Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[HamiltonNHL]

I haven't taken less money than I deserve in my career, it would be wildly hypocritical of me to complain about somebody else fighting for what they deserve

The analogy is poor. Your career and mathews taking an extra large bite of the Cap are worlds apart.

 

[thewave]

doubt it, Dumbas is stupid enough to let him walk for nothing, or use him as a "own rental."

The shock is wearing off and the reality sinking in of how much we overpaid. The bigger issue is that all future contracts will be overpays until we run out of cap. Kappy 3.5m? Nope 4.2m AJ 3m? nope try 3.8 and then we can't afford D and hit the wall. Terrible.

 

[rumman]

The shock is wearing off and the reality sinking in of how much we overpaid. The bigger issue is that all future contracts will be overpays until we run out of cap. Kappy 3.5m? Nope 4.2m AJ 3m? nope try 3.8 and then we can't afford D and hit the wall. Terrible.

Kyle Dumbas: NHL Player's Association Man of the Year.

 

[Kiwi]

The analogy is poor. Your career and mathews taking an extra large bite of the Cap are worlds apart.

Building the team isn't his responsibility, Dubas signed it so I'm presuming he thinks he can make it work

Just like the management at my company, it's there job to run the company successfully, it's up to me to do the best I can for myself

 

[BertCorbeau]

Unpopular opinion: the 'overpayments' of Nylander, Matthews, and Marner will cost the Leafs 1 quality piece that they will have to trade and (*gasp*) acquire picks/prospects that they can use to restock the system.

After the Hawks won the cup in 2010, they had to move Buff and Ladd for cap constraints. They were still able to retool the roster, stay competitive, and win again in 2013.

After the 2013 cup, they had to move Bolland for similar reasons. They were able to retool and win again in 2015.

The common theme here is that the Hawks had their elite core in place and had to find the right surrounding pieces. The Leafs are one contract away from locking up their elite core (arguably two if you include a Muzzin extension).

What will keep the team competitive is the ability to move supporting players for assets and turn those assets into cheaper supporting players.

I'm not a fan of the Matthews' deal, the term is too short for the AAV, but we were all expecting that sort of AAV anyway. The main gripe should be with the term. Nylander is also high IMO, and I expect Marner's deal to be high based on Matthews. But the criticism here is largely overblown in the big picture.

 

[rumman]

Unpopular opinion: the 'overpayments' of Nylander, Matthews, and Marner will cost the Leafs 1 quality piece that they will have to trade and (*gasp*) acquire picks/prospects that they can use to restock the system.

After the Hawks won the cup in 2010, they had to move Buff and Ladd for cap constraints. They were still able to retool the roster, stay competitive, and win again in 2013.

After the 2013 cup, they had to move Bolland for similar reasons. They were able to retool and win again in 2015.

The common theme here is that the Hawks had their elite core in place and had to find the right surrounding pieces. The Leafs are one contract away from locking up their elite core (arguably two if you include a Muzzin extension).

What will keep the team competitive is the ability to move supporting players for assets and turn those assets into cheaper supporting players.

I'm not a fan of the Matthews' deal, the term is too short for the AAV, but we were all expecting that sort of AAV anyway. The main gripe should be with the term. Nylander is also high IMO, and I expect Marner's deal to be high based on Matthews. But the criticism here is largely overblown in the big picture.

when the Leafs have won a cup this post will be pertinent. If/when the Leafs win the cup, I'll be content in seeing the team dismantled to retain what can be retained.

 

[Al14]

Unpopular opinion: the 'overpayments' of Nylander, Matthews, and Marner will cost the Leafs 1 quality piece that they will have to trade and (*gasp*) acquire picks/prospects that they can use to restock the system.

After the Hawks won the cup in 2010, they had to move Buff and Ladd for cap constraints. They were still able to retool the roster, stay competitive, and win again in 2013.

After the 2013 cup, they had to move Bolland for similar reasons. They were able to retool and win again in 2015.

The common theme here is that the Hawks had their elite core in place and had to find the right surrounding pieces. The Leafs are one contract away from locking up their elite core (arguably two if you include a Muzzin extension).

What will keep the team competitive is the ability to move supporting players for assets and turn those assets into cheaper supporting players.

I'm not a fan of the Matthews' deal, the term is too short for the AAV, but we were all expecting that sort of AAV anyway. The main gripe should be with the term. Nylander is also high IMO, and I expect Marner's deal to be high based on Matthews. But the criticism here is largely overblown in the big picture.

Chicago was able to win the Cup once, before having to shed talent due to the Cap. It looks like our Leafs will have to shed talent, due to Cap constraints, as soon as next season! And, if they don't get by round 1 of the playoffs this season, they'll be losing talent even before winning a single playoff series! Not ideal!

 

[Al14]

when the Leafs have won a cup this post will be pertinent. If/when the Leafs win the cup, I'll be content in seeing the team dismantled to retain what can be retained.

Will you be content seeing our team dismantled as early as next season? We may not even win a playoff round to boot.

What happens when mistakes are made choosing the players to shed/keep due to Cap constraint? Johnsson and Kapanen are nice pieces. What happens if we lose them and Nylander doesn't work out?

 

[rumman]

Will you be content seeing our team dismantled as early as next season? We may not even win a playoff round to boot.

What happens when mistakes are made choosing the players to shed/keep due to Cap constraint? Johnsson and Kapanen are nice pieces. What happens if we lose them and Nylander doesn't work out?

no, I'll be venting about the incompetence of Leaf Management from Shanahan down to the last idiotic cap nerd for taking what could have been a dynasty and destroying it within a calendar year.

 

[RLF]

Will you be content seeing our team dismantled as early as next season? We may not even win a playoff round to boot.

What happens when mistakes are made choosing the players to shed/keep due to Cap constraint? Johnsson and Kapanen are nice pieces. What happens if we lose them and Nylander doesn't work out?

In all fairness to Nylander, he has been quite good the past 5-6 games. Last season form...finally. I also think we are all pretty sure he is at least a 50+ pt forward on the low end. I would hate to lose Kappy and/or Johnsson unless I am getting a piece back I can't refuse.
All that said, Nylander is still my choice to trade as we should get cap space and return a more cost effective D and some assets on top of that. Might just be me, but he is the most logical piece to move if you want to keep as many players as possible, improve our D, get other assets and reduce our cap...all in one move.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Might just be me, but he is the most logical piece to move if you want to keep as many players as possible

Nylander is trade bait on a trade bait contract

 

[Al14]

In all fairness to Nylander, he has been quite good the past 5-6 games. Last season form...finally. I also think we are all pretty sure he is at least a 50+ pt forward on the low end. I would hate to lose Kappy and/or Johnsson unless I am getting a piece back I can't refuse.
All that said, Nylander is still my choice to trade as we should get cap space and return a more cost effective D and some assets on top of that. Might just be me, but he is the most logical piece to move if you want to keep as many players as possible, improve our D, get other assets and reduce our cap...all in one move.

Yes, Nylander has been better lately, however, unless he turns into a 30 goal 80 point player, I think he is over paid at his new cap hit. Losing Kapanen and/or Johnsson would be a shame because we signed Nylander for too much.

 

[rumman]

Nylander is trade bait on a trade bait contract

You keep saying this, I hope your correct, hate to see Marner elsewhere at the expense of WN.

 

[rumman]

Yes, Nylander has been better lately, however, unless he turns into a 30 goal 80 point player, I think he is over paid at his new cap hit. Losing Kapanen and/or Johnsson would be a shame because we signed Nylander for too much.

there's no doubt he's been playing much better, but let's keep it real, he hasn't been close to 7 mil a year better.

 

[RLF]

Yes, Nylander has been better lately, however, unless he turns into a 30 goal 80 point player, I think he is over paid at his new cap hit. Losing Kapanen and/or Johnsson would be a shame because we signed Nylander for too much.

Nylander contract is a factor, but not the only one. imo He is overpaid by $500-$750K max. So even if we got Nylander at 6X$6.25, doesn't save Kappy and Johnsson.
I just think we could have both Kappy and Johnsson for the Nylander money and also get a good D and assets back for Willy, which makes us a better team overall. I am not for getting rid of Nylander, he can produce when on his game, which is valuable. But when I see him as our 4th best forward and Kappy close behind, and the Johnsson close behind Kappy...he becomes my piece I would use to improve the team and keep other pieces. He's a very good player, but sometimes you have to move very good players to get overall better.

 

[Al14]

Nylander is trade bait on a trade bait contract

That trade bait contract might not look that good to teams not seeing value through his performance. Sure, a team might take a chance if he underperforms, however, the return offered, might be underwhelming.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I'm not a fan of the Matthews' deal, the term is too short for the AAV, but we were all expecting that sort of AAV anyway. The main gripe should be with the term. Nylander is also high IMO, and I expect Marner's deal to be high based on Matthews. But the criticism here is largely overblown in the big picture.

Overpaying RFAs and losing a key piece just further erodes the chance of acquiring the world's most elusive team trophy: Lord Stanley.

MLSE has failed to create a culture that players want to take reasonable AAV and term to go for a cup. Tampa Bay and Boston did it. We didn't.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You keep saying this, I hope your correct, hate to see Marner elsewhere at the expense of WN.

I can't imagine a worse outcome.

 

[RLF]

You keep saying this, I hope your correct, hate to see Marner elsewhere at the expense of WN.

That won't happen.imo
These contracts may cost us someone else though.

 

[socko]

Do you trust our rookie GM Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

 

[Al14]

Overpaying RFAs and losing a key piece just further erodes the chance of acquiring the world's most elusive team trophy: Lord Stanley.

MLSE has failed to create a culture that players want to take reasonable AAV and term to go for a cup. Tampa Bay and Boston did it. We didn't.

You bet! It looks to me that it's Me Nylander, Me Matthews, and soon, it'll be Me Marner. Boy, if I'm Tavares, I'm wishing I could take a mulligan and sign in SJ for $2.0M more! Leaving money on the table for these greedy young punks to cash in is reprehensible. It also means you'll be playing with a supporting cast of cheap players constantly being turned over.

 

[rumman]

That won't happen.imo
These contracts may cost us someone else though.

they'll have to eviscerate the 2nd/3rd tier players on this team to keep it fiscally doable, probably rushing D prospects in the process, I've seen this film before...............

 

[RLF]

they'll have to eviscerate the 2nd/3rd tier players on this team to keep it fiscally doable, probably rushing D prospects in the process, I've seen this film before...............

We may be weak on D next year for sure. Something I am not thrilled about as it is a step backward.

 

[rumman]

We may be weak on D next year for sure. Something I am not thrilled about as it is a step backward.

and the year after there's a good chance Muzzin walks or is too expensive............

 

[RLF]

and the year after there's a good chance Muzzin walks or is too expensive............

It all depends on where the cap goes with all these TV deals and gambling money. The issue with going lean next season, is possibly wasting your one year with Muzzin and other contracts you waste a year of.