Drew Doughty

[KINGS17]

There you go dee, being negative again.

 

[justonetime]

It makes them a very good team, but other teams have that same quartet and more depth. The Kings 'top' 2 centers are not in their prime anymore, Calgary and Edmonton both have young center duo's that aren't in their prime yet and will get better. DD is the only core player in his prime ,the others are aging, that's not an advantage the way it was 5 yrs ago when they got the first Cup and had 2 strong yrs after that.

Nashville has the best defense in the game and their top 4 defenseman have shown in this playoff series, putting up 50 pts and playing solid in all 3 zones. The Kings can't match that, not even close. Perhaps when Gravel and LaDue develop but that is a few years away. Fisher won't be the #2 next year and they'll have a younger pivot at that slot. That combined with the other factors put thems ahead of the Kings and in the drivers seat in that division.

Right now, for the Kings to get into the playoffs, #4 spot in the division is not a guarantee, not with the Central. So getting to #3 would be the goal and I just can't see them doing that next year. With the right personnel moves, drafts and such, in time maybe. But Edmonton, Calgary, Sharks and Ducks right now have the edge to get those top 3.

To the topic of this thread, I don't think you trade Doughty due to the fact that this is a very good team. They aren't up and coming like they used to be, but nobody quite saw 2012 coming even just a few months before their run. None of us here have the complete information to make that decision as well, we don't know what other GM's are offering for him, and we don't know his exact salary demands. In my opinion is ridiculous to claim that the team is done, and anyone that disagrees is wrong.

There's certainly a reason Nashville has had success. Their defense is good, but they were 15th in GA last year. Kings were 6th. Edmonton scares me big time, Calgary not so much. Ducks and Sharks I see having similar aging issues as the Kings do. The Sharks have had an aging Marleau and Thornton for years and have been a very good team.

There you go dee, being negative again.

Still stand by your statement that "It could easily be argued Johansen and Fisher is the better combination over the last season."??

There was nothing condescending or rude about his post. Yours on the other hand...

 

[KINGS17]

To the topic of this thread, I don't think you trade Doughty due to the fact that this is a very good team. They aren't up and coming like they used to be, but nobody quite saw 2012 coming even just a few months before their run. None of us here have the complete information to make that decision as well, we don't know what other GM's are offering for him, and we don't know his exact salary demands. In my opinion is ridiculous to claim that the team is done, and anyone that disagrees is wrong.

There's certainly a reason Nashville has had success. Their defense is good, but they were 15th in GA last year. Kings were 6th. Edmonton scares me big time, Calgary not so much. Ducks and Sharks I see having similar aging issues as the Kings do. The Sharks have had an aging Marleau and Thornton for years and have been a very good team.



Still stand by your statement that "It could easily be argued Johansen and Fisher is the better combination over the last season."??

There was nothing condescending or rude about his post. Yours on the other hand...

Yes, I still stand by it. There is more to it than points for each individual player. One team is still playing, the other one has been on the golf course since April. So yes, it's easy to argue Johansen and Fisher had better seasons than the Kings top two centermen.

You based most of your argument saying the Kings could take Nashville in a 7-game series on the idea the Kings would dominate down the middle. Simply not true.

I don't care what you consider to be condescending or rude, as you seem to be oversensitive and can't take even some minor ribbing.

In my opinion it is ridiculous to claim this team's window is still open. They won't be getting past Edmonton in the Pacific Division playoffs for years to come. McJesus and Draisaitl will eat the Kings alive in any playoff series they meet in over the next few years. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. (Sorry was that too rough for you.)

 

[deeshamrock]

To the topic of this thread, I don't think you trade Doughty due to the fact that this is a very good team. They aren't up and coming like they used to be, but nobody quite saw 2012 coming even just a few months before their run. None of us here have the complete information to make that decision as well, we don't know what other GM's are offering for him, and we don't know his exact salary demands. In my opinion is ridiculous to claim that the team is done, and anyone that disagrees is wrong.

There's certainly a reason Nashville has had success. Their defense is good, but they were 15th in GA last year. Kings were 6th. Edmonton scares me big time, Calgary not so much. Ducks and Sharks I see having similar aging issues as the Kings do. The Sharks have had an aging Marleau and Thornton for years and have been a very good team.



Still stand by your statement that "It could easily be argued Johansen and Fisher is the better combination over the last season."??

There was nothing condescending or rude about his post. Yours on the other hand...

I understand your enthusiasm, it's the thing that makes all sports special, but it's a bit harsh to say anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.


Actually I am a female fan, a 'her'....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've said this team can compete with anyone, and I stick to that. BUT--I will say if you remove Doughty from the roster this is a lottery team. He might be the single most important player. I used to say that was Kopitar, but in recent years, Drew on vs. off the ice is one of the starkest contrasts of any player in the league (could easily argue THE starkest but don't want to split hairs). Without his near-30 min a game, everything falls apart.

So if you want to rebuild? You move Doughty. If you want to stay in the Wild Card area, you have to keep him, no matter what the price.

 

[justonetime]

I understand your enthusiasm, it's the thing that makes all sports special, but it's a bit harsh to say anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.


Actually I am a female fan, a 'her'....

Sorry about the he/she thing, my bad. Also I worded that part very poorly, I was refering to certain other people that say things like...

Reality Bites!! People are in denial, but it is the first step. Some people are stuck there.

 

[BigKing]

I think it is ridiculous to tout the Kings "6th best defense in the league" last season and expect that to stay the same while the offense also jumps up considerably. It's easier to be in position defensively if you never take any chances. They are going have to take more chances if they want to score more. Gravel,McNabb,LaDue are not Mitchell, Voynov or even unbroken Matt Greene.

 

[justonetime]

Yes, I still stand by it. There is more to it than points for each individual player. One team is still playing, the other one has been on the golf course since April. So yes, it's easy to argue Johansen and Fisher had better seasons than the Kings top two centermen.

You based most of your argument saying the Kings could take Nashville in a 7-game series on the idea the Kings would dominate down the middle. Simply not true.

I don't care what you consider to be condescending or rude, as you seem to be oversensitive and can't take even some minor ribbing.

In my opinion it is ridiculous to claim this team's window is still open. They won't be getting past Edmonton in the Pacific Division playoffs for years to come. McJesus and Draisaitl will eat the Kings alive in any playoff series they meet in over the next few years. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. (Sorry was that too rough for you.)

They are better because the team is still playing? Nice argument. More to it then points? Want to give an example?

Ryan Johansen had 14 goals in 82 games. Kopitar had 12 in 76. Fisher had 18 all year, and has a whopping TWO goals since February. Carter alone had as many goals then them combined. Defensively Kopitar > Fisher and Carter > Johnansen, and Fisher > Carter. Kings win there.

It's nice to see you start off saying that was your opinion. That's all it is bud, you don't know any more then the rest of us.

 

[KINGS17]

I think it is ridiculous to tout the Kings "6th best defense in the league" last season and expect that to stay the same while the offense also jumps up considerably. It's easier to be in position defensively if you never take any chances. They are going have to take more chances if they want to score more. Gravel,McNabb,LaDue are not Mitchell, Voynov or even unbroken Matt Greene.

I think you are right on target here. To generate more offense the Kings will have to take greater risks with stretch passes and trying to carry the puck over the opponent's blue line. Turnovers at both blue lines will increase dramatically.

The kids on defense will be exposed.

 

[justonetime]

I think it is ridiculous to tout the Kings "6th best defense in the league" last season and expect that to stay the same while the offense also jumps up considerably. It's easier to be in position defensively if you never take any chances. They are going have to take more chances if they want to score more. Gravel,McNabb,LaDue are not Mitchell, Voynov or even unbroken Matt Greene.

I don't think it's unfair to rank the King's defense around that number league wide. They've consistently been there year after year. And not all good teams sacrifice defense for offense, that's an assumption you are making. If they do they can still fall and be ahead of where Nashville came in this year(or not, who knows).

Nashville also has a very good, if not the best defense in the league. King's have them beat with their #1 (Drew > Josi) and Nashville wins at #2, #3, and #4. IMO Kings 5 and 6 are better then Nashville. Drew playing close to 30 minutes a night is HUGE for this team and again, imo makes the Kings defense not all that far off from what Nashville is icing.

Coaching could make a huge difference in how the team plays next year. It will be very interesting to see how similar or different Stevens really is to Sutter and Murray.

 

[BigKing]

If it was as easy as just putting an ">" after Kopitar and Carter's names, the Kings would of made the playoffs.

Game is played on the ice and the Kings were a ****ing embarrassment in that regard this season. Forget the lack of goals and any form of imagination/creativity on offense and just look at the fact that they did not stick up for each other like the top teams do and were not difficult to play against.

The 2014 Kings would beat the 2017 Predators, sure. At present, the players on this team haven't done **** when it matters for three seasons now so it is nothing but rampant optimism and homerism to say they would beat any of the playoff teams this season.

As RJ said, the Kings can "play" with anyone but that is also true of almost every team in the league. The Devils and Rangers "played with" the Kings in 2012 and '14 and nobody looks at those series like they were close except maybe Devils and Rangers fans.

I have no issue with optimism for the upcoming season, but it is insulting to the Predators to claim a team that didn't make the playoffs would beat them in seven games. This is like saying the last few Andy Murray Kings teams would beat the teams that were in the SCFs back then. Nobody would say that then and nobody should be saying it now about the current Kings team.

edit-

To your above post, I agree that the coaching change could coax better years out of some guys. I just know what I've seen with my own eyes the last few seasons so I am unable to get behind any notion of the 2017 Kings challenging any of the playoff teams: especially those playing in the Finals. I need to see it on the ice next season before I believe it.

Also, Josi/Subban as 1A/1B is easily better than any Doughty/Stiff-Who-Needs-Doughty pairing. I'd much, much rather have the stronger 1-4 than having the best #1 and, arguably, the best #5 and 6 and I'm not going to say the Kings have a better #5 and #6.

Chicago won a Cup while playing four d-men the entire game. Your Top 4 are much more important than the bottom pair.

 

[KINGS17]

They are better because the team is still playing? Nice argument. More to it then points? Want to give an example?

Ryan Johansen had 14 goals in 82 games. Kopitar had 12 in 76. Fisher had 18 all year, and has a whopping TWO goals since February. Carter alone had as many goals then them combined. Defensively Kopitar > Fisher and Carter > Johnansen, and Fisher > Carter. Kings win there.

It's nice to see you start off saying that was your opinion. That's all it is bud, you don't know any more then the rest of us.

I put that in just for you since you seem to need it. Everything I write here is my opinion unless I quote someone else or post a link with a reference. After all, when I write something, it must be my opinion. Going forward you can make that assumption.

Your last statement is flat out wrong. There are many people posting here more knowledgeable than others.

 

[KINGS17]

I've said this team can compete with anyone, and I stick to that. BUT--I will say if you remove Doughty from the roster this is a lottery team. He might be the single most important player. I used to say that was Kopitar, but in recent years, Drew on vs. off the ice is one of the starkest contrasts of any player in the league (could easily argue THE starkest but don't want to split hairs). Without his near-30 min a game, everything falls apart.

So if you want to rebuild? You move Doughty. If you want to stay in the Wild Card area, you have to keep him, no matter what the price.

I agree RJ, but do you really want to live in the wild card area for the next 5 years, maybe longer, until the inevitable happens.

It's a pretty dull existence if you ask me.

 

[justonetime]

If it was as easy as just putting an ">" after Kopitar and Carter's names, the Kings would of made the playoffs.

Game is played on the ice and the Kings were a ****ing embarrassment in that regard this season. Forget the lack of goals and any form of imagination/creativity on offense and just look at the fact that they did not stick up for each other like the top teams do and were not difficult to play against.

The 2014 Kings would beat the 2017 Predators, sure. At present, the players on this team haven't done **** when it matters for three seasons now so it is nothing but rampant optimism and homerism to say they would beat any of the playoff teams this season.

As RJ said, the Kings can "play" with anyone but that is also true of almost every team in the league. The Devils and Rangers "played with" the Kings in 2012 and '14 and nobody looks at those series like they were close except maybe Devils and Rangers fans.

I have no issue with optimism for the upcoming season, but it is insulting to the Predators to claim a team that didn't make the playoffs would beat them in seven games. This is like saying the last few Andy Murray Kings teams would beat the teams that were in the SCFs back then. Nobody would say that then and nobody should be saying it now about the current Kings team.

edit-

To your above post, I agree that the coaching change could coax better years out of some guys. I just know what I've seen with my own eyes the last few seasons so I am unable to get behind any notion of the 2017 Kings challenging any of the playoff teams: especially those playing in the Finals. I need to see it on the ice next season before I believe it.

Also, Josi/Subban as 1A/1B is easily better than any Doughty/Stiff-Who-Needs-Doughty pairing. I'd much, much rather have the stronger 1-4 than having the best #1 and, arguably, the best #5 and 6 and I'm not going to say the Kings have a better #5 and #6.

Chicago won a Cup while playing four d-men the entire game. Your Top 4 are much more important than the bottom pair.

Look, I'm not saying the Kings played well any of the last 3 seasons. I'm not saying Nashville isn't a better team right now then the Kings. But for Christ's sake, they were the 16 seed in the playoffs! Kings were 3-0 vs Nashville this year! Sorry but I don't see my statement as that far fetched. People are disappointed with the Kings season I get that, I was too. But its not game over, turn out the lights, trade everybody and rebuild.

I believe that lackluster play, lack of creativity, and many of the things that drove us crazy were due to coaching. Those are coaching type of problem. The players have to step up, they did when Murray was fired, it's not too encouraging they tuned out another coach but can't trade the whole team. Thing's are going to change in the next month and we'll have a different picture of what the team's going to look like going forward.

I also happen to think Forbort is the real deal, I was very impressed by him last year.

I put that in just for you since you seem to need it. Everything I write here is my opinion unless I quote someone else or post a link with a reference. After all, when I write something, it must be my opinion. Going forward you can make that assumption.

Your last statement is flat out wrong. There are many people posting here more knowledgeable than others.

Right, so back to when I first addressed your posts. You calling people who disagree with you "in denial" [mod] I get that you don't care, but it gets old to read day after day. I'm clearly not the only one that shares that opinion.

 

[BigKing]

Again...Ducks dominated the Kings in 2014 regular season but the Kings beat them in the playoffs. Regular season isn't the playoffs, something the 2012-14 Kings demonstrated each season.

I believe the Kings beat Nashville twice in gimmick OT. Even more of a reason not to tout the W-L record against them. I'd also be interested in the Preds record from March through the end of the season when things started to really matter. Remember that the Kings were right in the thick of it but failed miserably to do anything after Quick's first game back while Nashville and everyone else kept on winning.

As for Nashville being the "16th seed", I seem to remember a Kings team that was a 15 or 16 seed that gets talked about on this board as one of the greatest teams of all time. How can a Kings fan claim a SCF team is beatable by a non-playoff team because they are a 16 seed when the Kings only lost four times total in 2012 from basically the same position?

 

[justonetime]

Again...Ducks dominated the Kings in 2014 regular season but the Kings beat them in the playoffs. Regular season isn't the playoffs, something the 2012-14 Kings demonstrated each season.

I believe the Kings beat Nashville twice in gimmick OT. Even more of a reason not to tout the W-L record against them. I'd also be interested in the Preds record from March through the end of the season when things started to really matter. Remember that the Kings were right in the thick of it but failed miserably to do anything after Quick's first game back while Nashville and everyone else kept on winning.

As for Nashville being the "16th seed", I seem to remember a Kings team that was a 15 or 16 seed that gets talked about on this board as one of the greatest teams of all time. How can a Kings fan claim a SCF team is beatable by a non-playoff team because they are a 16 seed when the Kings only lost four times total in 2012 from basically the same position?

Yes the Kings won twice in OT, and like 4-0 the other time. The reason I claim that is the same reason I don't think the team should be blown up. I don't think the Kings (personnel wise) are that far off of Nashville, and Nashville is in the Finals. Nashville was 5-4-1 the final 10 of the season, and they lost 5 of their last 7.

I think Nashville's run this year is incredibly similar to the Kings' in 2012. Laviolette has done a great job. They destroyed Chicago in round 1, very similar to what the Kings did vs the Canucks. That gave them momentum and confidence, and they've managed to keep it up.

The biggest difference between the two teams is their compete level. Nashville is playing with the energy and tempo the Kings did when they were successful. Over the last couple of years the Kings looked like they don't care. If that doesn't improve for the Kings they will never be successful.

 

[damacles1156]

The numbers don't back up my claim, but I think the Kings defense was not very good this last season.

Especially down the stretch, something was not right.

It feels like, they lost a lot of games giving up 3-5 goals.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The numbers don't back up my claim, but I think the Kings defense was not very good this last season.

Especially down the stretch, something was not right.

Oh I completely agree. The overall numbers don't look all that bad, but what we witnessed on a nightly basis was another story.

They had a second pairing that was completely incapable of being trusted in Muzzin and Martinez, a number of inexperienced guys had their ups and downs (as expected), and then there was McNabb, who seemingly can't do anything right with or without the puck.

Doughty also didn't perform as well as he did in the previous two seasons. The blueline has gotten too soft and passive, and it seemed like every time there was a defensive zone breakdown, it usually was because of a brain fart from one of the dmen.

 

[KINGS17]

Right, so back to when I first addressed your posts. You calling people who disagree with you "in denial" makes you a dick. I get that you don't care, but it gets old to read day after day. I'm clearly not the only one that shares that opinion.

Saying people are in denial regarding a particular topic or subject is a far cry from this.

 

[justonetime]

Saying people are in denial regarding a particular topic or subject is a far cry from this.

It's more you insinuating that everyone that disagrees with you is wrong, and that the only way someone would think different than you is if they are in denial. That makes you one.

 

[BigKing]

Justone-

There are a lot of teams that you can say aren't "far off" from Nashville personnel wise, but getting to that point is difficult. The thing that a lot of us are worried about is that it seems like it will be harder for the Kings to "get there" due to cap problems and a lack of readily-identifiable prospects to come in and produce at high levels at low cap hits.

The Pens weren't "far off" from 2009-15. Didn't get back to the Finals until 2016 once the cap had gone up enough and they started to get major contributions from ELC/young players.

Unlike Chicago and Pittsburgh, LA didn't win its first Cup while 11/8 were on their first (or low cap hit) contracts like Malkin/Toews/Kane. Even with that, Chicago was a first round exit both years after winning in 2010 and it took Pitt seven years to get back there once everyone started getting paid. Chicago was fortunate to have Kane/Toews at lower cap hits than both Kopitar and Doughty until their big $10MM hits took effect. Now Kopitar matched them within one year and Doughty will surpass all of them shortly. Hawks haven't done **** since Kane/Toews became the $10MM twins. Imagine if they didn't hit the jackpot with Panarin...they might be like the Kings wondering how they are missing the playoffs.

The Kings were fortunate to strike while the iron was hot but the cap not increasing greatly and all of the bad contracts severely hamper their ability to get back to being a true contender. I don't think that many of us here feel that this teams core of 11/8/77/73/32 are trash by any means, its just that there are a lot of replacement-level type players on this roster. I'll say it again just like I said last off-season: it is imperative that the Ontario contingent provides significant production because this team can't afford to bring in legit outside help under the current contract figures. Problem there is there is nothing close to a sure-fire thing coming up. We just have to hope someone like Brodz just gets it and goes off.

damacles-

I'm right there with you on the defense. Lot of homegrown bodies back there which get a much longer leash from the fan base than Luke Schenn or McBain. LaDue got beat many times but was never called out for it since we were all so happy with his offensive reads on a boring, offensively-challenged team. Forbort looked good with Doughty but isn't going to be carrying a pair at this stage. Gravel still gets knocked around too easily. Toss in Muzzin/Martinez being a dumpster fire and it sure as hell didn't feel like the 6th best defense in the league.

 

[KINGS17]

It's more you insinuating that everyone that disagrees with you is wrong, and that the only way someone would think different than you is if they are in denial. That makes you one.

I guess you will have to give me your rules for posting etiquette as they apply to what is acceptable for you.

While your at it, publish a thesis on how the power of positive thinking by fans moves a team up in the standings.

It's true, I think if a person believes the Kings are going to contend next season or within the next few seasons, they are denying the obvious improvement of teams in the West that are on the upswing while the Kings are a team declining in performance.

 

[kingsholygrail]

The numbers don't back up my claim, but I think the Kings defense was not very good this last season.

Especially down the stretch, something was not right.

It feels like, they lost a lot of games giving up 3-5 goals.

Poor communication. I don't think they talk to each other enough on the ice or get things cleaned up in practice. Lotta pucks in skates. Lot of times not expecting to receive a pass. Those sorts of things.

 

[KINGS17]

Justone-

There are a lot of teams that you can say aren't "far off" from Nashville personnel wise, but getting to that point is difficult. The thing that a lot of us are worried about is that it seems like it will be harder for the Kings to "get there" due to cap problems and a lack of readily-identifiable prospects to come in and produce at high levels at low cap hits.

The Pens weren't "far off" from 2009-15. Didn't get back to the Finals until 2016 once the cap had gone up enough and they started to get major contributions from ELC/young players.

Unlike Chicago and Pittsburgh, LA didn't win its first Cup while 11/8 were on their first (or low cap hit) contracts like Malkin/Toews/Kane. Even with that, Chicago was a first round exit both years after winning in 2010 and it took Pitt seven years to get back there once everyone started getting paid. Chicago was fortunate to have Kane/Toews at lower cap hits than both Kopitar and Doughty until their big $10MM hits took effect. Now Kopitar matched them within one year and Doughty will surpass all of them shortly. Hawks haven't done **** since Kane/Toews became the $10MM twins. Imagine if they didn't hit the jackpot with Panarin...they might be like the Kings wondering how they are missing the playoffs.

The Kings were fortunate to strike while the iron was hot but the cap not increasing greatly and all of the bad contracts severely hamper their ability to get back to being a true contender. I don't think that many of us here feel that this teams core of 11/8/77/73/32 are trash by any means, its just that there are a lot of replacement-level type players on this roster. I'll say it again just like I said last off-season: it is imperative that the Ontario contingent provides significant production because this team can't afford to bring in legit outside help under the current contract figures. Problem there is there is nothing close to a sure-fire thing coming up. We just have to hope someone like Brodz just gets it and goes off.

damacles-

I'm right there with you on the defense. Lot of homegrown bodies back there which get a much longer leash from the fan base than Luke Schenn or McBain. LaDue got beat many times but was never called out for it since we were all so happy with his offensive reads on a boring, offensively-challenged team. Forbort looked good with Doughty but isn't going to be carrying a pair at this stage. Gravel still gets knocked around too easily. Toss in Muzzin/Martinez being a dumpster fire and it sure as hell didn't feel like the 6th best defense in the league.

I think a lot of the defensive issues with last year's club were covered for by how deep the Kings forwards come back into the zone to help.

If that philosophy changes, expect Quick to be fishing the puck out of his net more often next season.

 

[justonetime]

Justone-

There are a lot of teams that you can say aren't "far off" from Nashville personnel wise, but getting to that point is difficult. The thing that a lot of us are worried about is that it seems like it will be harder for the Kings to "get there" due to cap problems and a lack of readily-identifiable prospects to come in and produce at high levels at low cap hits.

The Pens weren't "far off" from 2009-15. Didn't get back to the Finals until 2016 once the cap had gone up enough and they started to get major contributions from ELC/young players.

Unlike Chicago and Pittsburgh, LA didn't win its first Cup while 11/8 were on their first (or low cap hit) contracts like Malkin/Toews/Kane. Even with that, Chicago was a first round exit both years after winning in 2010 and it took Pitt seven years to get back there once everyone started getting paid. Chicago was fortunate to have Kane/Toews at lower cap hits than both Kopitar and Doughty until their big $10MM hits took effect. Now Kopitar matched them within one year and Doughty will surpass all of them shortly. Hawks haven't done **** since Kane/Toews became the $10MM twins. Imagine if they didn't hit the jackpot with Panarin...they might be like the Kings wondering how they are missing the playoffs.

The Kings were fortunate to strike while the iron was hot but the cap not increasing greatly and all of the bad contracts severely hamper their ability to get back to being a true contender. I don't think that many of us here feel that this teams core of 11/8/77/73/32 are trash by any means, its just that there are a lot of replacement-level type players on this roster. I'll say it again just like I said last off-season: it is imperative that the Ontario contingent provides significant production because this team can't afford to bring in legit outside help under the current contract figures. Problem there is there is nothing close to a sure-fire thing coming up. We just have to hope someone like Brodz just gets it and goes off.

damacles-

I'm right there with you on the defense. Lot of homegrown bodies back there which get a much longer leash from the fan base than Luke Schenn or McBain. LaDue got beat many times but was never called out for it since we were all so happy with his offensive reads on a boring, offensively-challenged team. Forbort looked good with Doughty but isn't going to be carrying a pair at this stage. Gravel still gets knocked around too easily. Toss in Muzzin/Martinez being a dumpster fire and it sure as hell didn't feel like the 6th best defense in the league.

I don't disagree with anything you said there about the Kings and their predicament going forward. They have issues. I kinda came into this discussion in the middle, but I just don't think trading away the Kings big contracts is the right thing to do at this point.

When the Pens were down for those years there were many that advocated trading Malkin or even Crosby for the same reasons people here are giving to get rid of Drew or Kopitar. But they stayed the course and are back two years in a row. I realize the argument against the Kings is players like Carter and Gaborik are old and getting older. But the top end talent the Kings have is something that not many do, and if you trade away those guys its all over. The aforementioned contracts the Kings have make doing some sort of retool virtually impossible. The guys with value are the guys the teams needs.

Doughty absolutely has the tools to dominate for another 10 years. Getting rid of a player of his caliber so that we draft top 10 instead of 10-15 the next 3-4 years doesn't make sense to me.