TSN: Dreger: Detroit won't be swapping 1st, 2nd or a quality prospect for a rental

[Dotter]

Dont agree with that. The Wings cupboard is full enough where we can still acquire some pieces without mortgaging the future tremendously. We can prob get a decent package starting with Pulk, Sproul, +.
There's no player currently available that I think would warrant trading more than one of our top 5 prospects.

What's the point in acquiring "some pieces"? If you trading assets, go big or go home. Wings aren't a Petry or a Green away from winning it all. Make yourself the best team in the NHL or just keep your assets and run with Marchy and XO.

Anything less is giving "gifts" to other teams for their UFA that won't improve our team enough to even matter.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What's the point in acquiring "some pieces"? If you trading assets, go big or go home. Wings aren't a Petry or a Green away from winning it all. Make yourself the best team in the NHL or just keep your assets and run with Marchy and XO.

Anything less is giving "gifts" to other teams for their UFA that won't improve our team enough to even matter.

yandle

wont cost anything more then spezza, ryan or kesler or hossa or kovalchuk and is a long term upgrade who isnt a ufa

 

[Dotter]

yandle

wont cost anything more then spezza, ryan or kesler or hossa or kovalchuk and is a long term upgrade who isnt a ufa

Source?

Also didn't know 'Yotes signed an extension with Yandle, thought his contract expires 2016. I miss capgeek.

 

[Overclass*]

What's the point in acquiring "some pieces"? If you trading assets, go big or go home. Wings aren't a Petry or a Green away from winning it all. Make yourself the best team in the NHL or just keep your assets and run with Marchy and XO.

Anything less is giving "gifts" to other teams for their UFA that won't improve our team enough to even matter.

The point of acquiring "some pieces" is that I think that's all the Wings need to significantly help our chances. Outside of Myers (who magically is looking great on a REAL team), Yandle helps us a ton, but for arguments sake accquiring him AND a player like Green ( know it won't happen, just an example) would be moving into the area of "diminishing returns". There's a happy medium that makes us competitive now while still having a contingency plan for the future

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Source?

Also didn't know 'Yotes signed an extension with Yandle, thought his contract expires 2016. I miss capgeek.

source is the nhl trade history over past decade

no player since eric lindros(who was thought of in same exact breath as modern day sidney crosby) has been traded for a ridiculous package.

trades are almost always the same
-young cost controlled player who hasent yet really established himself as producing nhl player but has upside
- a good but not top/elite prospect
- 1st rd pick
- depth prospect/cap dump

yandle isnt a ufa he isnt a 2 month player

 

[Dotter]

The point of acquiring "some pieces" is that I think that's all the Wings need to significantly help our chances. Outside of Myers (who magically is looking great on a REAL team), Yandle helps us a ton, but for arguments sake accquiring him AND a player like Green ( know it won't happen, just an example) would be moving into the area of "diminishing returns". There's a happy medium that makes us competitive now while still having a contingency plan for the future

I disagree. Adding Yandle alone (and he will cost ALOT!) won't turn this team into a powerhouse to win it all. If Wings can "win it all" with Yandle, then they have a chance to win without him. Wings aren't a Yandle away from being up there with the Hawks, 2008 Wings, the cup winning Bruins. They're just not.

Instead, you want to gift the 'Yotes assets for a player who's contract expires in 2016 that won't push the team over the hump.

That's just bad asset management. If you want to win, go all in. Don't half ass it.

 

[Dotter]

source is the nhl trade history over past decade

Didn't realize any of those guys you listed were defenseman.

You're better off using the Myers trade as an example. So that would be Kronwall + XO + Tatar for Yandle and a bunch of spare pieces... in a fair comparison.

I used XO to sweeten the deal since Kronwall is pushing 35 years of age... or you can throw in the 1st rounder instead. And I used Tatar because he brings a scoring element Kane is capable of. In honesty, Kane has more trade value than Tatar, but I consider that offset with the spare pieces thrown in from the Myers trade.

If you are going to use 'examples', please use something that makes sense... not some forward who was traded years ago.

EDIT:

And if you think 'Yotes are trading Yandle for what you "think he is worth" is also a misconception on your part. They very well could want a significant amount more than Sabres got for Myers.

You're assuming this is a slam dunk trade if Holland wanted to trade his 1st, which, from everything I've read, isn't the case at all... especially due to the fact that rumors of Yandle has been on the trading block for years, yet there he is, still playing for the lowly Yotes. This isn't NHL 2015 or whatever it is you kids play now a days.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I disagree. Adding Yandle alone (and he will cost ALOT!) won't turn this team into a powerhouse to win it all. If Wings can "win it all" with Yandle, then they have a chance to win without him. Wings aren't a Yandle away from being up there with the Hawks, 2008 Wings, the cup winning Bruins. They're just not.

Instead, you want to gift the 'Yotes assets for a player who's contract expires in 2016 that won't push the team over the hump.

That's just bad asset management. If you want to win, go all in. Don't half ass it.

yandle isnt just a playoff rental by the very definition that he isnt a ufa

yandle has a proven track record of being among the very best point producing dmen in the world

yandle plays more even strength ice time than any single DRW dman and in fact more than OEL,

yandle if a member of the DRW would very likely lead all dmen for us in pts in the playoffs, whether it were one round or four. To me that's a significant impact

the hf board fear tactics that it would "cost alot" are republican style fear mongering designed solely to elicit a negative response.

name the last time a player was traded in the nhl for a ridiculous overpayment, let alone a 28 year old with one year left on his contract.? Go....

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Didn't realize any of those guys you listed were defenseman.

You're better off using the Myers trade as an example. So that would be Kronwall + XO + Tatar for Yandle and a bunch of spare pieces... in a fair comparison.

I used XO to sweeten the deal since Kronwall is pushing 35 years of age... or you can throw in the 1st rounder instead. And I used Tatar because he brings a scoring element Kane is capable of. In honesty, Kane has more trade value than Tatar, but I consider that offset with the spare pieces thrown in from the Myers trade.

If you are going to use 'examples', please use something that makes sense... not some forward who was traded years ago.

myers was traded for bogosian

and buffalo lost that trade

buffalo fans thought myers would bring back a kings ransom and in fact kept posing a quote from tim murray to back that up, and in the end, they got back a jokers ransom

pls break that trade down as it has been dozens of times by people in the business and in the know

 

[Dotter]

myers was traded for bogosian

and buffalo lost that trade

buffalo fans thought myers would bring back a kings ransom and in fact kept posing a quote from tim murray to back that up, and in the end, they got back a jokers ransom

pls break that trade down as it has been dozens of times by people in the business and in the know

No he wasn't. He was traded along with some spare parts and a draft pick for Bogosian AND Evader Kane (23 year old power forward)

You also seem to have this misconception that Yotes' are going to accept anything that you think is fair trade value for Yandle. Which isn't the case at all.

If he can be had for what you think he is valued at, he'd already be long gone. Again, this isn't NHL 2015.

And to reiterate, Wings aren't a Yandle away from winning it all. Especially at the cost it will take to acquire him

 

[PullHard]

Not that I'm really invested or involved in this convo, but Drew Stafford, Brendan Lemieux, and Joel Armia are far from spare parts, Dotter.

 

[Dotter]

Not that I'm really invested or involved in this convo, but Drew Stafford, Brendan Lemieux, and Joel Armia are far from spare parts, Dotter.

Drew Stafford has the most trade value, and he is nothing special. The latter two guys are former young 1st round draft picks that may or may not amount to anything. If anything, that might just prove that Larkin and Mantha have less trade value than many here seem to think.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No he wasn't. He was traded along with some spare parts and a draft pick for Bogosian AND Evader Kane (23 year old power forward)

You also seem to have this misconception that Yotes' are going to accept anything that you think is fair trade value for Yandle. Which isn't the case at all.

If he can be had for what you think he is valued at, he'd already be long gone. Again, this isn't NHL 2015.

And to reiterate, Wings aren't a Yandle away from winning it all. Especially at the cost it will take to acquire him

whether the yotes feel what i post on hf boards is sufficient enough to pry yandle away is beyond the point

IF yandle is traded it will be for the very same sort of pckg we have seen the last decade in the nhl(young cost controlled forward, good prospect, 1st rd pick)

if he isnt traded is solely because no team offered up that pckg. Keith Yandle will not establish a new bench mark for trades in the nhl

i hardly consider a former 30 goal scoring rt winger, a top prospect, a very good prospect and a 1st rd pick for evander kane( an imature locker room cancer who the players did not want around and who by all accounts quit on his team but yes potential great power forward) would be considered "spare parts."

the wings are not a yandle away from winning it all, i 100% agree.

but we do and have needed a yandle level player for the better part of the last half decade and untill such time as we find one and get one we wont be winning anything

 

[Invictus12]

I'm not advocating trading our picks/prospects for player that would help insignificantly, but if Holland/Wings want to go in, then they really need to trade Mantha, Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist, XO, Mrazek and all our 2015 picks and go all in. Don't half ass it. Trade everything and go for that last push.

Then next season trade Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk and everyone else for a good 3-4 year tank job to score a ton of 1st overall picks.

If ya'll want to win, don't screw around... or half ass at. Go for broke or forget it.

That said, it's just ignorant making a trade, and I sure am glad Ken Holland is our GM and not some HFboard schmuck.

I don't think it necessarily has to be as black and white.

Keep in mind that our youngsters are young. Meaning we're pretty well set for a while and therefore, can make big moves. Either way, we'll have to move pieces sooner or later...

Something like Hamilton + Erikkson for Mantha, Ouellet, Smith + pick...

This is just an example but, given our forward depth and still having Pulkkinen, Larkin and Athansiou.... Adding Eriksson which might help now and Hamilton that pretty much gives us a definitive future top D-Man... I'm sure you'll see my point.

You can give up to get and still having a good future.

 

[PullHard]

Drew Stafford has the most trade value, and he is nothing special. The latter two guys are former young 1st round draft picks that may or may not amount to anything. If anything, that might just prove that Larkin and Mantha have less trade value than many here seem to think.

Armia's hype has died down but he is a recent 16th overall pick and was a standout for Finland in at least one WJC tournament that I recall in the last couple of years. Lemieux was a guy some scouts had projected going in the late 1st round and ended being the first pick of the 2nd round just last summer. These aren't long shots to make the NHL, these are guys who will pretty likely be there in a couple of years if their development keeps going the way its been going. Armia could be a fixture in the Jets top 9 by the end of next season. Stafford is a top 6 winger on most teams and has scored 35-50 points a season in this league pretty routinely. He might be more of a top 9 winger just due to his physical ability as well, but he is the type of guy who would be getting the Abdelkader minutes in our top 6 if he was a Wing IMO.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Dont agree with that. The Wings cupboard is full enough where we can still acquire some pieces without mortgaging the future tremendously. We can prob get a decent package starting with Pulk, Sproul, +.
There's no player currently available that I think would warrant trading more than one of our top 5 prospects.

MOD. The Wings have known for a long time they need to add a puck moving offensive d-man, preferably a right handed one. All you need to look at is all the trade and free agent chatter about guys Detroit would be interested in acquiring over the past 2-3 years. With that being the case it's entirely reasonable to discuss trades to address those needs the organization has signaled they are trying to address.

Holland has completely struck out on all of the guys he has gone after. If Yandle is available he fits every single need we have other than being left handed. Don't worry, I'm sure Holland will be busy twiddling this thumbs and we won't be involved in any serious negotiations for Yandle. History tells us as much. Holland is a much different GM than he was when he acquired guys like Mathieu Schneider and Chris Chelios.

Then we'll get to hear Holland give his typical milquetoast response on how he likes his team, you know the one that has been a 1st or 2nd round casualty for 5 straight years.

 

[norrisnick]

MOD The Wings have known for a long time they need to add a puck moving offensive d-man, preferably a right handed one. All you need to look at is all the trade and free agent chatter about guys Detroit would be interested in acquiring over the past 2-3 years. With that being the case it's entirely reasonable to discuss trades to address those needs the organization has signaled they are trying to address.

Holland has completely struck out on all of the guys he has gone after. If Yandle is available he fits every single need we have other than being left handed. Don't worry, I'm sure Holland will be busy twiddling this thumbs and we won't be involved in any serious negotiations for Yandle. History tells us as much. Holland is a much different GM than he was when he acquired guys like Mathieu Schneider and Chris Chelios.

Then we'll get to hear Holland give his typical milquetoast response on how he likes his team, you know the one that has been a 1st or 2nd round casualty for 5 straight years.

And being even passably good at defense.

 

[Roy S]

Didn't realize any of those guys you listed were defenseman.

You're better off using the Myers trade as an example. So that would be Kronwall + XO + Tatar for Yandle and a bunch of spare pieces... in a fair comparison.

I used XO to sweeten the deal since Kronwall is pushing 35 years of age... or you can throw in the 1st rounder instead. And I used Tatar because he brings a scoring element Kane is capable of. In honesty, Kane has more trade value than Tatar, but I consider that offset with the spare pieces thrown in from the Myers trade.

If you are going to use 'examples', please use something that makes sense... not some forward who was traded years ago.

EDIT:

And if you think 'Yotes are trading Yandle for what you "think he is worth" is also a misconception on your part. They very well could want a significant amount more than Sabres got for Myers.

You're assuming this is a slam dunk trade if Holland wanted to trade his 1st, which, from everything I've read, isn't the case at all... especially due to the fact that rumors of Yandle has been on the trading block for years, yet there he is, still playing for the lowly Yotes. This isn't NHL 2015 or whatever it is you kids play now a days.

Tatar for Yandle by itself isn't even a fair trade for the Wings.

There is no way Yandle would cost what some are suggesting. He plays heavily sheltered minutes at ES and on the 2nd or 3rd pairing. GM's are all aware of that. He has to play in a highly specialized role to be effective so his trade value is lower than what his point totals would suggest.

Ideally, the Wings would get someone who can play next to Kronwall and move Ericsson down in the lineup. But, Yandle doesn't accomplish that.

 

[Run the Jewels]

And being even passably good at defense.

Ah yes, I fondly recall people saying Tyler Myers had lost it and was no longer an offensive d-man. Some like myself argued it was probably due to playing on a dreadful team in Buffalo. Sure enough he moves to Winnipeg and scored 1 goal and tallied 5 points over his last 4 games. I am pretty sure you would see Yandle return to being a 1.3ish point/60 minutes guy at even strength if he played on a team that had more offensive firepower. Plus all of our d-men and most of our forwards provide plenty of defensive "awareness".

So no, you are not acquiring Yandle to be a shutdown defensive defensemen. You are acquiring him to improve your 5v5 scoring, which has been among the worst in the league this season.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I'm confused, would Green be considered a rental? I mean technically he is, but if we give up assets to obtain him he'd be here for a long time.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I'm confused, would Green be considered a rental? I mean technically he is, but if we give up assets to obtain him he'd be here for a long time.

I don't view him as a rental. I would expect the Wings to do their due diligence and get some kind of verbal agreement that he will sign a new contract with the Wings before making the trade.

I personally don't see it happening unless it makes both teams better right now. Won't be a picks and prospects type of trade.

 

[Henkka]

Ah yes, I fondly recall people saying Tyler Myers had lost it and was no longer an offensive d-man. Some like myself argued it was probably due to playing on a dreadful team in Buffalo. Sure enough he moves to Winnipeg and scored 1 goal and tallied 5 points over his last 4 games. I am pretty sure you would see Yandle return to being a 1.3ish point/60 minutes guy at even strength if he played on a team that had more offensive firepower. Plus all of our d-men and most of our forwards provide plenty of defensive "awareness".

So no, you are not acquiring Yandle to be a shutdown defensive defensemen. You are acquiring him to improve your 5v5 scoring, which has been among the worst in the league this season.

But we are 2nd best team in in the league at 5-on-5 goals against. Getting Yandle would weaken that area, because he is very mediocre on defensive play.

TOP3 teams in 5-on-5 goals against are Montreal, Nashville Detroit. First two because of their Vezina goalies, Red Wings because our style of play.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...l&sort=goalsAgainst5On5&viewName=goalsAgainst

Yandle will be better fit for a team like Tampa. Their PP quarterbacks will suck, he would strengthen that area. And Yzerman has extra 1sts + kids to complete a great rebuild-trade with Arizona.

 

[detredWINgs]

Ah yes, I fondly recall people saying Tyler Myers had lost it and was no longer an offensive d-man. Some like myself argued it was probably due to playing on a dreadful team in Buffalo. Sure enough he moves to Winnipeg and scored 1 goal and tallied 5 points over his last 4 games. I am pretty sure you would see Yandle return to being a 1.3ish point/60 minutes guy at even strength if he played on a team that had more offensive firepower. Plus all of our d-men and most of our forwards provide plenty of defensive "awareness".

So no, you are not acquiring Yandle to be a shutdown defensive defensemen. You are acquiring him to improve your 5v5 scoring, which has been among the worst in the league this season.

Saying that Myers was as bad as he was showing in Buffalo was silly and I certainly commented on how playing for a terrible team is going to take its toll on a player. But saying that the way a guy has played in the first 5 games with his new, competitive team when the adrenaline is pumping and the gratitude is boundless is just as silly.

 

[Tatar]

But we are 2nd best team in in the league at 5-on-5 goals against. Getting Yandle would weaken that area, because he is very mediocre on defensive play.

TOP3 teams in 5-on-5 goals against are Montreal, Nashville Detroit. First two because of their Vezina goalies, Red Wings because our style of play.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...l&sort=goalsAgainst5On5&viewName=goalsAgainst

Yandle will be better fit for a team like Tampa. Their PP quarterbacks will suck, he would strengthen that area. And Yzerman has extra 1sts + kids to complete a great rebuild-trade with Arizona.

Neither Price or Rinne have won the Vezina trophy, and up until yesterday's insane 7-6 game, Howard was 3rd in the league in GAA

 

[Flowah]

Neither Price or Rinne have won the Vezina trophy, and up until yesterday's insane 7-6 game, Howard was 3rd in the league in GAA

They're Vezina caliber, that is for damn sure. Both are the heavy favorites for this year.

And while we're great at 5v5 GA, our 5v5 GF is not good. We're relying too heavily on our #1 PP. Need to find someway to get our ES scoring up. A PMD would help.