Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[TheMadHatTrick]

That was Dubas.

Thanks. I wasnt sure. I didn't want to falsely attribute it.

 

[socko]

Imagine Matthews, our 40 goal #1C, face of the franchise not signing and holding out like Nylander?

Yeah that **** can't happen, I'd argue he has almost all the leverage in a contract negotiation

That's why it's better left to the professionals like Yzerman.

I'm already jealous of Detroit and he doesn't even work for them yet.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Imagine Matthews, our 40 goal #1C, face of the franchise not signing and holding out like Nylander?

Yeah that **** can't happen, I'd argue he has almost all the leverage in a contract negotiation

So what stopped McDavid from getting the max percentage? He theoretically has even more leverage on Edmonton as the face of the entire NHL under this premise. Was he just a good guy and gave them a massive haircut, in which case we should be blaming Matthews rather than Dubas for being greedy and selfish?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Any time you compare Matthews to players that signed a long time ago, you need to adjust for era. Most of that comes from the vast difference in PP opportunities. I'm going to make a comparison between Matthews, Stamkos, and Malkin. It will be the D+1 to D+3 for Matthews and Stamkos, and D+4 to D+6 for Malkin as the data wasn't available from his first year, and he spent two years after draft in Russia.

The comparison is this: If Stamkos and Malkin had a similar TOI-based opportunity to Matthews, what would be the results? I only use ES and PP points, which means no PK production or empty net production.

Here are the results:
Matthews - 95 even strength points, 83 primary | 47 power play points, 37 primary | 142 total points, 120 primary
Stamkos - 75 even strength points, 59 primary | 40 power play points, 31 primary | 115 total points, 90 primary
Malkin - 95 even strength points, 74 primary | 38 power play points, 26 primary | 133 total points, 100 primary

Malkin in his three years in this sample size played almost three times as much on the PP compared to Matthews. No wonder he scored more. Stamkos played about 50% more on the PP, which is the only reason his production was close to what Matthews does.

People need to realize what kind of talent we are dealing with here. He's as good as Malkin, and got paid less. He is significantly better than Stamkos, and got paid accordingly.

 

[Kiwi]

That's why it's better left to the professionals like Yzerman.

I'm already jealous of Detroit and he doesn't even work for them yet.

Let's see him pull that outside of Tampa and it's tax situation

It's also very debatable he's had to sign anybody as important as Matthews either, there aren't many franchise player, #1C, 40 goal scorers floating around The league right now

 

[Slyfox]

Dubas haters do you believe Lou is a better negotiater? If so explain the Zaitsev, Marleau and Leo(nyi) contracts.

 

[Kiwi]

So what stopped McDavid from getting the max percentage? He theoretically has even more leverage on Edmonton as the face of the entire NHL under this premise. Was he just a good guy and gave them a massive haircut, in which case we should be blaming Matthews rather than Dubas for being greedy and selfish?

He doesn't have to give a "hometown discount" if he doesn't want to

McDavid should be a cautionary tale to every player, he took a discount and hows that working out for him right now?
He's allowed to maximise his value, it's up to management to make it work

A good management team can make this contract work

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

He doesn't have to give a "hometown discount" if he doesn't want to

McDavid should be a cautionary tale to every player, he took a discount and hows that working out for him right now?
He's allowed to maximise his value, it's up to management to make it work

A good management team can make this contract work

He doesn't have to, but it says something. Tavares took a discount to be here despite having better offers (14M from San Jose) and being a UFA. He had a desire to be here and he wanted the team to be able to add and keep talent.

McDavid is a cautionary tale only if Matthews thinks we're going to suck and he'll want to bail at the nearest sign of trouble, which would be an even worse look for him. lol

It's not up to management to give the player whatever they want and make it work. It's up to management to do what's best for the team.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Kyle "AAV Fairy" Dubas.

Sprinkles more AAV than needed on all his Maple Leaf Leprechauns.

 

[Kiwi]

He doesn't have to, but it says something. Tavares took a discount to be here despite having better offers (14M from San Jose) and being a UFA. He had a desire to be here and he wanted the team to be able to add and keep talent.

McDavid is a cautionary tale only if Matthews thinks we're going to suck and he'll want to bail at the nearest sign of trouble, which would be an even worse look for him. lol

It's not up to management to give the player whatever they want and make it work. It's up to management to do what's best for the team.

So, why should Matthews care what Tavares did? That was Tavares decision, he did what he wanted, just like Matthews did

That's rubbish, McDavid took a discount so his team could spend that money on other players, Lucic and Russell come on down, McDavid helped his management team do that lol

Good luck with that one, you people think you can bully Matthews into doing what you want? Thats a ******* joke
What's your plan if he tells you to **** off? Trade him? lol

This place has got ******* delusional

 

[Buds17]

So, why should Matthews care what Tavares did? That was Tavares decision, he did what he wanted, just like Matthews did

That's rubbish, McDavid took a discount so his team could spend that money on other players, Lucic and Russell come on down, McDavid helped his management team do that lol

Good luck with that one, you people think you can bully Matthews into doing what you want? Thats a ******* joke
What's your plan if he tells you to **** off? Trade him? lol

This place has got ******* delusional

As a fan of a team, I think it's natural to hope for (more) team friendly contracts where possible. At the same time, a perceived better cap situation isn't ever going to be a guarantee for anything related to the ultimate in team success.

 

[thewave]

That was Dubas.

He is a politician after all. Said he will not be the one... Was not only the one, he was the worst of the lot.

 

[Kiwi]

As a fan of a team, I think it's natural to hope for (more) team friendly contracts where possible. At the same time, a perceived better cap situation isn't ever going to be a guarantee for anything related to the ultimate in team success.

That's a fair way of looking at it, I wanted a better deal myself but I'm not blindly ignorant of our situation in regards to leverage in this Matthews deal

He's one of the few players in the league that you just can't bully, trading him for fair value is next to impossible and the entire fan base will lose there minds if he holds out, those just aren't realistic scenarios

So what leverage do we actually have if he wants his?

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Yes, Dubas has done a good job. What people fail to understand is that as time passes and the salary cap goes up, players will be getting more. You can't compare players salaries from a decade ago.

 

[Buds17]

That's a fair way of looking at it, I wanted a better deal myself but I'm not blindly ignorant of our situation in regards to leverage in this Matthews deal

He's one of the few players in the league that you just can't bully, trading him for fair value is next to impossible and the entire fan base will lose there minds if he holds out, those just aren't realistic scenarios

So what leverage do we actually have if he wants his?

Agreed. Like with almost everything, time will be required to evaluate the full impact of this move (and the trickle down effect it has on other things with the team). I definitely didn't want him holding out or another team dictating the contract terms (even if an offersheet was going to be an unlikely occurrence).

A team can have a lot of wiggle room under the cap but little chance of winning a Cup, and that would absolutely not be a better situation to be in. If we have the right players and the right management etc., things could still very well work out for the best. If not, aside from winning being difficult, we can probably better assess how and why things fell short/went wrong if and when that happens.

 

[Matthews34]

I wonder if the people defending Matthews now will be defending him when he walks in 5 years and is playing in the US? (I didn't say Arizona because I think they'll be in Houston)

 

[Tonka]

I wonder if the people defending Matthews now will be defending him when he walks in 5 years and is playing in the US? (I didn't say Arizona because I think they'll be in Houston)

You mean how Stamkos came back to Toronto after his deal was up? Or how Matthews was supposed to be offer sheeted in the summer and end up in Arizona?

 

[Menzinger]

I wonder if the people defending Matthews now will be defending him when he walks in 5 years and is playing in the US? (I didn't say Arizona because I think they'll be in Houston)

I don’t think Leafs fans have any more reason to worry than the Pens did with Crosby or Malkin’s post ELC deal.

 

[Kiwi]

You should take a look at the % of the cap the years they won the cups.

Dubas' ****ed up by slow playing the kids deals while pimping himself during the summer . He pissed them off by originally lowlballing them and now he looks like a clown for getting bent over .

The guys bull**** has caught up with him and we're paying the price for his incompetence .

I don't agree with you on that one

None of the big RFA'S signed deals if you look at who's coming up at the end of this season, guys are willing to bet on themselves more now

If he wasn't willing to give Marner a 9MM AAV before the season started I can't really blame him

I wouldn't have given it to him either

 

[Chris18820]

McDavid could have stood his ground and told Oilers management he wanted 15 mill per and they would have gave it to him.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

You should take a look at the % of the cap the years they won the cups.

Dubas' ****ed up by slow playing the kids deals while pimping himself during the summer . He pissed them off by originally lowlballing them and now he looks like a clown for getting bent over .

The guys bull**** has caught up with him and we're paying the price for his incompetence .

To be fair, this is partially on Lou. Nylander could have been signed a year ago i believe, which would have allowed Dubas to focus on Matthews this summer.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

McDavid could have stood his ground and told Oilers management he wanted 15 mill per and they would have gave it to him.

Bingo. If McDavid said give me 15M and I'm not moving, you think the Oilers could say no? Either the Oilers negotiated like beasts or McDavid made the decision. Seriously is there a huge difference between 14M and 12.75M when you can better the team? It's not his fault Chia was incompetent in managing this largesse.

 

[Willy Styles]

Leafs have got basically 0 favours from our players. Not even in the slightest bit.

Kind of stupid, considering the endorsements and money they get cause of the Toronto market.

I understand it’s not that big a of a deal right now, but in five years when you need to sign Matthews and Marner for 20m+ each don’t say half of leafs nation didn’t tell you so.

The caveat to all this is, if they win a cup, none of this matters.

 

[thewave]

How anyone can trust this guy is insane to me...

He gave AM34 around 14 million dollars based on an 8 year deal. When you do the adjustments 11.6 x 5 would be around 14 freaking million dollars. It is literally just like Marners agent said, the best contract in the league right now and he is not even close to being as good as McDavid.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

McDavid could have stood his ground and told Oilers management he wanted 15 mill per and they would have gave it to him.

Or was their gm able to persuade him to take a discount?

All I know is, the leafs are getting screwed in these contracts. Not sure if it’s more of our players being greedy, our gm sucking, or a combination of both.