Does dubas remain GM if the leafs get bounced by Florida?

[Ciao]

The Leafs are done for this season, and I think the most likely outcome is that Keefe is gone. It won't surprise me if Dubas is fired too, and possibly Shanahan.

Not that logic has much to do with this, but Leafs have just had their best season in the past 19 years. They finished fourth in a 32-team league in the regular-season, and among the top eight teams in the playoffs. Naturally, the first thing that should come to mind is firing the coach and managers and trading the players.

I think they will find it a lot easier to fire coaches and managers than to get rid of the players.

I do look at the rather long trajectory of some other successful franchises, and I have enjoyed the relative stability that Leafs' ownership has afforded this management group. I think that sure beats the unstable "angry-owner" eras that we've seen in the past, but it won't surprise me if the ownership group like the fans are also at the end of their rope.

I'm pretty sure the coaches and managers – including Shanahan – will catch on elsewhere soon enough, if they want to continue working in similar positions. However, the current series with Florida is not helping the career prospects of any of them.

 

[4thline]

If your best players, aren't your best players when it counts the most, you aren't going to win. This has been the narrative since they've been here. Truly elite players, raise the level of their games... they haven't.

Again... we can be mad at the coaching, the management... and sure, they've made their bets on this core, which has failed... and they deserve what is likely coming.. but ultimately, what is a very talented collection of players, have failed to raise their games when needed. We can talk about culture, but they've brought in guys like RoR... I don't disagree that management changes are coming, but this is a failure with the players, more than anything else. The players failed the team, they've failed the faith fans, and management have shown in them. Winning, and the drive to win, isn't a culture that is teachable... either you have it, or you don't... and it seems, our key guys don't.

Sums it up well.

 

[Ciao]

I keep saying the one thing that's stopping the Leafs from progressing is the Taveras contract. They are stuck with it for the next 2 seasons at 11. Mil. with a NMC, I believe. It doesn't matter who steps in as the next GM they are not going to do any better to improve the team, its just too much of a burden on the salary cap. You can trade who ever you want its not happening, as long as Taveras is in the lineup, he's slow as it is and getting slower. I really didn't understand at the time of signing Taveras. At best he had average speed, game has gotten quicker, and the new players coming in are faster.
Good luck Leafs. I've invested 56 years since the last cup and I'm on the verge of hanging up my jock. Enough

I think the Leafs' lack of playoff success has to do with a lot more than just John Tavares.

Tavares was injured in game one of the playoff against Montréal, and he can hardly be faulted for that loss.

Tavares has good hands and is still scores many important goals, including the series-clinching overtime gall against Tampa.

I think it's most likely that blame will fall mostly on the coaching staff and the Leafs' style of play more than anything else.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

Again... we can be mad at the coaching, the management... and sure, they've made their bets on this core, which has failed... and they deserve what is likely coming.. but ultimately, what is a very talented collection of players, have failed to raise their games when needed. We can talk about culture, but they've brought in guys like RoR... I don't disagree that management changes are coming, but this is a failure with the players, more than anything else. The players failed the team, they've failed the faith fans, and management have shown in them. Winning, and the drive to win, isn't a culture that is teachable... either you have it, or you don't... and it seems, our key guys don't.

Culture isn't something you can trade for at the trade deadline. Culture is set by management, and flows down from there. Our culture is one of managers caring more about immediate media and fan perception rather than long-term success, zero accountability for flaws in decision-making, a waffling vision for the team's playstyle (all skill and speed, now slow and fake gritty), and press conferences full of empty words. For all their flaws, Lamoriello and Babcock at least realized the power of true culture, not burning first round picks in pursuit of its ghost.

 

[centipede2233]

Well that's why Dubas also signed Samsonov so that the Leafs would have two starters to work with. Murray wasn't the worst risk to take when you gave up nothing and got a couple of picks for him and his contract ends at the end of next season. Sucks that he can't stay healthy but that was the risk in getting him.

Goalies are unpredicatable when we've seen Ullmark, Vasi and Hellebuyck who are some of the league's best goalies all underperform in the playoffs and their teams are out in the 1st round as a result. If not Samsonov and Murray then who else could Dubas have signed that would be much better and not cost too much?

Dubas gave up 4.7 million in cap space for Murray, a goalie who declined health and performance wise. It shouldn’t have been a shock to see this outcome.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think the Leafs' lack of playoff success has to do with a lot more than just John Tavares.

Tavares was injured in game one of the playoff against Montréal, and he can hardly be faulted for that loss.

Tavares has good hands and is still scores many important goals, including the series-clinching overtime gall against Tampa.

I think it's most likely that blame will fall mostly on the coaching staff and the Leafs' style of play more than anything else.

Nah... I think this is on the players. We've been close in every game, but our Core four haven't scored a goal. Had they'd showed up, we'd probably be 3-0.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

If dubas is gone and Shanny stays, who becomes GM?
What about Laurence Gilman? Other Choices?

 

[JKG33]

I hope Dubas goes to Pittsburgh and wins 3 cups if the Leafs are dumb enough to let him go.

Whatever happens, I hope everyone gets a GM they really want. Not sure who that person is. Maybe Marky Mark Hunter can try his shot?

I hope he goes elsewhere and ruins a different team. Good riddance to the most overhyped GM in NHL history.

Seriously, has any NHL executive ever come in with more hype based on a non-existent track record? And then proceeded to win nothing?

 

[notbias]

I hope he goes elsewhere and ruins a different team. Good riddance to the most overhyped GM in NHL history.

Seriously, has any NHL executive ever come in with more hype based on a non-existent track record? And then proceeded to win nothing?

Stevie Y? Considered the best GM by a lot and he's never won.

 

[JKG33]

Stevie Y? Considered the best GM by a lot and he's never won.

He literally built most of the cup winning Lightning, and went to the finals with them...

 

[notbias]

He literally built most of the cup winning Lightning, and went to the finals with them...

But never won... what round is considered winning? I always thought it was the finals.

 

[JKG33]

But never won... what round is considered winning? I always thought it was the finals.

He put 90% of the core together that won the Cup, and said f*** it I'm out. Either way he did a helluva lot more than Dubas, and had a legitimate hockey resume before becoming a GM

Either you're trolling or you really are that dense. Either way no point in continuing this convo

 

[notbias]

He put 90% of the core together that won the Cup, and said f*** it I'm out. Either way he did a helluva lot more than Dubas, and had a legitimate hockey resume before becoming a GM

Either you're trolling or you really are that dense. Either way no point in continuing this convo

His core got swept... JBB came in and fixed his team.

 

[JKG33]

His core got swept... JBB came in and fixed his team.

His core also went to the finals

 

[Ciao]

I hope he goes elsewhere and ruins a different team. Good riddance to the most overhyped GM in NHL history.

Seriously, has any NHL executive ever come in with more hype based on a non-existent track record? And then proceeded to win nothing?

Maybe Joe Sakic?

In his first five years in charge of the Av's they lost in the first round, missed the playoffs three years in a row, and lost in the first round again.

Mind you, in years 6, 7 and 8 they lost in the second round three times in a row, and then in year 9 won the Stanley Cup.

In year 10 -- this year -- they lost in the first round again.

If the Leafs were to follow the Avalanche trajectory that wouldn't be so bad, but they haven't reached year 9 yet.

Mind you, if the Avalanche had bailed on their management team after eight years without success, they might not have won the Cup in their ninth year either.

In their case, patience was a virtue.

 

[notbias]

His core also went to the finals

So winning something is what round? this is all I want to know.

 

[Dave92]

Oddly enough out of all the heads that deserve to roll. Dubas' would be near the bottom for me. But only if he fires Keefe and guts the core.

And I absolutely hated him a couple years ago. But he's shown more heart than Marner these playoffs.

 

[Gabriel426]

The only fault Dubas had is betting on the wrong horses, which literally all GMs would had done if they are in Dubas’s position.

The top guys need to be the top players in the series and sofar they had only done it once. That’s why we are done 3-0 in the series bc they couldn’t score and dominate. Playing well and dominating are two different things. If anyone of AM, MM and JT dominated in the series, we would not be down 3-0. The fact that in a must win game they all collectively didn’t show up is really concerning bc it is not the first time it happened.

I really believe that if they are playing agains the Bruins, they won’t be down 3-0, it might even be 2–1 for us .

Mentally the top guys are not there where they should be and Keefe and the coaching staff probably never thought they will be playing with the Panthers and never made any plans.

 

[JKG33]

So winning something is what round? this is all I want to know.

I would say ECF is acceptable, SCF is good.

Winning 4 games instead of 3 is barely even progress

 

[notbias]

I would say ECF is acceptable, SCF is good.

Winning 4 games instead of 3 is barely even progress

and getting swept the year after is? Good? Bad?

You personally think failure is still good enough, I say Cup, or who cares every year... what does winning 8 games matter? Seems like a loser mentality.

 

[JKG33]

Maybe Joe Sakic?

In his first five years in charge of the Av's they lost in the first round, missed the playoffs three years in a row, and lost in the first round again.

Mind you, in years 6, 7 and 8 they lost in the second round three times in a row, and then in year 9 won the Stanley Cup.

In year 10 -- this year -- they lost in the first round again.

If the Leafs were to follow the Avalanche trajectory that wouldn't be so bad, but they haven't reached year 9 yet.

Mind you, if the Avalanche had bailed on their management team after eight years without success, they might not have won the Cup in their ninth year either.

In their case, patience was a virtue.

This is what... year 7 for the Leafs? Sakic was in closer to day 1 of the rebuild. They had shown far greater progress than the Leafs have. But had they lost to St Louis last year they'd deservingly be a laughing stock as well

and getting swept the year after is? Good? Bad?

You personally think failure is still good enough, I say Cup, or who cares every year... what does winning 8 games matter? Seems like a loser mentality.

Winning is all that matters but you don't win cups over night.

But when it comes to Dubas keeping his job progress is what we're asking for no? This team has shown none of that. I'm not sure what we're arguing about now

 

[Lemontree]

He put 90% of the core together that won the Cup, and said f*** it I'm out. Either way he did a helluva lot more than Dubas, and had a legitimate hockey resume before becoming a GM

Either you're trolling or you really are that dense. Either way no point in continuing this convo

He is that dense, I wouldn't bother wasting your time.

 

[notbias]

This is what... year 7 for the Leafs? Sakic was in closer to day 1 of the rebuild. They had shown far greater progress than the Leafs have. But had they lost to St Louis last year they'd deservingly be a laughing stock as well


Winning is all that matters but you don't win cups over night.

But when it comes to Dubas keeping his job progress is what we're asking for no? This team has shown none of that. I'm not sure what we're arguing about now

You just made excuses for another team's GM (he went on to win something, and probably would have been canned in Toronto).

I find that amusing.

Dubas made progress. Series isn't over, but even if it is a single series, that is progress.

I am not happy with the progress, but I think the GM is the least of our issues currently.

 

[JKG33]

You just made excuses for another team's GM (he went on to win something, and probably would have been canned in Toronto).

I find that amusing.

Dubas made progress. Series isn't over, but even if it is a single series, that is progress.

I am not happy with the progress, but I think the GM is the least of our issues currently.

Hit me up then when Dubas' core makes the finals. Until then none of this matters. You don't get to hand pick another team's sweep one year yet ignore them in the finals the previous years.

 

[eddieO]

Kyle Dubas is easily the most overrated GM in the league because of the media hype in Toronto. I would not be surprised if Dubas has a publicist that feeds stories to a frenzied press with quotes from unnamed sources about how smart he is. Of course, fans will buy into it, but I doubt other hockey execs would.

You just have to ask yourself how many GMs who were given the team Dubas got, could do AT LEAST as well as Dubas did. I'd say about every single GM you can name could fluke into winning a single playoff round.

Nepo baby had five years. Don't let the door hit those oversized glasses on your way out.