TSN: Dreger: Detroit won't be swapping 1st, 2nd or a quality prospect for a rental

[Claypool]

We have a winner here! I'm glad you get it. Once D, Z, and Kronwall are gone, so are any chances at the Cup. As soon as they start to rapidly decline, this team's window is closed. This year, or possibly next year (depending on health) will most likely be our last chance to win a cup for a LONG time. Who cares if Holland has to mortgage our future to win now. It's not like there's a future to mortgage without Z,D, or Kronwall (in terms of competing for the Cup). I'm tired of the round 1 and 2 exits. Acquiring a Yandle or a Sekera may put us over the top this year. I wish Holland would go all in and make a deal happen. Holland knows the window is closing, is he really just going to sit down and do nothing? If he wants to get his 4th Cup as GM, the clock is ticking and its almost at zero.

Andrej Sekera is the missing piece for a Stanley Cup? What have you been smoking? Yandle would be a nice addition, but not at the cost of this team's important young roster players. The Red Wings already have the #1 power play in the league. If anything they need to acquire more defensive-minded players like they did with Brad Stuart. They need someone that won't turn the puck over in their own zone and can clear the puck out on the first attempt on penalty kills.

 

[TimoneX]

Sorry...but this borders on ridiculous. Z, D and Kronwall, while older and declining are not going anywhere for at least a few years. The next wave of talent is already here. In the meantime continue to plug and acquire.

To suggest that the window is closing rapidly is not really based in reality.

Reality is that this team is on in the uptrend.

Agree completely. The dead wings 2.0 theme song isn't playing.

Andrej Sekera is the missing piece for a Stanley Cup? What have you been smoking?

Sekera is just the next "gotta have a new toy" guy now that Franson is off the table. Sekera isn't a significant upgrade.

 

[drw02]

Meh. DDK is not right handed and he's above Smith on the depth chart. Many complain about seeing E on the top pairing, but night in and night out Babs sees him as a better option there.

I saw Smith on the PK and was a bit surprised with the decision. In the 2nd period and shorthanded Smith chose to send a weak pass up the middle from behind his own goal line resulting in a turnover which Jimmy had to bail him out on.

He's better than he was years ago defensively, but he's not a great puck mover and his offense has dried up. I still prefer him to Kindl, but not by all that much.

Smith has been on the PK since like forever. One mistake doesn't make him bad. You could watch Ryan Suter play an entire game and you'll see a couple mistakes.

He is a good puck mover, he leads our team in on ice corsi. Shows he generally moves/keeps the puck out of our zone and in the other teams zone...which is why he also leads our team in overall shot differential.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We have a winner here! I'm glad you get it. Once D, Z, and Kronwall are gone, so are any chances at the Cup. As soon as they start to rapidly decline, this team's window is closed. This year, or possibly next year (depending on health) will most likely be our last chance to win a cup for a LONG time. Who cares if Holland has to mortgage our future to win now. It's not like there's a future to mortgage without Z,D, or Kronwall (in terms of competing for the Cup). I'm tired of the round 1 and 2 exits. Acquiring a Yandle or a Sekera may put us over the top this year. I wish Holland would go all in and make a deal happen. Holland knows the window is closing, is he really just going to sit down and do nothing? If he wants to get his 4th Cup as GM, the clock is ticking and its almost at zero.

This thinking absolutely blows my mind.

We weren't in the playoffs when Zetterberg and Datsyuk both got hurt last year. In late Jan, early Feb, we were outside of the playoff picture. With those two gone for most of the rest of the year, we gained on other teams and eventually got in.

But yeah, as soon as they retire, we're dead in the water and might as well pack up shop.

The Wings are set up to continue winning for a long time. They've got a solid base of talent right now. Nyquist, Tatar, and Sheahan are all top 6 players right this second and they still have room to grow. Pulkkinen is tearing apart the AHL and Mantha still has the hype to be the best of them all. Larkin is looking like he could be a 1C in the future.

If they make no moves, they could have a reasonably strong top 6 with just the guys in the organization.

Then, on D, they have DeKeyser who is a top 4 guy now and still has room to develop into a top pairing guy. Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are all wildcards, but Ouellet and Marchenko are looking like viable NHLers right now. If they top out as top 4 guys, you've got a #2, a #3, and a #4 in the organization.

I mean, some of this is really optimistic thinking, but a lot of it is a reasonable extension of what those players have done.

If anything, the Wings are better positioned to win for a long time than they've been in quite a while. Nyquist and Tatar are going to crack that window of contention right back open.

 

[TimoneX]

Smith has been on the PK since like forever. One mistake doesn't make him bad. You could watch Ryan Suter play an entire game and you'll see a couple mistakes.

He is a good puck mover, he leads our team in on ice corsi. Shows he generally moves/keeps the puck out of our zone and in the other teams zone...which is why he also leads our team in overall shot differential.

Suter? Seriously? Suter does a whole bunch of stuff right. Everyone makes an occasional bone headed play, but Smith makes the same ones over and over. He's not terrible, but he's progressing at a snails pace and getting passed by rookies on the depth chart. He's easily replaceable unlike any of the top 4 and probably Marchenko.

 

[Tatar]

This is how I feel about it as well. We have Ouellet and Marchenko who can take his spot. Then Work on finding a top 3 d in FA or a bigger trade.

I'd say trade Kindl and Smith for picks in this years draft and plug their holes with Ouellet and Marachenko. Opens up space for Backman and De Haas/McNulty/Wheaton/McKee in GR

 

[sean3250]

Sorry...but this borders on ridiculous. Z, D and Kronwall, while older and declining are not going anywhere for at least a few years. The next wave of talent is already here. In the meantime continue to plug and acquire.

To suggest that the window is closing rapidly is not really based in reality.

Reality is that this team is on in the uptrend.

Datsyuk is most likely retiring in two years. Z and Kronwall will be 36 going on 37 by the time Datsyuk is gone. No team in the Salary Cap Era has even won a cup with their best players all in their mid to late 30's. The problem with this next wave of talent, is there are no Z,D, or Kronwall replacements. That's a huge problem, IMO. I'm not confident, in Holland's ability to plug and acquire. He hasn't made a beneficial signing or trade in years. I'm not expecting him to go out and make the trades necessary to make this team a contender like Chicago or LA did in the past few years. The last two players Holland traded for were Quincey and Legwand. I wouldn't call those impact trades. He hasn't done much in free agency either (even though it's not his fault if people don't want to sign here). I don't think me stating that our Cup window is closing in 1-2 years is that ridiculous at all. If anything, I believe it's a very realistic expectation based on the team we have, and the people running this team.

 

[Satrebil]

Datsyuk is most likely retiring in two years. Z and Kronwall will be 36 going on 37 by the time Datsyuk is gone. No team in the Salary Cap Era has even won a cup with their best players all in their mid to late 30's. The problem with this next wave of talent, is there are no Z,D, or Kronwall replacements. That's a huge problem, IMO. I'm not confident, in Holland's ability to plug and acquire. He hasn't made a beneficial signing or trade in years. I'm not expecting him to go out and make the trades necessary to make this team a contender like Chicago or LA did in the past few years. The last two players Holland traded for were Quincey and Legwand. I wouldn't call those impact trades. He hasn't done much in free agency either (even though it's not his fault if people don't want to sign here). I don't think me stating that our Cup window is closing in 1-2 years is that ridiculous at all. If anything, I believe it's a very realistic expectation based on the team we have, and the people running this team.

If the team had Z, D & Kronwall replacements, they'd be in their place.

Kind of a progressive dynamic, isn't it?

And haven't we seen that progress with Tatar, Nyquist, etc?

 

[TimoneX]

Datsyuk is most likely retiring in two years. Z and Kronwall will be 36 going on 37 by the time Datsyuk is gone. No team in the Salary Cap Era has even won a cup with their best players all in their mid to late 30's. The problem with this next wave of talent, is there are no Z,D, or Kronwall replacements. That's a huge problem, IMO. I'm not confident, in Holland's ability to plug and acquire. He hasn't made a beneficial signing or trade in years. I'm not expecting him to go out and make the trades necessary to make this team a contender like Chicago or LA did in the past few years. The last two players Holland traded for were Quincey and Legwand. I wouldn't call those impact trades. He hasn't done much in free agency either (even though it's not his fault if people don't want to sign here). I don't think me stating that our Cup window is closing in 1-2 years is that ridiculous at all. If anything, I believe it's a very realistic expectation based on the team we have, and the people running this team.

What makes you say that? Are you aware that Nyquist got to 100pts in fewer games played than Z or D? Tats & Sheahan are showing a whole lot of skill and I don't think the gap between Kronwall & DDK is all that massive either. Then there's the significant backlog of talent in Grand Rapids that the Wings can access going forward. Don't understand all the gloom and doom.

 

[PelagicJoe]

He's only 25 (fairly young for a D-man), he's barely played 2 full NHL seasons. He's not a finished product. He's a much better defensive player than Kindl. The way Smith and Kindl are/were deployed isn't remotely similar.

While he doesn't often face the highest QoC (which is not up to him how he's deployed) the advanced stats suggest he's been a solid player for us this year. No he isn't perfect, it would be nice to see some more offensive production and continue to cut down the turnovers. Remains to be seen if he can make the next step in his career. But to say he's flat out terrible is just ridiculously ignorant.

Well, if he turns it around and improves a lot, I'll gladly eat my hat in your honor. (Sorry to rip off the bit from the other guy here who always says he'll eat his hat. )

 

[TimoneX]

Well, if he turns it around and improves a lot, I'll gladly eat my hat in your honor. (Sorry to rip off the bit from the other guy here who always says he'll eat his hat. )

That's really the problem with Brendan Smith. Even his staunchest defenders usually say "well at least he's no Kindl". Hardly a glowing endorsement.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Andrej Sekera is the missing piece for a Stanley Cup? What have you been smoking? Yandle would be a nice addition, but not at the cost of this team's important young roster players. The Red Wings already have the #1 power play in the league. If anything they need to acquire more defensive-minded players like they did with Brad Stuart. They need someone that won't turn the puck over in their own zone and can clear the puck out on the first attempt on penalty kills.

sekera is defensive minded player and would help exactly on those things.

he's easily better than any defenseman on the roster not named kronwall. he's top pairing defender or at least close to it. way, way better defensively than someone like yandle.

i don't even want to trade him for that bad as there would be still issues at RD and the price would probably be too high for him as he might be just a rental.

 

[PelagicJoe]

He's already way better than Kindl. And he's also night and day better than he was 2 years ago.

Having said that, I don't think he will ever fit in under Babcock so I would be happy trading him in a package for an upgrade on D. Acquiring Petry is not an upgrade.

Being better than Kindl isn't really saying much. After Kindl, looking at all of our D, Smith comes up as the odd man out and the one who brings the least to the table every time I look at it.

 

[Satrebil]

sekera is defensive minded player and would help exactly on those things.

he's easily better than any defenseman on the roster not named kronwall. he's top pairing defender or at least close to it. way, way better defensively than someone like yandle.

i don't even want to trade him for that bad as there would be still issues at RD and the price would probably be too high for him as he might be just a rental.

Agreed, Sekera would be a big upgrade on D. Would take him over anyone else. But the cost will be too high.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Henkka pulled this info in another topic.

Here's some data:

2005-06 Zetterbe, 25yo, 77gp, 39+46=85p, 1.104 p/g, 18:57 IT, 0.0583 p/min
2003-04 Datsyuk, 25yo, 75gp, 30+38=68p, 0.907 p/g, 18:16 IT, 0.0496 p/min
2014-15 Nyquist, 25yo, 46gp, 18+16=34p, 0.739 p/g, 17:06 IT, 0.0432 p/min
2015-16 Tatar, 25yo (not yet 25 year-old)

As 25-year-old, Zetterberg was quite superior, but also scoring became easier after the lockout. Imo, that 2005-06 season isn't comparable for nowadays scoring. and especially not before that.

2002-03 Datsyuk, 24yo, 64gp, 12+39=51p, 0.797 p/g, 15:27 IT, 0.0516 p/min
2013-14 Nyquist, 24yo, 57gp, 28+20=48p, 0.842 p/g, 16:51 IT, 0.0500 p/min
2014-15 Tatar,,, 24yo, 46gp, 21+13=34p, 0.739 p/g, 15:28 IT, 0.0478 p/min
2005-06 Zetterberg, 24yo (lockout)

Not a big difference in here, at points/minute values. Zetterberg missing a season.

2005-06 Zetterbe, 23yo, 61gp, 15+28=43p, 0.705 p/g, 18:14 IT, 0.0387 p/min
2013-14 Tatar,,,,, 23yo, 73gp, 19+20=39p, 0.534 p/g, 14:21 IT, 0.0372 p/min
2001-02 Datsyuk, 23yo, 70gp, 11+24=35p, 0.500 p/g, 13:38 IT, 0.0367 p/min
2012-13 Nyquist,, 23yo, 18gp, 1 + 6= 7p, 0.389 p/g, 10:35 IT, 0.0367 p/min

This is what makes this comparison crazy. Almost equal points/min values at rookie/2nd seasons as 23-year old. But big differencies, how much IT they could carry. Zetterberg has been the only big-minute netting pro on that age.

They're not exactly Datsyuk and Zetterberg reborn... but they're one hell of a lot closer than you're giving them credit for. Plus, those teams that Datsyuk and Zetterberg were on in the mid 2000s were far superior to the Wings teams they've been icing the last couple years.

 

[sean3250]

Andrej Sekera is the missing piece for a Stanley Cup? What have you been smoking? Yandle would be a nice addition, but not at the cost of this team's important young roster players. The Red Wings already have the #1 power play in the league. If anything they need to acquire more defensive-minded players like they did with Brad Stuart. They need someone that won't turn the puck over in their own zone and can clear the puck out on the first attempt on penalty kills.

A player such as Sekera would at least give us a fighting chance. He is instantly our second best dman. Sekera does a good job of moving the puck and not turning it over. He chips in offense as well. I am a big Yandle fan, and I'd think he would make us Cup favorites in the east. I don't agree with you on how much he would cost. We can agree to disagree because we both know that Holland isn't going to take a risk and trade for him anyway.

This thinking absolutely blows my mind.

We weren't in the playoffs when Zetterberg and Datsyuk both got hurt last year. In late Jan, early Feb, we were outside of the playoff picture. With those two gone for most of the rest of the year, we gained on other teams and eventually got in.

But yeah, as soon as they retire, we're dead in the water and might as well pack up shop.

The Wings are set up to continue winning for a long time. They've got a solid base of talent right now. Nyquist, Tatar, and Sheahan are all top 6 players right this second and they still have room to grow. Pulkkinen is tearing apart the AHL and Mantha still has the hype to be the best of them all. Larkin is looking like he could be a 1C in the future.

If they make no moves, they could have a reasonably strong top 6 with just the guys in the organization.

Then, on D, they have DeKeyser who is a top 4 guy now and still has room to develop into a top pairing guy. Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are all wildcards, but Ouellet and Marchenko are looking like viable NHLers right now. If they top out as top 4 guys, you've got a #2, a #3, and a #4 in the organization.

I mean, some of this is really optimistic thinking, but a lot of it is a reasonable extension of what those players have done.

If anything, the Wings are better positioned to win for a long time than they've been in quite a while. Nyquist and Tatar are going to crack that window of contention right back open.

Correct, the young guns dragged us into the playoffs last year. 5 games later, we were done. Let's see how they fair this year. A team based on wingers as your best players, don't win cups. It just never happens, especially in the Salary cap era. Unless Larkin develops into a legit 1C detroit is toast. Detroit would be lucky for any of their D prospects to become a top pairing guy. I look at our D prospects and I see lots of #3, #4, and #5 guys. Maybe we get lucky and Dekeyser or Ouellet top out as #2's.

Without a very good 1C or 1D, teams just don't win the Cup. Lots of fans, like to believe that Detroit is building this team in the model of St. Louis or Boston. There are a few problems with that model. First off, Boston has one the cup once using that model. St. Louis hasn't (although who knows about the next few years). While Boston and St. Louis are built in the model of scoring wingers, and two way center play, look at those teams talent. St. Louis has an elite 1D in Pietrangelo, and great top pairing guys such as Shattenkirk and J-Bo ( An area where Detroit is lacking). When Boston won the Cup, they had Chara (elite 1D), Thomas (elite 1G), Bergeron (good 1C) and Krejci (good 1C). I definitely don't see a 1D in the system and maybe we get lucky and Larkin is that 1C. Maybe Mrazek becomes that 1G. It's too early to tell, but I think there are definitely some causes for concern.

 

[Flowah]

This thinking absolutely blows my mind.

We weren't in the playoffs when Zetterberg and Datsyuk both got hurt last year. In late Jan, early Feb, we were outside of the playoff picture. With those two gone for most of the rest of the year, we gained on other teams and eventually got in.

But yeah, as soon as they retire, we're dead in the water and might as well pack up shop.

The Wings are set up to continue winning for a long time. They've got a solid base of talent right now. Nyquist, Tatar, and Sheahan are all top 6 players right this second and they still have room to grow. Pulkkinen is tearing apart the AHL and Mantha still has the hype to be the best of them all. Larkin is looking like he could be a 1C in the future.

If they make no moves, they could have a reasonably strong top 6 with just the guys in the organization.

Then, on D, they have DeKeyser who is a top 4 guy now and still has room to develop into a top pairing guy. Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are all wildcards, but Ouellet and Marchenko are looking like viable NHLers right now. If they top out as top 4 guys, you've got a #2, a #3, and a #4 in the organization.

I mean, some of this is really optimistic thinking, but a lot of it is a reasonable extension of what those players have done.

If anything, the Wings are better positioned to win for a long time than they've been in quite a while. Nyquist and Tatar are going to crack that window of contention right back open.

We'll probably be in the playoffs with this group for a decade at least. But that's different than competing for the cup. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are *world class.* We're talking about players who can go PPG while playing an exceptional, Selke level shut down game. Each of them can carry their own line. The best teams build down the middle and neither Nyquist nor Tatar are centers. As good as they are and might become, will they ever be Z/D level? I doubt it.

Our best chance is right now.

 

[drw02]

Tell me...what is Brendan Smith good at? What has he shown that makes KH resign him?

First and foremost he's an exceptional skater, best on the team in that regard imo. In today's NHL that is the biggest asset a player can have. His defensive game has grown immensely, decision making, positioning, ability to read play. Strong in board/puck battles, one of our more physical D-men. Been a stalwart for us on the PK. My eyes tell me he also has untapped offensive talent. Pretty smooth hands, especially for a D-man. Passing and shooting skills could still use some work but are hardly bad. Most people here seem to believe he deserves PP time indicating they also see the same offensive talent. I mean I don't hesitate to say I've been more impressed with Smith this year than I have been with Dekeyser.

 

[Winger98]

i don't think the difference in value between smith and Q is that much, that it makes it worth it to trade smith.

neither are world beaters but smith won't cost as much and has potential to improve. quincey is what he is.

Q does have fairly hefty deal so i'm not sure if that deal can be made without taking contract back or retaining salary.

that's why I don't think Edmonton, or most teams, would be interested in Quincey. Also, I don't see Smith fitting here long term at this point, so if we can make a move for better balance on the pairings, I'd be up for it.

There are no significant RHD upgrades available via trade.

Few would have been happy if KH had paid Toronto's price for Franson...particularly as the price would likely have been even higher for Detroit.

If Detroit can get Yandle to run on the left side for anything approaching reasonable then perhaps we have:

Kronwall - Ericsson
Yandle -Quincey
DDK - Marchenko
Smith/Kindl

Maybe DDK and Yandle are swapped. Still doesn't really knock my socks off, but it's a more significant change than anything involving Petry imo.

Few of us would have been happy of the deal for Franson, but at the same time a lateral swap of a lefty off our roster for a rightie wouldn't be a bad move. We're lefty heavy, and outside of Kronwall and DK, I don't think any of them are exactly untouchable. If we could find someone willing to do a lateral swap of our lefty for their righty, it wouldn't be the worst thing. We'd stand to improve just with better balance on the pairings.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We'll probably be in the playoffs with this group for a decade at least. But that's different than competing for the cup. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are *world class.* We're talking about players who can go PPG while playing an exceptional, Selke level shut down game. Each of them can carry their own line. The best teams build down the middle and neither Nyquist nor Tatar are centers. As good as they are and might become, will they ever be Z/D level? I doubt it.

Our best chance is right now.

I'd much rather take the chance that we're a second round team for ten years who can win a Cup with a couple bounces than make ourselves a prohibitive favorite for one or two and then be straight up garbage for the next 8 because we spent our young assets and ran ourselves up against the cap.

Trying to "win now" has killed way more franchises than it has ever helped.

 

[drw02]

Well, if he turns it around and improves a lot, I'll gladly eat my hat in your honor. (Sorry to rip off the bit from the other guy here who always says he'll eat his hat. )

He has turned it around somewhat....I'm not saying he's gonna turn into an all-star. Just that he's been a solid player for us this year. That is all.

 

[sean3250]

What makes you say that? Are you aware that Nyquist got to 100pts in fewer games played than Z or D? Tats & Sheahan are showing a whole lot of skill and I don't think the gap between Kronwall & DDK is all that massive either. Then there's the significant backlog of talent in Grand Rapids that the Wings can access going forward. Don't understand all the gloom and doom.

I commented on Nyquist and Tatar below.

There's a pretty big gap between DDK and Kronwall in my eyes. Kronwall averages 40 points a year based on his career totals. He has scored 50 before and basically hit it last year (49 in 79), all while playing excellent defense. He's on pace for 45 this year as well. Kronwall is a legit top 15 dman in this league. Dekeyser most likely doesn't touch the numbers Kronwall has hit. In fact, I wonder if DDK can even score 40 in a year, nevermind average that for his whole career.

It's not really doom and gloom as it is realism, at least IMO

Henkka pulled this info in another topic.

Here's some data:

2005-06 Zetterbe, 25yo, 77gp, 39+46=85p, 1.104 p/g, 18:57 IT, 0.0583 p/min
2003-04 Datsyuk, 25yo, 75gp, 30+38=68p, 0.907 p/g, 18:16 IT, 0.0496 p/min
2014-15 Nyquist, 25yo, 46gp, 18+16=34p, 0.739 p/g, 17:06 IT, 0.0432 p/min
2015-16 Tatar, 25yo (not yet 25 year-old)

As 25-year-old, Zetterberg was quite superior, but also scoring became easier after the lockout. Imo, that 2005-06 season isn't comparable for nowadays scoring. and especially not before that.

2002-03 Datsyuk, 24yo, 64gp, 12+39=51p, 0.797 p/g, 15:27 IT, 0.0516 p/min
2013-14 Nyquist, 24yo, 57gp, 28+20=48p, 0.842 p/g, 16:51 IT, 0.0500 p/min
2014-15 Tatar,,, 24yo, 46gp, 21+13=34p, 0.739 p/g, 15:28 IT, 0.0478 p/min
2005-06 Zetterberg, 24yo (lockout)

Not a big difference in here, at points/minute values. Zetterberg missing a season.

2005-06 Zetterbe, 23yo, 61gp, 15+28=43p, 0.705 p/g, 18:14 IT, 0.0387 p/min
2013-14 Tatar,,,,, 23yo, 73gp, 19+20=39p, 0.534 p/g, 14:21 IT, 0.0372 p/min
2001-02 Datsyuk, 23yo, 70gp, 11+24=35p, 0.500 p/g, 13:38 IT, 0.0367 p/min
2012-13 Nyquist,, 23yo, 18gp, 1 + 6= 7p, 0.389 p/g, 10:35 IT, 0.0367 p/min

This is what makes this comparison crazy. Almost equal points/min values at rookie/2nd seasons as 23-year old. But big differencies, how much IT they could carry. Zetterberg has been the only big-minute netting pro on that age.

They're not exactly Datsyuk and Zetterberg reborn... but they're one hell of a lot closer than you're giving them credit for. Plus, those teams that Datsyuk and Zetterberg were on in the mid 2000s were far superior to the Wings teams they've been icing the last couple years.

There are a few problem when it comes to comparing Nyquist and Tatar to D and Z. First, is there positions. Second, D and Z are elite defensive forwards. Datsyuk has 3 Selkes, and Z should have at least won one. Nyquist or Tatar are never going to win a Selke (even more so because there wingers).

Also everyone loves to compare Nyquist and Tatar to D and Z in their first two seasons, lets take a look at D and Z's third season.

In Zetterberg's third full season he scored 85 in 77
In Datsyuk's third full season he scored 68 in 75

While scoring may have been higher, does anyone honestly expect Nyquist or Tatar to put up those kind of numbers? I sure don't. Is anyone honestly expecting Nyquist or Tatar to be more than 60-65 point wingers? Maybe one of them hits 70-75 in a career year.

Nyquist and Tatar are not the second coming of D and Z nor are they their replacements.

 

[8snake]

First and foremost he's an exceptional skater, best on the team in that regard imo. In today's NHL that is the biggest asset a player can have. His defensive game has grown immensely, decision making, positioning, ability to read play. Strong in board/puck battles, one of our more physical D-men. Been a stalwart for us on the PK. My eyes tell me he also has untapped offensive talent. Pretty smooth hands, especially for a D-man. Passing and shooting skills could still use some work but are hardly bad. Most people here seem to believe he deserves PP time indicating they also see the same offensive talent. I mean I don't hesitate to say I've been more impressed with Smith this year than I have been with Dekeyser.

Brendan Smith's skating is and has always been overrated at an NHL level. He's a GOOD skater, not an elite Letang/Keith/Doughty/Subban level skater. DD is CLEARLY the best skating d-man on this current roster and there's really no debate. That's the problem with Smith IMO...all his natural talents were over-hyped. He was touted as an elite skater with offensive skill and a bit of a nasty side. He's shown a willingness to fight, but everything else he was touted to be hasn't manifested itself in the league.

 

[TimoneX]

I commented on Nyquist and Tatar below.

There's a pretty big gap between DDK and Kronwall in my eyes. Kronwall averages 40 points a year based on his career totals. He has scored 50 before and basically hit it last year (49 in 79), all while playing excellent defense. He's on pace for 45 this year as well. Kronwall is a legit top 15 dman in this league. Dekeyser most likely doesn't touch the numbers Kronwall has hit. In fact, I wonder if DDK can even score 40 in a year, nevermind average that for his whole career.

It's not really doom and gloom as it is realism, at least IMO

DDK isn't likely to ever become as offensively skilled as Kronwall, but he has been realgud defensively. Even with Kronwall the Wings have needed more scoring threats from the blueline...really since Rafalski retired and desperately since St. Nick hung up his skates. That's probably going to have to come from outside the organization(Green, Yandle, etc).

As far as replacing the center depth when Z & D call it quits, I don't think it's all that far fetched to envision a future with Larkin & Sheahan in the 1 & 2 spots. Both guys are young and solid defensively and there's still time for those guys to learn from Z & D. Perhaps they don't replace the points that #13 & #40 have posted in the past, but they can be surrounded by some real solid wingers to achieve a similar result.

I'm going to absolutely HATE seeing Z, D, & K's last games, but I see a whole lot of solid young nhlers in Detroit today and a whole lot of good stuff in Grand Rapids.

 

[TimoneX]

Brendan Smith's skating is and has always been overrated at an NHL level. He's a GOOD skater, not an elite Letang/Keith/Doughty/Subban level skater. DD is CLEARLY the best skating d-man on this current roster and there's really no debate. That's the problem with Smith IMO...all his natural talents were over-hyped. He was touted as an elite skater with offensive skill and a bit of a nasty side. He's shown a willingness to fight, but everything else he was touted to be hasn't manifested itself in the league.

That's why Smith is so frustrating. There's the talent there to be a solid offensive Dman, but he never puts it all together. He's somewhat better defensively now, but his offensive game is a shade of what it was. Time for both Detroit and Smith to move on.