Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[ImpartialNHLfan]

LOL at trusting double agent Dubas. The only question left is who he's working for, it is Boston, Montreal or Tampa bay. TB is my best guess, or possibly they're all chipping in to pay him, who knows?

Probably Bettman… The last thing he want's is Toronto winning the cup. Im sure he's paying the media off too since there all gushing over this contract.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

sometimes it's good to trust the professionals. that's all i'm gonna say.

 

[donkshow]

He's fine.

Look, these guys are not overpaid. They are paid appropriately. I don't think it's right to criticize Dubas on being unable to get a strong hometown discount from the stars on the team. The young players nowadays are much smarter and more savvy when it comes to their new contracts. They are aware of just how good they are. These are their best years and they should get paid accordingly.

I don't think it's fair to criticize market-value contracts. These players are not overpaid and in two years Matthews contract will be considered a bargain.

You cannot point to contracts like Nathan MacKinnon, either, because his agent f***ed that up. They were not intending on taking this steep of a discount, obviously.

 

[Bluelines]

Best team we've seen in I don't know how long, with young stars with massive potential, and some go on and on about contracts, and what they would have done, without a clue what went on behind the scenes

Oh they know everything, some of them can read the minds of other people, all the time I have tools on this forum telling me what I "actually" thought. It would appear most of them have no clue what goes on in front of the scenes either.

I guess the Leafs are now doomed to be terrible again, now that Matthews was paid what he deserves... time to pick up a new sport .... maybe I'll start watching cricket?

 

[Bluelines]

-Tavares signed for term - a good start
-Nylander's contract will look like a steal half-way through
-Matthews's contract is fair and has a silver lining for both sides

-Muzzin acquisition significantly improves team at reasonable cost
-Efficiency signings have made bottom of the line-up better than it's been in a long time
-Drafting BPA instead for size/position

The only thing he seemingly bungled was stalling out Nylander, but for all we know, that drove his cost down at very little expense to the team, which started the season exceptionally.

I think I would put the Sparks/Mcback up in the things he messed up but who knows, next year Sparks might be the best back up in hockey. Sparks actually looked like a NHL goalie in his last game, I didn't even know it was him till halfway through the 1st period.

 

[Bomber0104]

Preach the truth bother!

It boggles my mind how many "experts" on this forum know how to be a NHL GM better than a team of experienced NHL executives that vetted Dubas before they hired him.

Don't stop there.

In addition to forum experts, there's also current players, current executives, former executives, and current agents that have all commented on how much the Leafs gave up.

Who doesn't think it was a heist?

Only a smaller number of overzealous Leafs fans. What a stunning coincidence!

Is it arrogance? Is it Narcissism? Is it the snowflake mentality where everyone is right all the time and all opinions have value? Reading the comments on here, some people should have had the stupid slapped out of their mouths when they were younger. This thread is what happens when people are not taught to THINK before you speak.

I would take a look in the mirror.

You're also blabbing off, but at least the people doing it here are generally grounded in reality whereas someone like you is just defending incompetence.

I know which side of the fence I'd rather be on.

The forum "experts" know that Matthews contract was an over payment. Matthews who is receiving less % of the cap than McDavid, who has been the 2nd best goal producer per game over the last 3 years. Think about that a guy who scores at a pace better than everyone in the world except for Ovie, is signed to a contract that is less than McDavid's. Shouldn't a guy who scores at an elite pace be paid at an elite rate?

In case you've just joined the discussion, can't read, or can't understand the arguments against the contract...it's not the cap hit that people are shocked with. It's the term.

People continue to make the same banal comments, that are not based in knowledge, are illustrating just how little they know about business, hockey, the world for that matter.

And yet in this wall of text you just wasted your time on, you've brought just one actual argument to the table favoring the contract (the above) which was just refuted.

Is Dubas perfect, no but calling him juvenile names like Dumbass is a pitiful commentary on the shallow depths of our fan base.

This place has been for a lack of a better word, pitiful since the Matthews signing, we locked up our best player, one of the best in the world for the next 6 playoffs, that should be a good thing but no, we have to #***** and moan over having the opportunity to have an elite core for the next 6 playoffs. Hell give him $15 mil per over the next 8 years, who cares, we will still have an extremely competitive team for the next 6 playoffs.

Fan's need to get back to being fans of the on ice product and away from being financial auditors of the team's P & L.

I would start caring less about what people on a hockey discussion board think.

Whining about other people's perceived whining isn't a good look.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Oh they know everything, some of them can read the minds of other people, all the time I have tools on sixths forum telling me what I "actually" thought. It would appear most of them have no clue what goes on in front of the scenes either.

I guess the Leafs are now doomed to be terrible again, now that Matthews was paid what he deserves... time to pick up a new sport .... maybe I'll start watching cricket?

The funny thing is everyone freaking out even though this is simply the new norm. We are lucky as Leafs fans that we're getting our core locked up BEFORE the lockout which is gonna happen.

Leafs are using their financial muscle by loading these contracts with signing bonuses, which may or may not be allowed after the next lockout.

We'll see. Just saying I think Shanny and Co. have done pretty much everything right for once. I'm gonna go ahead and trust that they know what they're doing here and have an actual plan brainstormed out for the future. I'm pretty sure these guys have actually thought about the future you know?

 

[Bomber0104]

The funny thing is everyone freaking out even though this is simply the new norm. We are lucky as Leafs fans that we're getting our core locked up BEFORE the lockout which is gonna happen.

Leafs are using their financial muscle by loading these contracts with signing bonuses, which may or may not be allowed after the next lockout.

We'll see. Just saying I think Shanny and Co. have done pretty much everything right for once. I'm gonna go ahead and trust that they know what they're doing here and have an actual plan brainstormed out for the future. I'm pretty sure these guys have actually thought about the future you know?

This isn't the new norm.

The Leafs are the first team to surrender all leverage and pack a star players RFA contract with literally every incentive (both financial and non-financial) under the sun, in return for just 1 year of unrestricted free agency.

How can you call it a "norm" if we're the first and only team so far to do it?

 

[thewave]

Matthews deal is so bad, you have to hate this team to respect the deal. It actually cant be called a deal at all, its a robbery.

Cant believe people trust Dubas. Astonishing.

 

[Bluelines]

The funny thing is everyone freaking out even though this is simply the new norm. We are lucky as Leafs fans that we're getting our core locked up BEFORE the lockout which is gonna happen.

Leafs are using their financial muscle by loading these contracts with signing bonuses, which may or may not be allowed after the next lockout.

We'll see. Just saying I think Shanny and Co. have done pretty much everything right for once. I'm gonna go ahead and trust that they know what they're doing here and have an actual plan brainstormed out for the future. I'm pretty sure these guys have actually thought about the future you know?

That is impossible, I've read the fan feedback on this forum and I'm pretty sure there is no plan, just a dartboard and $$$ amounts assigned to each section on the dartboard, Dubie gets up throws a dart ... Matthews gets 11 mill ...tomorrow Marner... 4 mil... 'cause that is what the dartboard of cap management says.

The old saying is stupid people don't know they are stupid, they only know what they know. Fans know Dubas messed up, they know because they have years of experience as a GM, No? Oh they have years of experience as Cap managers on an NHL team, no? Oh they have degrees in financial management, no? Ohhh I get it, they have years of experience of watching Sportsdesk and have learned how to be an expert on everything hockey. So I've watched Gretzky, Lemieux and other HOF centers play the game for decades, that must make me an elite HOF Center.

I should sell "Everything I know, I learned from TSN" T-Shirts... I'll be a hundred-aire...

 

[thewave]

This isn't the new norm.

The Leafs are the first team to surrender all leverage and pack a star players contract with literally every incentive (both financial and non-financial) under the sun, in return for just 1 year of unrestricted free agency.

How can you call it a "norm" if we're the first and only team so far to do it?

I'm a stones throw away from walking away from in season spectatorship. Basically right now i am just watching cap hell unraveling while in the back of my head thinking... This is so bad, did the agency pay Dubas off.

We appear to be right back into the gross mismanagement of this team and i want tangible results in 2 3 years. I want a cup in that time, certainly a conference finals.

 

[4thline]

This isn't the new norm.

The Leafs are the first team to surrender all leverage and pack a star players RFA contract with literally every incentive (both financial and non-financial) under the sun, in return for just 1 year of unrestricted free agency.

Outside of the summer of 2017 the only thing irregular about this contract is the bonuses. McDavid was the outlier

 

[Bluelines]

He's fine.

Look, these guys are not overpaid. They are paid appropriately. I don't think it's right to criticize Dubas on being unable to get a strong hometown discount from the stars on the team. The young players nowadays are much smarter and more savvy when it comes to their new contracts. They are aware of just how good they are. These are their best years and they should get paid accordingly.

I don't think it's fair to criticize market-value contracts. These players are not overpaid and in two years Matthews contract will be considered a bargain.

You cannot point to contracts like Nathan MacKinnon, either, because his agent ****ed that up. They were not intending on taking this steep of a discount, obviously.

I would love to see any of the people who think Matthews deal was a rip off because he didn't take a hair cut, practice what they preach, they need to go into their boss's office and say, boss I want to take a pay cut less than my peers because I want this business to be successful in this city.

What do they call people that want others to do things they wouldn't do themselves?

 

[Mess]

His contracts to Nylander and Matthews speak for themselves.

The fact NHL community GMs/Execs criticize both signings another indicator of job performance and speaks to trust levels in negotiating.

Unfortunately these turn into a snowball going down hill events, because once precedence is established in previous contracts it will not effect all future contracts.

If the hope was to get Marner on a 8 year deal the Matthews deal has now changed that to a 5-6 year as the player/agent realize they can get elite money without even giving up UFA years for themselves.

 

[Bluelines]

I'm a stones throw away from walking away from in season spectatorship. Basically right now i am just watching cap hell unraveling while in the back of my head thinking... This is so bad, did the agency pay Dubas off.

We appear to be right back into the gross mismanagement of this team and i want tangible results in 2 3 years. I want a cup in that time, certainly a conference finals.

So you are a stones throw away from not watching the team that is on pace to have one of its best regular seasons of all time because you don't like what the players are getting paid?

Could the Leafs make a trade that would help with this cap hell as you call it?

Are you a fan of the on ice product or a fan of financial transactions?

Perhaps you would be happier here? Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[thewave]

I would love to see any of the people who think Matthews deal was a rip off because he didn't take a hair cut, practice what they preach, they need to go into their boss's office and say, boss I want to take a pay cut less than my peers because I want this business to be successful in this city.

What do they call people that want others to do things they wouldn't do themselves?

What happened is... Matthews walked into the office and said, give me McDavid money. Dubas said, ok but i need to shorten term by 3 years and give you something closer to JT money. Matthews said ok to that and now the expectation is that we build a team based on contracts that are overvalued and overpaid. Marner will get 10 or 11 million and thats the end of it. The next set of contracts jam.us to the ceiling and the process of cannibalism starts.

 

[Bomber0104]

I would love to see any of the people who think Matthews deal was a rip off because he didn't take a hair cut, practice what they preach, they need to go into their boss's office and say, boss I want to take a pay cut less than my peers because I want this business to be successful in this city.

What do they call people that want others to do things they wouldn't do themselves?

And on the flip side of that I would love to see how many fortune 500 companies were built on the backs of their owners or managers caving to employee salary demands.

 

[thewave]

So you are a stones throw away from not watching the team that is on pace to have one of its best regular seasons of all time because you don't like what the players are getting paid?

Could the Leafs make a trade that would help with this cap hell as you call it?

Are you a fan of the on ice product or a fan of financial transactions?

Perhaps you would be happier here? Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I walked away from baseball after the strikes. I also walked away and took a few years off from hockey as well in the past. I dont care, incompetence is infuriating to me and i have seen enough of it around this team. I said, 3 years. It takes them to Rielly and Freddy. Its when good player like lilj and Sandin will emerge. I anticipate complete disgust without results.

This organization must win soon. 67

 

[BlueForever75]

I honestly do not have an issue with the deals. I for one on this board don't pretend to have insider knowledge or can see into the future of what is going to happen with the CBA or next TV deal. One thing is for certain, Dubas and the rest of the Leafs organization do have an idea. So for this I believe there is more to all of this then any of you think you know.

When all is said and done, the Leafs will come out rosey. The only insider I believe when I hear things is John Shannon. He has worked for large television networks when it comes to the NHL, and has many insiders at an ownership and league level that not even a Bob Mackenzie has. If he thinks the deals are good for both players and the Leafs for today and the future. Then I will take his word. Burkie is a soured former exec that has been jettisoned from the league. He has no clue of what he is saying.

People just need to relax and let this play out. Does everyone on this board actually think that the richest organization in the NHL will allow their star players to walk for nothing? Give you heads a shake people!!!

 

[Al14]

Do people picture Dubas as the only one working on these contracts?

No, he had his boss, and the rest of the fools in the front office, handing out AAV like candy canes at Christmas!

 

[4thline]

What happened is... Matthews walked into the office and said, give me McDavid money.

No what he did was was say that he doesn't buy the idea that McDavid is worth several percentage points less than Crosby/Malkin, and/or that McDavid's generosity reset the market norm.

 

[thewave]

His contracts to Nylander and Matthews speak for themselves.

The fact NHL community GMs/Execs criticize both signings another indicator of job performance and speaks to trust levels in negotiating.

Unfortunately these turn into a snowball going down hill events, because once precedence is established in previous contracts it will not effect all future contracts.

If the hope was to get Marner on a 8 year deal the Matthews deal has now changed that to a 5-6 year as the player/agent realize they can get elite money without even giving up UFA years for themselves.

Yes. These are the issues. The snowball effect is real and all players are involved in this new scheme.

 

[thewave]

No what he did was was say that he doesn't buy the idea that McDavid is worth several percentage points less than Crosby/Malkin, and/or that McDavid's generosity reset the market norm.

I would discuss this with you but you dont seem to get the value of UFA years. Matthews when adjusted got like 16.5/17%

Its greedy, so bad for the value of this player that goes in slumps and is injured every year that, well, its a terrible nasty contract. I would have rejected it and fire Dubas if i were owner.

 

[Bomber0104]

No what he did was was say that he doesn't buy the idea that McDavid is worth several percentage points less than Crosby/Malkin, and/or that McDavid's generosity reset the market norm.

Generosity? Don't stop there. How about commitment to the team?

Matthews set the contract up so he can screw over the Leafs in year 5 with a full NMC.

If he won't re-sign with the Leafs and/or asks for another blank cheque, the Leafs don't have a choice but to either cave to his demands or let him get to July 1st and compete with the other 31 teams' offers.

I get it...we as Leafs fans are used to shabby performance by both players and management and we've been more or less blessed to even have some actual talent, but that doesn't mean you have to throw your standards out the window and accept crap like this.

 

[Bomber0104]

I would discuss this with you but you dont seem to get the value of UFA years. Matthews when adjusted got like 16.5/17%

Its greedy, so bad for the value of this player that goes in slumps and is injured every year that, well, its a terrible nasty contract. I would have rejected it and fire Dubas if i were owner.

You know it's bad when a professional agent calls it the "best contract" (from the player side). Oh and then fellow players, former GM's, current executives...

Who disagrees with their assessments? ...

A small number of Leafs fans.

Who could have seen that coming?