Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[Kanedogg]

Well said, same reason why Keefe is coaching in the NHL, they have built a cult and some on here love the Kool-Ade they are selling

Yeah Keefe is another Dallas Eakins who probably interviews really well. I recall reading an article about how much Keefe is a fan of Barcelona possession football and wanted to track more variables.

These are the kind of guys that rashly want to move hot dog eating kessels with Ironman streaks and nazem Kadris because he's on mitch marner made-up list of being lazy.

Where is the meritocracy in leafs management?

 

[Fogelhund]

If your best players, aren't your best players when it counts the most, you aren't going to win. This has been the narrative since they've been here. Truly elite players, raise the level of their games... they haven't.

Again... we can be mad at the coaching, the management... and sure, they've made their bets on this core, which has failed... and they deserve what is likely coming.. but ultimately, what is a very talented collection of players, have failed to raise their games when needed. We can talk about culture, but they've brought in guys like RoR... I don't disagree that management changes are coming, but this is a failure with the players, more than anything else. The players failed the team, they've failed the faith fans, and management have shown in them. Winning, and the drive to win, isn't a culture that is teachable... either you have it, or you don't... and it seems, our key guys don't.

 

[Sypher04]

If Matty goes and Mitch stays, hard to see how this team will ever be built for playoff hockey.


Moneypuck has us at 8.4% to win the series. I can see the logic behind that number but I'd put their chances at something closer to 4% off the top of my head. I'm not sure were missing our best goaltender though, I'm very happy with the way Sammy has played but I'm more than happy with the way Woll has played and I wouldn't dare to put a ceiling on him right now.


I'm thinking the opposite. Dubas has done an excellent job building around this core. The D is 100% improved on what it was then he took over, adding McCabe ad the TDL was an amazing deal and he also added ROR, if the core can't be any better than they have been then it's pretty hard to argue that the core isn't the problem

On one hand it's on Dubas for betting on this core. On the other hand, walking into a talented forward group with Matthews, Marner and Nylander it would have seemed insane to not bet on these guys. But now, assuming they don't pull off a miracle comeback against FLA it seems clear that the core is the issue.

I have the same attitude that I did after we lost to MTL - I'm open to bringing Dubas back depending on what his plan is and if his plan is to roll everything back without major changes, then he's gone. Keefe and at least one core piece have to go IMO. I'd see if we can resign Matthews&Nylander first, and once that's done I'd trade Marner. Now I'm not saying give him away, I assume we're getting a lot back, like maybe 4 1st round picks or whatever but he's the one to go IMO and that's partly because he has 2 years left on his deal so you can get more for him. But also partly because I just can't have faith in this guy any more to win in the playoffs. Send him to some shitty team that needs to sell tickets, he can help do that for sure but in the playoffs you can't count on him so he should sill be worth a lot to some team, certainly worth more than he is to us.

My comment should have said “not definitely”, as opposed to “definitely not”. I think there is a definitely argument for sizable changes in the core. I’m just not certain changing a piece or two max couldn’t make the difference we need either.

In many ways I’d hate to see either Marner or Matthews go, but everything that we love about these guys has just not translated to the playoffs and I think if Matthews isn’t nursing a serious injury with his hand or wrist we need to be legitimately concerned about where the hell his shot has gone. And if it is injured yet again, that’s concerning as well

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Wait too much fear and "what if's" in this thread. Dubas is not awful, but not the messiah either. Holy smokes.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Not what Florida did with Hubie and Weager and a 1st and their coach and look at them now. Isn't 7 playoffs enough to say, this core can't get it done ?? Changes are needed.

Probably not. We should run it back one more time just to be sure. I'd like to see us fanny around with minimum wage bottom 6 players and then gamble on a couple of goalies that have been shit for the past few years.

 

[nuck]

From the core



False, insiders have said that, but our fans say he is useless and won't get another job, I will side with our fans as they are more knowledgable than people with direct knowledge inside the league.

Do you really think that other team presidents and ownership groups are speaking to these insiders about how they covet Kyle Dubas? Its just speculation by people who want to be listened to. Saying that KD won't get another gig is silly though as he is fully trained up except in the areas of coach and goalie evaluation and all he has to do is not hire Keefe again and don't trade for a broken #1 goalie.

I doubt he is perceived as a star that other clubs will be lining up for but I can't see him being out of work very long unless he has a short list of organizations he would consider.

 

[Fogelhund]

Wait too much fear and "what if's" in this thread. Dubas is not awful, but not the messiah either. Holy smokes.

Personally, I think he's done a great job, and been let down by the players. But, I'm also a realist, and realize that this often falls on the GM and coaches laps, before the players. Perhaps those saying his faith in the players, is what sees him somewhere else next year, are right... who knows.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Honestly I don't blame Dubas at all. The team is legit, he can't play the games for us or coach. So it's on the players or the coach, but this team on paper is incredible and he gave us the tools. We addressed the D, picked up a warrior in O'Rielly, these pick ups should have sent us over the edge, but instead either the players didn't come thru (Lafferty has more goals in the 2nd round than the core 4 combined) or Keefe can't get the full potential out of this club.

Regardless, i just don't blame Dubas, he did the best he could, and it was great, the guys just choose not to show up and will the team to win, they are, proven after all this time, a bunch of losers. And to find that truth out you need to try multiple times to see who they are, and they keep telling us to our face, they are a bunch of losers, not winners who rise up to the occasion. So its time to get some winners and I still believe Dubas is the man for that job, i think even he's seen enough.

We keep calling a spade a diamond, but doesn't matter what we call it, a spades a spade and the Leafs are a bunch of losers without that extra gear and will to win come playoff time.

 

[ToneDog]

Wait too much fear and "what if's" in this thread. Dubas is not awful, but not the messiah either. Holy smokes.

His disciples disagree.

 

[ACC1224]

His disciples disagree.

We haven't seen the Head Apostle all day which has been nice.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I would like Dubas to stay because I think he's a better option than the alternatives out there.

I don't know if he will be able to fire Keefe though, which is unfortunately one of many difficult decisions that will have to be made soon.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Dubas got handed what should have been a dynasty, created a giant mess around the core structure. Spends every year making ticky tack moves to try and rectify his giant mistake and fans marvel at his creativity as he smears around the mess he made in his pants at the outset.

 

[Twine Tickler]

it's tough.

It's really about how Kyle see's the team going forward. I have been a huge supporter of Kyle throughout his tenure in our organization. I think he innovative, progressive, and has a nose for talent. He is one of the brightest minds in Hockey IMO. But should this core fail to get out of this 2nd round, especially in the capacity it is trending. I really don't know how you could bring back this core group, and coach. If Kyle is not wiling to do that, I think we need to move on.

That said, If he is prepared to do that, I think he is the right man or the job still. I honestly can even handle if he brings Sheldon back. But the core needs to be changed. Not retooled, rebuilt.

This team may have shown moments of being different, but the core has once again failed to step up when the dial is turned up. This tiger is not going to change it's stripes.

Again, barring an unforeseen, unthinkable, and almost impossible comeback, I am officially out on this core group. Nothing personal, it's just no longer the fit. Liquidate the assets, and start from scratch. It will be an unfortunate end to this era, but it is just business.

If Kyle is not prepared to do that, I unfortunately will have to say he is not the right man for the job any more. Which is a shame, because he has an eye for talent, and I genuinely think he would be a great GM for a rebuilding club.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I hope Dubas goes to Pittsburgh and wins 3 cups if the Leafs are dumb enough to let him go.

Maybe with Pittsburgh’s AHL team he could do it, if they let him stock up on expensive vets.

 

[notbias]

Probably not. We should run it back one more time just to be sure. I'd like to see us fanny around with minimum wage bottom 6 players and then gamble on a couple of goalies that have been shit for the past few years.

You can watch Edmonton after our series for this too if you want

 

[All Mod Cons]

We haven't seen the Head Apostle all day which has been nice.

I wonder if he is actually Kyle?

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

It's sad but I can just repost all my posts from the past off-season in terms of what is wrong with this franchise. But some really wanted this rinse and repeat.

 

[LeafGrief]

I think Dubas will have learned the lesson about leadership needing to come from the core this season, but this is one of those, "winning culture" moments.

 

[Wiseguys]

I keep saying the one thing that's stopping the Leafs from progressing is the Taveras contract. They are stuck with it for the next 2 seasons at 11. Mil. with a NMC, I believe. It doesn't matter who steps in as the next GM they are not going to do any better to improve the team, its just too much of a burden on the salary cap. You can trade who ever you want its not happening, as long as Taveras is in the lineup, he's slow as it is and getting slower. I really didn't understand at the time of signing Taveras. At best he had average speed, game has gotten quicker, and the new players coming in are faster.
Good luck Leafs. I've invested 56 years since the last cup and I'm on the verge of hanging up my jock. Enough

 

[ToneDog]

I keep saying the one thing that's stopping the Leafs from progressing is the Taveras contract. They are stuck with it for the next 2 seasons at 11. Mil. with a NMC, I believe. It doesn't matter who steps in as the next GM they are not going to do any better to improve the team, its just too much of a burden on the salary cap. You can trade who ever you want its not happening, as long as Taveras is in the lineup, he's slow as it is and getting slower. I really didn't understand at the time of signing Taveras. At best he had average speed, game has gotten quicker, and the new players coming in are faster.
Good luck Leafs. I've invested 56 years since the last cup and I'm on the verge of hanging up my jock. Enough

Should have won a cup or two by now. They missed the Tavares window. His last two years are going to be painful to watch.

 

[centipede2233]

I’m not understanding the few that post that dubas has done a good job. He had campbell and mrazek last year, both injury prone, and what does he do in the off season? Goes out and gets a more injury prone goalie in Matt Murray at a higher caphit…you can’t make this stuff up…

 

[ACC1224]

I wonder if he is actually Kyle?

I doubt it. Dubas for his faults would have some amount of hockey knowledge.

 

[Jozay]

I doubt Dubas will even want to come back.

I doubt he wants to be the one to fire Keefe, doubt he wants to be the one to move off of one these core guys, doubt he wants to be the one to deal with Matthews if he doesnt want to re-sign.

Easiest path for him is to just go somewhere with a clean slate.

 

[GQS]

I’m not understanding the few that post that dubas has done a good job. He had campbell and mrazek last year, both injury prone, and what does he do in the off season? Goes out and gets a more injury prone goalie in Matt Murray at a higher caphit…you can’t make this stuff up…

Well that's why Dubas also signed Samsonov so that the Leafs would have two starters to work with. Murray wasn't the worst risk to take when you gave up nothing and got a couple of picks for him and his contract ends at the end of next season. Sucks that he can't stay healthy but that was the risk in getting him.

Goalies are unpredicatable when we've seen Ullmark, Vasi and Hellebuyck who are some of the league's best goalies all underperform in the playoffs and their teams are out in the 1st round as a result. If not Samsonov and Murray then who else could Dubas have signed that would be much better and not cost too much?

 

[Gary Nylund]

My comment should have said “not definitely”, as opposed to “definitely not”. I think there is a definitely argument for sizable changes in the core. I’m just not certain changing a piece or two max couldn’t make the difference we need either.

In many ways I’d hate to see either Marner or Matthews go, but everything that we love about these guys has just not translated to the playoffs and I think if Matthews isn’t nursing a serious injury with his hand or wrist we need to be legitimately concerned about where the hell his shot has gone. And if it is injured yet again, that’s concerning as well

A piece or two sure, they have to be major pieces though. Marner and Keefe could be enough.

Gotta watch overdrive now LOL, this should be good.