TSN: Dreger: Detroit won't be swapping 1st, 2nd or a quality prospect for a rental

[Overclass*]

I love how people are acting like missing 17 million dollars in cap space won't be replaced with free agents and draft picks. Spoiler: every team would be a lot worse without their best defenseman and 2 best forwardS. Yeah, the wings don't have any players like Zetterberg or Dats, that but we still have a very, very, good young core, probably top 5 in the league with another top 5 farm system. The wings will be fine. We will have strong ownership and FAs will help shore up the areas we lack. We're in a better position going forward than the vast majority of the league. I don't see the Wings being as bad as they were last year for at least another 5-7 years, and by then we've probably restocked on some more young talent. As long as Hakan and the scouting staff is still here and Illitch family run the team the Wings will be strong

 

[SoupGuru]

Smith is Lebda v2.0

It's actually kind of scary how well their stats align. Sure, they played on really different teams but I think comparison holds some value. I think Lebda was better in his zone than Smith is. But we could afford to shelter Lebda even more back in those days too, so...

Anyway, having a decent set of wheels is nice, but not really that valuable on its own.

 

[bullocks]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

 

[Overclass*]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

Does the USHL and OHL count?

 

[drw02]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

How the hell do you know what level of hockey people around here have played at?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

This is a fairly tired argument. There is a general understanding of the game. Also easy to rebut this is a player with the best hockey IQ of all time is a complete loser in trying to be an executive, coach and even basically explain the game at times.

The Great One might know less about the actual discussion and understanding of hockey than an avid die-hard Bantam you could come across at the AAA level. He has shown this continuously, every player is the greatest player he has ever seen and his failures since he hung up that skates in other roles around hockey are very well documented.

Feel free to list your credentials but nobody in the hockey world has better ones than Gretzky in terms of I played at this level so my opinion should mean more.

Also I would ask how valid do people find Bob McKenzie or Pierre Lebrun in terms of hockey knowledge?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

You don't have to have played to see that a guy like DeKeyser has a much higher hockey IQ than Kindl.

Or that guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom have/had sky high hockey IQs.

Why does it matter whether you've played or not? Playing yourself doesn't give you any more/less knowledge of assessing talent and stuff like hockey IQ. If it did, the myriad of former players-turned-coaches wouldn't be so damn abysmal at it.

Isaiah Thomas was a top player in the NBA when he was a player. He then managed to run multiple teams and a league into the ground. Wayne Gretzky was one of the top two or three hockey players ever and he is/was a miserable failure in building a team. Michael Jordan is one of the best players in NBA history and he's been one of the worst executives

Playing at a high level gives no indication of understanding a damn thing when it comes to team/player evaluation.

 

[The Zermanator]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

Worth noting that it's much easier to spot and quantify smart hockey plays when you're watching the entire play from above as a fan does than for a player who's at ice-level and can only see from his perspective. I'm sure we've all had that moment where we've gone 'WHY DIDN'T YOU PASS IT TO XYZ OVER THERE!?' Much easier for us to see and read possible options from a bird's eye view.

That's how I personally quantify a player's hockey IQ. The better their on-ice vision, and the better their ability to read a play developing around them, the better their hockey IQ.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Worth noting that it's much easier to spot and quantify smart hockey plays when you're watching the entire play from above as a fan does than for a player who's at ice-level and can only see from his perspective. I'm sure we've all had that moment where we've gone 'WHY DIDN'T YOU PASS IT TO XYZ OVER THERE!?' Much easier for us to see and read possible options from a bird's eye view.

That's how I personally quantify a player's hockey IQ. The better their on-ice vision, and the better their ability to read a play developing around them, the better their hockey IQ.

Yup and to make that observation, you don't need to have ever played hockey at any level. That would just be an indicator of your own hockey IQ, not your ability to see another person's.

 

[detredWINgs]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

Yeah. I forgot that you have to play the game at a high level in order to evaluate hockey IQ. Surely all the best hockey minds have played professional hockey, like Babcock. Or gotten any further than college club hockey, like Cup-winning GM Stan Bowman.

 

[PelagicJoe]

That's why Smith is so frustrating. There's the talent there to be a solid offensive Dman, but he never puts it all together. He's somewhat better defensively now, but his offensive game is a shade of what it was. Time for both Detroit and Smith to move on.

I too think that is the moral of the story. Smith just doesn't fit into our system. I say trade/sell before he depreciates more.

 

[stillwater]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

Is a Championship in grade 4 floor hockey enough?

MOD...

 

[Kyleftlx]

I think people underestimate the value of a defenseman that has legit offensive skill. I understand that the Red Wings have a very good powerplay, but not every game is decided on whichever team performs on the powerplay.

The Red Wings are 26th in the league in 5on5 goals for. They have scored 94 goals 5on5. That's above only NJ, CAR, ARZ, and BUF. Adding a very good defenseman that can contribute offensively can be a big addition to a team like Detroit. If Detroit didn't have such a great powerplay this season, the lack of offense from the backend would be a much bigger issue than it is so far, but overall it could be something to be concerned with that they can't seem to find the back of the net 5on5.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I love how people are acting like missing 17 million dollars in cap space won't be replaced with free agents and draft picks. Spoiler: every team would be a lot worse without their best defenseman and 2 best forwardS. Yeah, the wings don't have any players like Zetterberg or Dats, that but we still have a very, very, good young core, probably top 5 in the league with another top 5 farm system. The wings will be fine. We will have strong ownership and FAs will help shore up the areas we lack. We're in a better position going forward than the vast majority of the league. I don't see the Wings being as bad as they were last year for at least another 5-7 years, and by then we've probably restocked on some more young talent. As long as Hakan and the scouting staff is still here and Illitch family run the team the Wings will be strong

i am glad it wasnt me making this boneheaded comment again.

thanks

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think people underestimate the value of a defenseman that has legit offensive skill. I understand that the Red Wings have a very good powerplay, but not every game is decided on whichever team performs on the powerplay.

The Red Wings are 26th in the league in 5on5 goals for. They have scored 94 goals 5on5. That's above only NJ, CAR, ARZ, and BUF. Adding a very good defenseman that can contribute offensively can be a big addition to a team like Detroit. If Detroit didn't have such a great powerplay this season, the lack of offense from the backend would be a much bigger issue than it is so far, but overall it could be something to be concerned with that they can't seem to find the back of the net 5on5.

If it makes you feel better Mike Babcock has been harping on this for several years now. If only our GM understood this rather simple concept.

 

[TimoneX]

If it makes you feel better Mike Babcock has been harping on this for several years now. If only our GM understood this rather simple concept.

Wish that idiot Holland would have tried to get Suter when he was available!

 

[Run the Jewels]

Wish that idiot Holland would have tried to get Suter when he was available!

Ah so you are saying he was the lone guy Holland could have acquired? You're strong take is that there haven't been dozens of d-men available as UFA or traded since Suter signed with Minnesota?

 

[Probie]

I think people underestimate the value of a defenseman that has legit offensive skill. I understand that the Red Wings have a very good powerplay, but not every game is decided on whichever team performs on the powerplay.

The Red Wings are 26th in the league in 5on5 goals for. They have scored 94 goals 5on5. That's above only NJ, CAR, ARZ, and BUF. Adding a very good defenseman that can contribute offensively can be a big addition to a team like Detroit. If Detroit didn't have such a great powerplay this season, the lack of offense from the backend would be a much bigger issue than it is so far, but overall it could be something to be concerned with that they can't seem to find the back of the net 5on5.

I've said the same thing for quite sometime, as have others. Obviously the availability of a righty is less then a lefty, but we would still be better if we had a true number two defensmen that was a lefty that could move the puck out and jump start our offense. Have him on a diff pairing the kronwall and suddenly we have an extra 20 mins a night of getting the puck out efficiently. We have the 4th best prospect pool in the nhl, please Kenny make a deal. We have too many prospects in the nest year for spots, it would be great to move some now and improve the roster while we are doing so well this year.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I think people underestimate the value of a defenseman that has legit offensive skill. I understand that the Red Wings have a very good powerplay, but not every game is decided on whichever team performs on the powerplay.

The Red Wings are 26th in the league in 5on5 goals for. They have scored 94 goals 5on5. That's above only NJ, CAR, ARZ, and BUF. Adding a very good defenseman that can contribute offensively can be a big addition to a team like Detroit. If Detroit didn't have such a great powerplay this season, the lack of offense from the backend would be a much bigger issue than it is so far, but overall it could be something to be concerned with that they can't seem to find the back of the net 5on5.

EDM has played more 4 more games so their rate is 25th. but yes, it's an issue but they also don't give up a lot of goals. they have 2nd best GA.

offensively skilled defenseman would help, especially as even though wings have good shot differential, lot of their shots get blocked and offensive dman would help there. wings also don't seem to block a lot of shots or make the opponent miss the net. wings are first in shots against but they are ahead by larger margin in shot attempts against.

but they still should be better than that and it's pretty clear that it's babcock that is making them play more conservatively. they should have more offensive skill than that. he feels the tradeoff is worth it though, that it's more important to keep shots and goals against down. wings are 11th in 5on5 goal differential (ignoring empty nets). only on team finishes on worse than wings with their shots 5on5 (funny that that team is the hawks).

they'd still need someone to bury those shots.. offensive dman only helps so much. if zetterberg line and players like jurco can't put the puck on net, the issues would still exist. wings don't get a lot of shots on goal 5on5 and they don't finish well on those that they do get on net.

i would rather have it this way, than struggle keeping the puck out of our net.

 

[Invictus12]

Worth noting that it's much easier to spot and quantify smart hockey plays when you're watching the entire play from above as a fan does than for a player who's at ice-level and can only see from his perspective. I'm sure we've all had that moment where we've gone 'WHY DIDN'T YOU PASS IT TO XYZ OVER THERE!?' Much easier for us to see and read possible options from a bird's eye view.

That's how I personally quantify a player's hockey IQ. The better their on-ice vision, and the better their ability to read a play developing around them, the better their hockey IQ.

This!

I would also add that, for instance, in chess, (It's not hockey but, concept applies) even though you don't have a birds eye view, you generally can see what's happening on the board better when you're not in the game. So, I'd say emotions can also cloud a player in the way he plays. Those that keep their cool and react well in the game, to me, would signify as 'hockey IQ'.

 

[Gyldenlove]

EDM has played more 4 more games so their rate is 25th. but yes, it's an issue but they also don't give up a lot of goals. they have 2nd best GA.

offensively skilled defenseman would help, especially as even though wings have good shot differential, lot of their shots get blocked and offensive dman would help there. wings also don't seem to block a lot of shots or make the opponent miss the net. wings are first in shots against but they are ahead by larger margin in shot attempts against.

but they still should be better than that and it's pretty clear that it's babcock that is making them play more conservatively. they should have more offensive skill than that. he feels the tradeoff is worth it though, that it's more important to keep shots and goals against down. wings are 11th in 5on5 goal differential (ignoring empty nets). only on team finishes on worse than wings with their shots 5on5 (funny that that team is the hawks).

they'd still need someone to bury those shots.. offensive dman only helps so much. if zetterberg line and players like jurco can't put the puck on net, the issues would still exist. wings don't get a lot of shots on goal 5on5 and they don't finish well on those that they do get on net.

i would rather have it this way, than struggle keeping the puck out of our net.

I am not that worried about not scoring 5on5 that much because it is balanced by a very good 5on5 defense. The key is winning 5on5 consistently and the Wings are doing that.

 

[last_sd]

Its always worth a good laugh when people talk about "hockey IQ" like theyve ever played the game at a high level.

Really? that's your argument?
Than only people who can say anything about Hockey is former NHL players.

My your argument, everyone's argument is invalid unless they have PHD in the subject I guess. lol.

 

[Dotter]

I'm not advocating trading our picks/prospects for player that would help insignificantly, but if Holland/Wings want to go in, then they really need to trade Mantha, Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, XO, Mrazek and all our 2015 picks and go all in. Don't half ass it. Trade everything and go for that last push.

Then next season trade Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk and everyone else for a good 3-4 year tank job to score a ton of 1st overall picks.

If ya'll want to win, don't screw around... or half ass at. Go for broke or forget it.

That said, it's just ignorant making a trade, and I sure am glad Ken Holland is our GM and not some HFboard schmuck.

 

[Overclass*]

I'm not advocating trading our picks/prospects for player that would help insignificantly, but if Holland/Wings want to go in, they really need to trade Mantha, Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, XO, Mrazek and all our 2015 picks and go all in. Don't half ass it. Trade everything and go for that last push.

Then next season trade Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk and everyone else for a good 3-4 year tank job for a ton of 1st overall picks.

If ya'll want to win, don't screw around... and half ass at. Go for broke or forget it.

That said, that's just ignorant and glad Holland is our GM and not some HFboard schmuck.

Dont agree with that. The Wings cupboard is full enough where we can still acquire some pieces without mortgaging the future tremendously. We can prob get a decent package starting with Pulk, Sproul, +.
There's no player currently available that I think would warrant trading more than one of our top 5 prospects.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'm not advocating trading our picks/prospects for player that would help insignificantly, but if Holland/Wings want to go in, then they really need to trade Mantha, Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, XO, Mrazek and all our 2015 picks and go all in. Don't half ass it. Trade everything and go for that last push.

Then next season trade Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk and everyone else for a good 3-4 year tank job to score a ton of 1st overall picks.

If ya'll want to win, don't screw around... or half ass at. Go for broke or forget it.

That said, it's just ignorant making a trade, and I sure am glad Ken Holland is our GM and not some HFboard schmuck.

i wish their was something in between those extremes

making a good trade for the future for a youngish guy who is signed without having to trade mantha plus larkin plus a 1st plus mrazek to do so

only if i guess....