one year. While any one year can be flat, I don't see all 3 years being flat.

Doughty's raise will be $4 million. So we can allocate all 3 years of cap adjustments for that. We can probably fit everyone in under a $73 million cap as is.

Between now and then, we have greene and nolan coming off.

Greene - $2.5 million
Nolan - $.95 million
Vegas probably takes Lewis (or McNabb) - replace with ELC guy $1+ million
Trade clifford and replace with ELC - $1 million

That's a decent amount of wiggle room to get a UFA. If we do something with gaborik we'd have 9+ million. Enough for a decent winger or two or one top UFA.

And then you handcuff the team going forward. Where is the money coming from for the other contracts? 21 plus M on 2 players isn't good math.
And that's assuming DD won't ask for 12. And it's still up to him where to sign. He signs with the team, they don't sign him. And there are teams that can pay , younger and more talented that would have a legit shot at several years of deep runs.
The Kings aren't that team anymore.

 

[deeshamrock]

Seems to work for the pens

Pens success is from a lot of areas, that would be a small one. Goaltending 2 legit #1 centers, and 2 terrific veteran 3 and 4 centers, also skilled vet wingers. And a coach who turned the entire team around.

 

[KINGS17]

Seems to work for the pens

Not until the cap increased sharply, which it won't be doing again anytime soon.

For years after the salary cap was instituted Penguin fans complained about the cap and their GMs inability to fill in the blanks around Crosby and Malkin.

You think the Pens could afford to trade for Kessel if Malkin and Crosby had a combined cap hit of $22M?

 

[KINGS17]

And then you handcuff the team going forward. Where is the money coming from for the other contracts? 21 plus M on 2 players isn't good math.
And that's assuming DD won't ask for 12. And it's still up to him where to sign. He signs with the team, they don't sign him. And there are teams that can pay , younger and more talented that would have a legit shot at several years of deep runs.
The Kings aren't that team anymore.

Reality Bites!! People are in denial, but it is the first step. Some people are stuck there.

 

[Stimpythecat]

You pay him because the Kings are committed on this course. Can't do a rebuild with Quick, Kopitar, Brown, Gaborik, et al. on the books.

We are committed to these contracts and can't do a proper rebuild, so our best chance lies with Doughty re-signing.

And the Blackhawk model does work. they were the #1 seed. A flawed #1 but still the top team in the west.

 

[Stimpythecat]

So let's talk about the escalator for a moment:

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2017/5/30/15714682/nhl-salary-cap-2017-2018-flyers



Let's say your an average to below average NHL player. You go to the NHLPA meeting to vote on the escalator clause and when you get home your wife or significant other asks you, "So, how did you vote on the escalator this time?"

"Well, I voted to hand some more money from each of my paychecks over to escrow, so Oshie and Shattenkirk can get contracts with bigger cap hits."

I know some of these guys aren't Phi Beta Kappa, but I think they are beginning to figure this one out.

Yes, I understand the argument.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that 2 of those potential cap adjustments will come before we can even re-sign doughty. It doesn't change the fact that Nolan and Greene both come off the books in a year or sooner since Nolan can be buried and Greene may retire or go on LTIR. it doesn't change that Vegas picks someone.

We wait and see where the cap is. We wait to find out who vegas picks. It is extremely likely we will have some decent amount of cap room. the question is how much.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Pens success is from a lot of areas, that would be a small one. Goaltending 2 legit #1 centers, and 2 terrific veteran 3 and 4 centers, also skilled vet wingers. And a coach who turned the entire team around.

quick/whoever is better then fluery /Murry combo we have 2 legit number on centers in kopitar and carter Yes crosby and malkin better ones but nothing wrong with ours. Two vets for centers 3 4 Okie we need this We have a couple of skilled wingers Pearson Toffoli for sure jury still out on kempe and Brodzinski We will see what stevens will do I honestly don't see us that far out of pitts league

You also don't mention our defense which is much better then pittsburgh Drew is much better defensively then Latang

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Not until the cap increased sharply, which it won't be doing again anytime soon.

For years after the salary cap was instituted Penguin fans complained about the cap and their GMs inability to fill in the blanks around Crosby and Malkin.

You think the Pens could afford to trade for Kessel if Malkin and Crosby had a combined cap hit of $22M?

are you a physic ? If you are why you wasting ur time making hockey cap predictions go after the money and hit a lotto. Seriously now no one can predict the future its simply your guess at it. Seriously 17 i keep reading all the doom and gloom coming from you and wondering if opting for a new team may solve your issues with the kings. As you said u don't want to go thru the doom and gloom again.The best option for u is imo find a new team and come back to the kings when we get good enough for you. I have been and fan for 40 years just as you have and love this team winning or losing I call it loyalty Just a thought for you

 

[KINGS17]

are you a physic ? If you are why you wasting ur time making hockey cap predictions go after the money and hit a lotto. Seriously now no one can predict the future its simply your guess at it. Seriously 17 i keep reading all the doom and gloom coming from you and wondering if opting for a new team may solve your issues with the kings. As you said u don't want to go thru the doom and gloom again.The best option for u is imo find a new team and come back to the kings when we get good enough for you. I have been and fan for 40 years just as you have and love this team winning or losing I call it loyalty Just a thought for you

I don't need to be psychic. I have been saying the cap will be stagnant going back to the summer of 2015. Since that time it has grown a paltry $4M.

How do you draw such a conclusion? It's easy, you read the articles stating how the revenue in U.S. dollars for the NHL from Canadian teams is roughly 35% of the total. When the Canadian dollar was roughly even, and at historic highs, against the U.S. dollar the salary cap increases dramatically as long as there is still revenue growth in Canada.

When the Canadian dollar dropped back to its "average" it was inevitable the salary cap would be stagnant, because even if Canadian revenues were still growing, they were discounted by the stronger U.S. dollar.

Then when you realize the strength of the Canadian dollar and the entire Canadian economy is based largely on the price of a barrel of oil, you can see the Canadian dollar isn't making a come back anytime soon. We won't be seeing $100/barrel oil again for quite some time unless there is a major geo-political event.

The second part of your post is the typical too frustrated to deal with the facts kind of post I expect from some here, but not from you. I can be a fan of the Kings and disagree with the current course the team is taking, just as many were when they wanted Lombardi fired back in early 2012, and I said be patient.

I don't mind seeing the team lose games as long as it has a purpose. It's simple, don't marry the players. I am a fan of the team, and actually more so of the fans that pull for the team I root for, but players come and go. I don't see Doughty staying with the Kings unless he is made an offer from a monetary standpoint he can't refuse, and dee is right, that kind of offer will handcuff this franchise to mediocrity for the next decade.

I have as much loyalty to these players as they have to me.

 

[theMajor]

Reality Bites!! People are in denial, but it is the first step. Some people are stuck there.

in denial of what? how do you not sign a player like Doughty? unless a 'hockey' trade can be made for him, which probably won't happen, do you let a player of his caliber walk?

 

[KINGS17]

in denial of what? how do you not sign a player like Doughty? unless a 'hockey' trade can be made for him, which probably won't happen, do you let a player of his caliber walk?

Why?

Just for the record, I wasn't speaking solely of Doughty when I said some are in denial. Many think the Kings window is still open, when it isn't.

 

[theMajor]

Why?

Just for the record, I wasn't speaking solely of Doughty when I said some are in denial. Many think the Kings window is still open, when it isn't.

cause they just don't happen that often. when was the last time a superstar Dman (top 3) was traded during their prime for an equal or at least reasonable return? 2006 when Pronger was traded? I don't really count the Weber/Subban flip. Blake is proving to be more industrious than I thought but even then I still have my doubts about him trading Doughty. he'd be crucifying himself if he let DD walk

 

[BallPointHammer]

I believe going forward (next 2 or 3 years) the Kings core (top 3 or 4 players) has to be truly elite to match the Pittsburgh/Chicago model. Doughty is the only given, assuming he is re-signed.

Kopitar - can he get out of his funk?
Quick - can he stay healthy?
Carter - #1 winger or #2 center?

Should the Kings possibly deal any or all of those three at some point to obtain the 2 or 3 elite players to follow Doughty and make the Kings legitimate contenders. That might mean including some other good players (Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, Martinez).

 

[SettlementRichie10]

There's nothing wrong with facing facts and seeing this current team for what it is: regressing. For as many Pittsburgh turnarounds, there are Vancouver black holes.

There's also nothing wrong with advocating for a careful, explore-all-options approach to potentially trading the best defenseman to ever wear an LA uniform.

 

[deeshamrock]

in denial of what? how do you not sign a player like Doughty? unless a 'hockey' trade can be made for him, which probably won't happen, do you let a player of his caliber walk?

ANd then what? You need a complete team to be a contender and go on a deep run. Doughty is a top 3 d in the game, I get that, I've loved him since I saw him in the 2010 Olympics. But of the current core (Quick, DD, Kopi , Carter) he'd be the only one still in some prime years. Two years from now, when the new contract starts, Carter is pushing 35, quick 34 and Kopi 32. That's way past the aver age a core should be when they are in the heart of their prime years (25-28)

4th spot in the pacific is no guarantee of a playoff spot, not with the strength of the other division. And the Oilers are a better team, young skilled an on the rise, the Flames will upgrade their goalie, another young skilled team on the rise. SHarks are a better team, DUcks, depending on the changes they make (overloaded with d will trade to upgrade forward group) , the Central has 6 teams that will be fighting for 5 spots. The current Kings, are not good enough to compete with that, it's not 2012 anymore. THey got older and pissed away draft choices, thereby weakening the farm system. Mersch, BRodz, etc, top forwards in the Kings system, but not top NHL Forwards.

STevens is a good coach and if Luc and Blake make the right changes/trades/signings they can build towards a positive future. And despite what they are saying publically, they aren't dumb. T hey are aware of where the Kings fall in the COnf , the skill and youth of the competition and what steps need to be done to allow them to be at the top of the standings to get the WC.

Doughty wouldn't 'walk'. I think he's honest enough and respects the organization enough to let them know if he wants to move on, to sign an LTC with a team that he feels is a better one, one that will be a legit contender for most of those years. If that is the case, they have to trade him. And if you get multiple pieces back that makes your team, better and stronger, then it's the best course.
As much as the fans love Kopi, that contract will never be a good one. You can't trade it, and it handcuffed them, esp with Doughty. And he'll never measure up to what most fans feel a 10M player does.
GM has a whole roster to sign contracts for, not just a few. And what of TT? WHat if he/Brisson want more than the kings will offer and he does get a short deal, 2 yrs a 'show me ' if you will? Then he pots 60 plus goals in those 2 yrs and that another LTC for $$ due the same year as Doughty? So that's like 18M or so.
The math doesn't add up. Andi t could be if the front office is planning ahead, mapping out strategy/contacts for the next few years, they can't afford to offer him 11M or more. If they do, that will mean holes in other areas....

 

[damacles1156]

Once again,

Doughty will ask for more than Kopitar got, he will ask to be the highest paid player in the league. Doughty will get it, from someone.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Judging by the reaction on even THIS board, Drew Doughty has become one of the most underrated players in the league since his Norris.