Confirmed with Link: Dorion fired. Staios interim GM.

[Alf Silfversson]

Cappy should of been long gone, he runs the D.

He should have been gone long ago because he is part of DJ's staff, but are our 6 defensemen the problem or is it the whole team. I see a whole lot of forwards out of position. Points uncovered (forwards) and guys flying he zone (forwards). He's not good but he's not the problem. The guy running the staff is.

 

[Cosmix]

Ah yes, Sutter. I had forgotten about him.

I know you are not suggesting Sutter as the new HC; however, Sutter might be just the guy needed to quickly whip this team into shape to play a strong defensive game (strategically (system) and tactically (individual play)). Could be a good temporary move.

 

[Cosmix]

It'll be impossible to judge a new GM when they are named, purely based on their name. It'll have to play out over the next numerous months and years.

Pierre got 8 years. I'll give the new guy 2 until I praise or shit on him.

A new GM can be judged when he is named based on his qualifications including his past experience as an NHL GM and Coach.

 

[Cosmix]

Can we fire Bruce too?

Great idea!

 

[Big Muddy]

I was just kidding around.
You do ask a interesting question though.

Expressing my opinion is redundant at this point in the coach discussion but...
...Putting aside stability, newness of management, etc. I'd take an interim if available to instill defensive responsibilities that would benefit the permanent coach.

Yes, it's something I wonder about. I get that it would be better to hire a new GM first.

But, I wonder if an interim coach from outside of the organization is a solution and how often it's been done in the past. And, how successful have those instances been.

Claude Julien is an Ottawa guy. He's older and already had a long, successful career. Maybe he or someone would take the job knowing that he could be replaced after the new GM is hired, or even not be too upset about the position only lasting a few months ....?

It's always easier to think of the reasons not to do something. But I imagine the greatest achievements come from situations where there was a desire to get something done and to just proceed with whatever it was.

 

[bert]

He has at least some history of winning in pro hockey. DJ has none.

And yeah, none of those top 4 I listed are terrible. But our current top 4 is so much better, even with Chabot missing time. You could make a very good case that none of that Islanders top 4 would push out any of our top 4. It's not close.

As for Capuano being the problem? Well the biggest problem this team has, after the fact that they can't seem to play as five man units, is forwards bailing on their defensive duties. That has nothing to do with Capuano.

I can't believe you're making me defend Jack Capuano. LOL. But DJ has accomplished nothing in pro hockey. If you look at his time being in charge of the D in Toronto they were a mess as well. Although in his defense they were not a very good corps.

You are using blanket statements here which is fine. I am going to go right to what I have watched.

Specifically on the back end this team really struggles to break out, yeah before the personnel was the issue but now that is absolutely not the case. They have puck movers. Still horrible at coming out controlled.

More than any position the D core has lacked development. More than any position it has been the teams weakness.

D core deployment has been atrocious. He over plays players to the point where they regress or are too tired to contribute see Chabot. He played Chychrun 31 minutes in a game where it was the first leg of a back to back.

Inability to identify talent. How long does it take him to identify when a player is playing well and either inserting them into the line up or how he uses them.... He doesnt start playing guys more when they are playing well or get into a groove. Look at JBD he has been the only d man recently who has raised his level of play. Now he's the first one out.

They give up the blue line at an alarming rate. This teams D gaps are some of the worst in NHL hockey, its on the D coach to fix this.

Teams are built from the back end out and this team has the worst coached d core in hockey.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You are using blanket statements here which is fine. I am going to go right to what I have watched.

Specifically on the back end this team really struggles to break out, yeah before the personnel was the issue but now that is absolutely not the case. They have puck movers. Still horrible at coming out controlled.

More than any position the D core has lacked development. More than any position it has been the teams weakness.

D core deployment has been atrocious. He over plays players to the point where they regress or are too tired to contribute see Chabot. He played Chychrun 31 minutes in a game where it was the first leg of a back to back.

Inability to identify talent. How long does it take him to identify when a player is playing well and either inserting them into the line up or how he uses them.... He doesnt start playing guys more when they are playing well or get into a groove. Look at JBD he has been the only d man recently who has raised his level of play. Now he's the first one out.

They give up the blue line at an alarming rate. This teams D gaps are some of the worst in NHL hockey, its on the D coach to fix this.

Teams are built from the back end out and this team has the worst coached d core in hockey.

But if it's that bad, why wouldn't DJ have stepped in yet? It seems like Capuano's performance is essentially being endorsed by DJ if Cap is continuing to be allowed to make these calls. Override him or take away the responsibility altogether, you're the coach.

 

[Big Muddy]

Would they have fired Dorion if the NHL hadn't penalized them a 1st round pick for that Dadonov trade? Even a 2nd round pick and I think Dorion is still GM.

Is that because you think they would have waited until the season finished before replacing Dorion, or because you think they thought (or you thought) that Dorion was a good GM?

 

[Micklebot]

You are using blanket statements here which is fine. I am going to go right to what I have watched.

Specifically on the back end this team really struggles to break out, yeah before the personnel was the issue but now that is absolutely not the case. They have puck movers. Still horrible at coming out controlled.

More than any position the D core has lacked development. More than any position it has been the teams weakness.

D core deployment has been atrocious. He over plays players to the point where they regress or are too tired to contribute see Chabot. He played Chychrun 31 minutes in a game where it was the first leg of a back to back.

Inability to identify talent. How long does it take him to identify when a player is playing well and either inserting them into the line up or how he uses them.... He doesnt start playing guys more when they are playing well or get into a groove. Look at JBD he has been the only d man recently who has raised his level of play. Now he's the first one out.

They give up the blue line at an alarming rate. This teams D gaps are some of the worst in NHL hockey, its on the D coach to fix this.

Teams are built from the back end out and this team has the worst coached d core in hockey.

I think a lot of our struggles existing the zone are relating to the forwards positioning on our breakouts. Early in the year, I thought they were doing really well at supporting the d and we were breaking out much better, but it didn't seem to last.

Wrt playing guys too much, the Chychrun example happened in a game where Chabot, Zub, and Brannstrom were all out injured (not sure why but Mantiapolo missed pretty much the entire 2nd, and only played 3 shifts in the third), once Zub returned from injury he was down to 25 mins a night on the high end.

I really agree about giving up the blue line, but again, I think part of that (not all) is the forwards not providing enough back pressure, the result is often the opposition has a lot of speed going through the NZ making it much harder on the D to keep those tight gaps.

I want Capuano gone yesterday, but I think there's a lot more to our struggles than him.

 

[bert]

But if it's that bad, why wouldn't DJ have stepped in yet? It seems like Capuano's performance is essentially being endorsed by DJ if Cap is continuing to be allowed to make these calls. Override him or take away the responsibility altogether, you're the coach.

He should have I havent debated that. If anything and they arent going to replace DJ he needs to be self aware enough the D core needs a new voice. What I am debating is that Capuano is absolutely not an upgrade on DJ. I see where the responses are going now, everyone has their pitch forks and wants to blame everything on DJ. I think he needs to go, no debate I just dont want him replaced with the person that has been controlling the weakest part of this teams make up is the answer.

I think a lot of our struggles existing the zone are relating to the forwards positioning on our breakouts. Early in the year, I thought they were doing really well at supporting the d and we were breaking out much better, but it didn't seem to last.

Wrt playing guys too much, the Chychrun example happened in a game where Chabot, Zub, and Brannstrom were all out injured (not sure why but Mantiapolo missed pretty much the entire 2nd, and only played 3 shifts in the third), once Zub returned from injury he was down to 25 mins a night on the high end.

I really agree about giving up the blue line, but again, I think part of that (not all) is the forwards not providing enough back pressure, the result is often the opposition has a lot of speed going through the NZ making it much harder on the D to keep those tight gaps.

I want Capuano gone yesterday, but I think there's a lot more to our struggles than him.

I agree with that there are many broken parts to this team. Yes the gaps between the forwards and the D arent great but the D core cannot continue to give up the blue line the way they have over and over again.

Ok so you are dissagreeing with me you like his deployment? You dont think he plays players too much. Got it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He should have I havent debated that. If anything and they arent going to replace DJ he needs to be self aware enough the D core needs a new voice. What I am debating is that Capuano is absolutely not an upgrade on DJ. I see where the responses are going now, everyone has their pitch forks and wants to blame everything on DJ. I think he needs to go, no debate I just dont want him replaced with the person that has been controlling the weakest part of this teams make up is the answer.

Thanks for explaining your reasoning. I see what you mean and I did jump in and cherry pick one point a bit there.

 

[Big Muddy]

Is there another Martin St. Louis out there?

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with that there are many broken parts to this team. Yes the gaps between the forwards and the D arent great but the D core cannot continue to give up the blue line the way they have over and over again.

Ok so you are dissagreeing with me you like his deployment? You dont think he plays players too much. Got it.

I think that how much he plays guys is impacted by the roster for a given game, and when we have three callups on the backend, the other guys are going to play more. Sometimes special teams will dictate things too. There some nuance there is all.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Is there another Martin St. Louis out there?

Well we had our own Marty briefly... Martin Straka. Legendary Ottawa Senator.

He is GM and 70% owner of the team he used to play with.

I still have his jersey.

 

[bert]

I think that how much he plays guys is impacted by the roster for a given game, and when we have three callups on the backend, the other guys are going to play more. Sometimes special teams will dictate things too. There some nuance there is all.

How do you feel about Chabots development?

Is there another Martin St. Louis out there?

Patrick Roy is primed and ready to go. I think he would be very ideal for this group. He has experience with young players, and it will be his second go around of coaching. This often yields the best results.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

But if it's that bad, why wouldn't DJ have stepped in yet? It seems like Capuano's performance is essentially being endorsed by DJ if Cap is continuing to be allowed to make these calls. Override him or take away the responsibility altogether, you're the coach.

Bingo. If all these things are going wrong and DJ doesn't notice, or worse approves, then it's on him. The associate and assistant coaches take their marching orders from him.

Capuano is not good but he's had some success in the pro ranks (limited but still) away from DJ.

Dj has done nothing of note in pro hockey. He works well in junior because there is a wider gap in talent from team to team and over the short term you just need to get these young guys working hard, which is not a problem for DJ. In the NHL things are more nuanced and you have to manage the egos of players who are rich and have already made it against motivating them.

I don't want Capuano as even the interim but I firmly believe he'd do better than DJ at this point.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well we had our own Marty briefly... Martin Straka. Legendary Ottawa Senator.

He is GM and 70% owner of the team he used to play with.

I still have his jersey.

Czech Republic team - correct?

How do you feel about Chabots development?


Patrick Roy is primed and ready to go. I think he would be very ideal for this group. He has experience with young players, and it will be his second go around of coaching. This often yields the best results.

That's one. Worth a try I suppose?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

He should have I havent debated that. If anything and they arent going to replace DJ he needs to be self aware enough the D core needs a new voice. What I am debating is that Capuano is absolutely not an upgrade on DJ. I see where the responses are going now, everyone has their pitch forks and wants to blame everything on DJ. I think he needs to go, no debate I just dont want him replaced with the person that has been controlling the weakest part of this teams make up is the answer.


I agree with that there are many broken parts to this team. Yes the gaps between the forwards and the D arent great but the D core cannot continue to give up the blue line the way they have over and over again.

Ok so you are dissagreeing with me you like his deployment? You dont think he plays players too much. Got it.

I agree with the fact that our D do next nothing defensively in the neutral zone and at our blue line. Zub did in his first year (and was very good at it) and rarely does now. I think it's a game plan issue. Our coaching staff (led by DJ) seems to like to collapse and play passive. Avoid odd man rushes at all costs. That is a team issue.

I also wouldn't want to be an NHL defenseman and try to stand up modern forwards when 60% of the time my forwards are in no position to support.

It's all a mess and they all need to go.

I think the team has a better chance of being competitive under Capuano (or anybody else really) than DJ. We have to agree to disagree there.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Czech Republic team - correct?

Yup. Can't remember the specific team, but we used to joke at hockey about how he was the owner/GM/Player. I don't even know if that was all true at the same time but we used to laugh about it.

Straka is in my hall of fame of weird former Senator player obsessions alongside Karel Rachunek, Joe Corvo and Mike Hoffman.

They razz me cuz I still use some form of Straka's name as my email address and I'm hangin on to that golden oldie till I die or they take it away.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yup. Can't remember the specific team, but we used to joke at hockey about how he was the owner/GM/Player. I don't even know if that was all true at the same time but we used to laugh about it.

Straka is in my hall of fame of weird former Senator player obsessions alongside Karel Rachunek, Joe Corvo and Mike Hoffman.

They razz me cuz I still use some form of Straka's name as my email address and I'm hangin on to that golden oldie till I die or they take it away.

HC Škoda Plzeň

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

HC Škoda Plzeň

Ah yes that rings a bell!

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Is there another Martin St. Louis out there?

Daniel Alfredsson

 

[Big Muddy]

Daniel Alfredsson

I have wondered about that as well. They might be giving him some experience and time though. Alfie said that he had no definitive job description (not sure how long ago that was), but that gives me the impression they want to give him experience in a wide variety of areas.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Lol I honestly don't know sometimes.

there are strict emoji laws on HFSens...

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I have wondered about that as well. They might be giving him some experience and time though. Alfie said that he had no definitive job description (not sure how long ago that was), but that gives me the impression they want to give him experience in a wide variety of areas.

It sucks though because at so e point he'll get fired. I'd rather have him be in management/hockey ops and stay with the franchise long term.