Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[57 Years No Cup]

Probably not. We should run it back one more time just to be sure. I'd like to see us fanny around with minimum wage bottom 6 players and then gamble on a couple of goalies that have been shit for the past few years.

 

[notbias]

Hit me up then when Dubas' core makes the finals. Until then none of this matters. You don't get to hand pick another team's sweep one year yet ignore them in the finals the previous years.

Our fanbase would have been calling for Sakic's head... don't even think this can be debated.

The goalposts just seem to move so much depending on the GM.

 

[Ciao]

This is what... year 7 for the Leafs? Sakic was in closer to day 1 of the rebuild. They had shown far greater progress than the Leafs have. But had they lost to St Louis last year they'd deservingly be a laughing stock as well


Winning is all that matters but you don't win cups over night.

But when it comes to Dubas keeping his job progress is what we're asking for no? This team has shown none of that. I'm not sure what we're arguing about now

It's year five for Dubas.

At that point Sakic had lost in the first round, missed the playoffs three times, and lost in the first round again.

It's not a direct comparison, of course, but just one example that building a winner does take time.

I think the better example is John Wooden with the UCLA men's basketball team. One of the most successful college basketball coaches ever, but it sure was a long time coming.

 

[myleafs]

Honestly I don't blame Dubas at all. The team is legit, he can't play the games for us or coach. So it's on the players or the coach, but this team on paper is incredible and he gave us the tools. We addressed the D, picked up a warrior in O'Rielly, these pick ups should have sent us over the edge, but instead either the players didn't come thru (Lafferty has more goals in the 2nd round than the core 4 combined) or Keefe can't get the full potential out of this club.

Regardless, i just don't blame Dubas, he did the best he could, and it was great, the guys just choose not to show up and will the team to win, they are, proven after all this time, a bunch of losers. And to find that truth out you need to try multiple times to see who they are, and they keep telling us to our face, they are a bunch of losers, not winners who rise up to the occasion. So its time to get some winners and I still believe Dubas is the man for that job, i think even he's seen enough.

We keep calling a spade a diamond, but doesn't matter what we call it, a spades a spade and the Leafs are a bunch of losers without that extra gear and will to win come playoff time.

Dubas gets zero blame? Wow.....like wow. The buck doesnt stop here apparently. I want that job where I am not responsible for any of the decisions I made that led to defeat.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I hope he goes elsewhere and ruins a different team. Good riddance to the most overhyped GM in NHL history.

Seriously, has any NHL executive ever come in with more hype based on a non-existent track record? And then proceeded to win nothing?

Stevie Y, Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky Joe Nieuwendyk, Ron Francis, Trevor Linden, Craig Mctavish, Kevin Lowe, and the list can go on.
If your best players are not your best players then you are going to lose in the playoffs. This is not Dubas's fault. It is as simple as that.

Dubas gets zero blame? Wow.....like wow. The buck doesnt stop here apparently. I want that job where I am not responsible for any of the decisions I made that led to defeat.

Run for the Liberals in the next federal election.

 

[JKG33]

Our fanbase would have been calling for Sakic's head... don't even think this can be debated.

The goalposts just seem to move so much depending on the GM.

You mean to tell me Yzerman and Sakic, two legends of the sport, who won everything as a player and leaders on their teams, shouldn't get a longer leash than some spreadsheet jockey who's accomplished nothing of note in his short career?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Personally, I think he's done a great job, and been let down by the players. But, I'm also a realist, and realize that this often falls on the GM and coaches laps, before the players. Perhaps those saying his faith in the players, is what sees him somewhere else next year, are right... who knows.

He. Paid. The. Players. He. Doubled. Down. On. The. Core.

Yes, Dubas did that. Fire him, now.

 

[notbias]

You mean to tell me Yzerman and Sakic, two legends of the sport, who won everything as a player and leaders on their teams, shouldn't get a longer leash than some spreadsheet jockey who's accomplished nothing of note in his short career?

What did they win as a GM?

Our GM won something at other levels.

Are we pretending that a good hockey player will translate into a good GM? Results (sometimes)!

 

[myleafs]

I keep saying the one thing that's stopping the Leafs from progressing is the Taveras contract. They are stuck with it for the next 2 seasons at 11. Mil. with a NMC, I believe. It doesn't matter who steps in as the next GM they are not going to do any better to improve the team, its just too much of a burden on the salary cap. You can trade who ever you want its not happening, as long as Taveras is in the lineup, he's slow as it is and getting slower. I really didn't understand at the time of signing Taveras. At best he had average speed, game has gotten quicker, and the new players coming in are faster.
Good luck Leafs. I've invested 56 years since the last cup and I'm on the verge of hanging up my jock. Enough

All of this is fine and dandy and I would agreee somewhat but....3 gms in....zero goals from Mtthews, marner, Nylander,

 

[JKG33]

It's year five for Dubas.

At that point Sakic had lost in the first round, missed the playoffs three times, and lost in the first round again.

It's not a direct comparison, of course, but just one example that building a winner does take time.

I think the better example is John Wooden with the UCLA men's basketball team. One of the most successful college basketball coaches ever, but it sure was a long time coming.

Sakic was also in the rebuild from closer to day 1. Dubas had his core assembled for him, overpaid the group, and did nothing when it was obvious they didn't have what it takes.

Stevie Y, Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky Joe Nieuwendyk, Ron Francis, Trevor Linden, Craig Mctavish, Kevin Lowe, and the list can go on.
If your best players are not your best players then you are going to lose in the playoffs. This is not Dubas's fault. It is as simple as that.


Run for the Liberals in the next federal election.

And all of those guys had legitimate hockey resumes prior to becoming GMs

What did they win as a GM?

Our GM won something at other levels.

Are we pretending that a good hockey player will translate into a good GM? Results (sometimes)!

What the hell did Dubas win?

 

[myleafs]

Stevie Y, Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky Joe Nieuwendyk, Ron Francis, Trevor Linden, Craig Mctavish, Kevin Lowe, and the list can go on.
If your best players are not your best players then you are going to lose in the playoffs. This is not Dubas's fault. It is as simple as that.


Run for the Liberals in the next federal election.

Yea because the conservatives are so much better

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I doubt Dubas will even want to come back.

I doubt he wants to be the one to fire Keefe, doubt he wants to be the one to move off of one these core guys, doubt he wants to be the one to deal with Matthews if he doesnt want to re-sign.

Easiest path for him is to just go somewhere with a clean slate.

So now he'll have to stand at the plate and actually get a hit instead of being the pinch runner who started on third base?

 

[eddieO]

What did they win as a GM?

Our GM won something at other levels.

Are we pretending that a good hockey player will translate into a good GM? Results (sometimes)!

Do yourself a favour and take a peek at the list of names who also won the AHL title. Tell me how valuable that award is at predicting "GM quality" after you see those names.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Yea because the conservatives are so much better

I don't think the conservatives win the next election so its safer to be a Liberal.

 

[notbias]

Do yourself a favour and take a peek at the list of names who also won the AHL title. Tell me how valuable that award is at predicting "GM quality" after you see those names.

I am assuming on par with "was a good player", which was the argument

 

[JKG33]

Do yourself a favour and take a peek at the list of names who also won the AHL title. Tell me how valuable that award is at predicting "GM quality" after you see those names.

You mean winning a title with a team primarily consisting of players acquired by your boss isn't an accomplishment???

 

[Ciao]

You mean to tell me Yzerman and Sakic, two legends of the sport, who won everything as a player and leaders on their teams, shouldn't get a longer leash than some spreadsheet jockey who's accomplished nothing of note in his short career?

Being a good player doesn't make you a good coach or manager, and vice versa.

What was Scotty Bowman's playing career like? It was non-existent due to injury, just like Paul Maurice and Kyle Dubas.

Was Wayne Gretzky a good coach? Probably not.

Yzerman and Sakic are terrific managers, but it's not because they were also great players.

 

[JKG33]

Being a good player doesn't make you a good coach or manager, and vice versa.

What was Scotty Bowman's playing career like? It was non-existent due to injury, just like Paul Maurice and Kyle Dubas.

Was Wayne Gretzky a good coach? Probably not.

Yzerman and Sakic are terrific managers, but it's not because they were also great players.

Bowman was a coach for 10 years before his first NHL job. Dubas had what... 6? If anything Bowman is the exception that proves the rule

Being a revered leader, winner, and smart player indicates success. Dubas has shown nothing to say he deserved an NHL job.

 

[HolyCrap]

You mean to tell me Yzerman and Sakic, two legends of the sport, who won everything as a player and leaders on their teams, shouldn't get a longer leash than some spreadsheet jockey who's accomplished nothing of note in his short career?

Pretty sure you’re arguing with a kid. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. Lol.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Culture isn't something you can trade for at the trade deadline. Culture is set by management, and flows down from there. Our culture is one of managers caring more about immediate media and fan perception rather than long-term success, zero accountability for flaws in decision-making, a waffling vision for the team's playstyle (all skill and speed, now slow and fake gritty), and press conferences full of empty words. For all their flaws, Lamoriello and Babcock at least realized the power of true culture, not burning first round picks in pursuit of its ghost.

It's much worse than that. MLSE is owned by two large media corporations that care more about ESG and DEI scores than winning. I'm treading dangerously close to politics here, so I'll stop there.

 

[sunstersun]

It's much worse than that. MLSE is owned by two large media corporations that care more about ESG and DEI scores than winning. I'm treading dangerously close to politics here, so I'll stop there.

Ya we should care about banning books and injecting bleach instead.

 

[JKG33]

Pretty sure you’re arguing with a kid. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. Lol.

His username sure is ironic

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Ya we should care about banning books and injecting bleach instead.

How about injecting bleach into the "banned books"?

His username sure is ironic

Don't ya think?

 

[SprDaVE]

Dude are you a Kyle Dubas fan or a Leafs fan?

Are you the one coming up with the criteria of what is and isn't a Leafs fan?

I'm a fan of the Leafs and I'm a fan of what Dubas has done. What is wrong with that?

 

[SprDaVE]

So if Dubas is out, you want Pittsburgh to win the Cup and not the Leafs....

Um, ok?

I think they would win one before us, again, but I hope the Leafs can find a GM that can put together a team that can win in Toronto.