Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[sxvnert]

Its truly sickening listening to Toronto media today: "Kyle did everything he could for this team!" "What more do you want him to do!"
"Kyle will find another job in minutes if they fire him! (as if this f***in matters)"

Thats the level of shilling leafs fans are up against.

 

[ShaneFalco]

To everyone who wants him gone:
Let me hear your voice, who do you want as the next GM? I love how everyone shouting that he needs to be gone, yet no one comes up with any alternatives.

Do it, please. I really wanna know who would be our saviour, please.

We don't have a team of executives, scouts, advisors, and we don't have frequent conversations with executives around the league.

 

[sunstersun]

Its truly sickening listening to Toronto media today: "Kyle did everything he could for this team!" "What more do you want him to do!"

Thats the level of shilling leafs fans are up against.

Our team is slow, unskilled and physically weak.

 

[Kanedogg]

Should have fired him when he traded a 1st for Foligno. How did this guy get this job anyways?

His grandfather was gm of Ssm and he's a 100% nepotism hire that got a break none of us ever would. He was a gm in his 20s.

He was hired under the pretense he's this smart analytics guy ahead of the curve. You'd expect if thats what he wants to stake himself on he'd have a degree from mit or Stanford etc. Nope lol Brock university. That's even with the massive head start he was gifted in life.

The ultimate "didn't deserve it" hire. Shanahan needs to be fired for such a disaster of a choice.

Oh btw that core that "we can and we will keep" guess what? Nylander and Matthews will want MORE money in 1 year.

 

[sxvnert]

His grandfather was gm of Ssm and he's a 100% nepotism hire that got a break none of us ever would. He was a gm in his 20s.

He was hired under the pretense he's this smart analytics guy ahead of the curve. You'd expect if thats what he wants to stake himself on he'd have a degree from mit or Stanford etc. Nope lol Brock university. That's even with the massive head start he was gifted in life.

The ultimate "didn't deserve it" hire. Shanahan needs to be fired for such a disaster of a choice.

Oh btw that core that "we can and we will keep" guess what? Nylander and Matthews will want MORE money in 1 year.

Maurice mentioned that his cousins/uncles are also big name coaches (or something along these lines)..in his presser before the series started.

 

[Sypher04]

If the Leafs bow out here, Dubas will be in high demand elsewhere, and would likely have options to take a job somewhere, where the core could appear to be capable of elevating their game.

I do believe this is true as well. I think Dubas lands on his feet if he’s not here, and finds some degree of success fairly quickly. He’s hitched his time in Toronto to this core, which is sadly appearing more and more to have been a mistake. I do respect the loyalty and faith he’s shown in these guys, but they either won’t or aren’t capable of repaying him for it

 

[Nooodles]

We don't have a team of executives, scouts, advisors, and we don't have frequent conversations with executives around the league.

So you just simply want him gone. That's it. Right?

 

[GoonieFace]

His grandfather was gm of Ssm and he's a 100% nepotism hire that got a break none of us ever would. He was a gm in his 20s.

He was hired under the pretense he's this smart analytics guy ahead of the curve. You'd expect if thats what he wants to stake himself on he'd have a degree from mit or Stanford etc. Nope lol Brock university. That's even with the massive head start he was gifted in life.
The ultimate "didn't deserve it" hire. Shanahan needs to be fired for such a disaster of a choice.

Oh btw that core that "we can and we will keep" guess what? Nylander and Matthews will want MORE money in 1 year.

Well said, same reason why Keefe is coaching in the NHL, they have built a cult and some on here love the Kool-Ade they are selling

 

[Sypher04]

Our team is slow, unskilled and physically weak.

Slow sure, not really sure I agree with the other two.

 

[Rude Dog]

Its truly sickening listening to Toronto media today: "Kyle did everything he could for this team!" "What more do you want him to do!"
"Kyle will find another job in minutes if they fire him! (as if this f***in matters)"

Thats the level of shilling leafs fans are up against.

They aren't wrong.

 

[IPS]

Its truly sickening listening to Toronto media today: "Kyle did everything he could for this team!" "What more do you want him to do!"
"Kyle will find another job in minutes if they fire him! (as if this f***in matters)"

Thats the level of shilling leafs fans are up against.

It's honestly f***ing mindblowing. But I really do wonder how Kyle feels about his boy Sheldon being a very prominent target of blame in all this (I don't wanna use the word scapegoat because Keefe doesn't deserve that word).

If MLSE wants to keep Dubas it's going to be entertaining asf to see how far they'll influence the media.

 

[Egghead1999]

Our team is slow, unskilled and physically weak.

not physically weak, it is "mental toughness" weak

 

[Rude Dog]

Understand one thing.. we can be upset at Dubas, or Keefe, or the players... I'm a fan of the Leafs, and the names don't mean much to me... just win, which it appears as though we won't. I think Dubas did everything he could, to bring in a supporting cast here, to win with. We can argue that he could have traded the core earlier, but that's not what I'm posting about.

If we make changes, this team will go through a period of being much less competitive than it currently is. It will take years to get back to the level we currently are at.... You don't trade away elite talent level players, and get back quality to compete with... and I fully appreciate these guys haven't been elite when needed most.

It will also be interesting once the season is over, what the problem with Matthews is. He clearly no longer has his dangerous shot. Without it... he's just a pretty good player... not elite, not an $11 mil player for certain. Does he need surgery AGAIN? The frequency of his issues has to be concerning. If he doesn't need surgery, and he's just lost his ability... well then, I guess we are done here...

There is a reason every other fan base has been on the fire Dubas and blow it up agenda. It's because they know the Leafs will be worse. Of course results speak for themselves, but based on talent alone there was no reason the Leafs shouldn't have been able to win in the past and now.

 

[Darch]

Why do people always want losing GMs and coaches fired? 1 team wins, simple as that. The Leafs are a great team, just have a hard time beating teams that collapse to the front of their net like the Habs did a couple years ago, and Florida is doing now.

 

[sunstersun]

Slow sure, not really sure I agree with the other two.

skilled players could pass and receive passes. meanwhile the leafs are struggling to make basic breakout passes without turning the puck over.

 

[IPS]

Why do people always want losing GMs and coaches fired? 1 team wins, simple as that. The Leafs are a great team, just have a hard time beating teams that collapse to the front of their net like the Habs did a couple years ago, and Florida is doing now.

In the Leafs case - the other team wins just a little too much come playoff time

 

[ToneDog]

Understand one thing.. we can be upset at Dubas, or Keefe, or the players... I'm a fan of the Leafs, and the names don't mean much to me... just win, which it appears as though we won't. I think Dubas did everything he could, to bring in a supporting cast here, to win with. We can argue that he could have traded the core earlier, but that's not what I'm posting about.

If we make changes, this team will go through a period of being much less competitive than it currently is. It will take years to get back to the level we currently are at.... You don't trade away elite talent level players, and get back quality to compete with... and I fully appreciate these guys haven't been elite when needed most.

It will also be interesting once the season is over, what the problem with Matthews is. He clearly no longer has his dangerous shot. Without it... he's just a pretty good player... not elite, not an $11 mil player for certain. Does he need surgery AGAIN? The frequency of his issues has to be concerning. If he doesn't need surgery, and he's just lost his ability... well then, I guess we are done here...

Not what Florida did with Hubie and Weager and a 1st and their coach and look at them now. Isn't 7 playoffs enough to say, this core can't get it done ?? Changes are needed.

 

[Darch]

skilled players could pass and receive passes. meanwhile the leafs are struggling to make basic breakout passes without turning the puck over.

They simply aren't set up properly to deal with the pressure applied. That's on the coaches to fix.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I got a feeling Spezza takes over and Dubie sticks around to help out on analytics .. just my guess .. they know what Matty wants now so they have likely told him we will make a decision after playoffs if we sign him or trade him .. probably told Matty if they win a Cup he will be signed .. if not then part of overall org decisions .. it will be a difficult call but 1 of Matty or Mitch will have to go so team can be built for playoff hockey

If Matty goes and Mitch stays, hard to see how this team will ever be built for playoff hockey.

I hate to say it, but we find ourselves on the verge of making our first round win utterly irrelevant. Which after 19 years is such a f***ing gut punch to the fanbase.

I said it last year about Florida, and to a lesser extent Edmonton, and I will say it now about us as well. Winning your previous series means absolutely nothing if you completely squander it and do nothing in the next round.

While technically there is the chance we come back somwhart in this series and save some embarrassment, the odds of us winning are very remote (less than 2% I believe statistically). Especially now missing our best goaltender

If they get swept and bow out without a real fight, as it seems they will, they deserve all the changes that come.

Moneypuck has us at 8.4% to win the series. I can see the logic behind that number but I'd put their chances at something closer to 4% off the top of my head. I'm not sure were missing our best goaltender though, I'm very happy with the way Sammy has played but I'm more than happy with the way Woll has played and I wouldn't dare to put a ceiling on him right now.

I very much agree with this. I’m not sure what more Dubas could have done, but I will say if we think there is a core problem that needs to be tweaked, or a coaching issue, those still ultimately reflect on Dubas’ decisions. I leave it to the powers that be to determine if that means a change in management is required or not. I can see merits to both making a move or staying the course. I’m definitely not thinking we need to make huge changes to the core, but I don’t think there’s any way we can just roll it back at this point either

I'm thinking the opposite. Dubas has done an excellent job building around this core. The D is 100% improved on what it was then he took over, adding McCabe ad the TDL was an amazing deal and he also added ROR, if the core can't be any better than they have been then it's pretty hard to argue that the core isn't the problem

On one hand it's on Dubas for betting on this core. On the other hand, walking into a talented forward group with Matthews, Marner and Nylander it would have seemed insane to not bet on these guys. But now, assuming they don't pull off a miracle comeback against FLA it seems clear that the core is the issue.

I have the same attitude that I did after we lost to MTL - I'm open to bringing Dubas back depending on what his plan is and if his plan is to roll everything back without major changes, then he's gone. Keefe and at least one core piece have to go IMO. I'd see if we can resign Matthews&Nylander first, and once that's done I'd trade Marner. Now I'm not saying give him away, I assume we're getting a lot back, like maybe 4 1st round picks or whatever but he's the one to go IMO and that's partly because he has 2 years left on his deal so you can get more for him. But also partly because I just can't have faith in this guy any more to win in the playoffs. Send him to some shitty team that needs to sell tickets, he can help do that for sure but in the playoffs you can't count on him so he should sill be worth a lot to some team, certainly worth more than he is to us.

 

[notbias]

We don't have a team of executives, scouts, advisors, and we don't have frequent conversations with executives around the league.

if you want him gone you should have a replacement in mind, if not, you don't want him gone because it makes the team better.

 

[Fogelhund]

Not what Florida did with Hubie and Weager and a 1st and their coach and look at them now. Isn't 7 playoffs enough to say, this core can't get it done ?? Changes are needed.

I'm not saying changes aren't needed... but I don't think Florida is a typical example that we should expect.... we should be aware, that in all probability we are going to get worse, and possibly much worse, before we get better again... and I'm ok with that.

 

[ToneDog]

Leafs are 12 and 16 under Keefe, 15 and 20 under Dubas and 19-28 under Shanny.

 

[NikF]

As an outsider. I know Sutter gets a lot of shit but... I'd look into him if I'm Toronto. With a good roster, he is a proven winner. Watched him closely for years in LA. He's not the antiquated mind people think he is, it's a cliche because he isn't the smoothest speaker, but he knows his stuff. I think he is the kind of "finisher" your roster needs and is capable of winning with. He didn't have that in Calgary to the same extent. Keefe could be your Terry Murray, the Kings needed a Sutter to get them over the hump with similar star quality as Toronto has now. Of course if he wants to leave his farm. Just my two cents.

 

[Fogelhund]

As an outsider. I know Sutter gets a lot of shit but... I'd look into him if I'm Toronto. With a good roster, he is a proven winner. Watched him closely for years in LA. He's not the antiquated mind people think he is, it's a cliche because he isn't the smoothest speaker, but he knows his stuff. I think he is the kind of "finisher" your roster needs and is capable of winning with. He didn't have that in Calgary to the same extent. Keefe could be your Terry Murray, the Kings needed a Sutter to get them over the hump with similar star quality as Toronto has now. Of course if he wants to leave his farm. Just my two cents.

Just no.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If Matty goes and Mitch stays, hard to see how this team will ever be built for playoff hockey.


Moneypuck has us at 8.4% to win the series. I can see the logic behind that number but I'd put their chances at something closer to 4% off the top of my head. I'm not sure were missing our best goaltender though, I'm very happy with the way Sammy has played but I'm more than happy with the way Woll has played and I wouldn't dare to put a ceiling on him right now.


I'm thinking the opposite. Dubas has done an excellent job building around this core. The D is 100% improved on what it was then he took over, adding McCabe ad the TDL was an amazing deal and he also added ROR, if the core can't be any better than they have been then it's pretty hard to argue that the core isn't the problem

On one hand it's on Dubas for betting on this core. On the other hand, walking into a talented forward group with Matthews, Marner and Nylander it would have seemed insane to not bet on these guys. But now, assuming they don't pull off a miracle comeback against FLA it seems clear that the core is the issue.

I have the same attitude that I did after we lost to MTL - I'm open to bringing Dubas back depending on what his plan is and if his plan is to roll everything back without major changes, then he's gone. Keefe and at least one core piece have to go IMO. I'd see if we can resign Matthews&Nylander first, and once that's done I'd trade Marner. Now I'm not saying give him away, I assume we're getting a lot back, like maybe 4 1st round picks or whatever but he's the one to go IMO and that's partly because he has 2 years left on his deal so you can get more for him. But also partly because I just can't have faith in this guy any more to win in the playoffs. Send him to some shitty team that needs to sell tickets, he can help do that for sure but in the playoffs you can't count on him so he should sill be worth a lot to some team, certainly worth more than he is to us.

Of course it becomes an issue of what you can get for either .. a solid regular season contributor would really help Ottawa say make da playoffs .. if you can get Jakob C, Drake Batherson and a 1st and 2nd rounder 2024 for Mitch then you save some CAP hit and replace Mitch with a faster RW and a potential #1 dman .. Ottawa needs a points producer and would be thrilled to make playoffs .. they have 2 D already who can be a #1 and they are full of prospects .. deals like that which work for both sides can be done .. in this case Matty resigns with team before july 1st ..