Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Over half of our own fanbase think Dubas is bad at negotiating, as the poll shows.

Imagine what his fellow GM's think?

I'm not sure who ForrestHabsGump is (for example) but he voted no and I feel like he/she is probably not a Leafs fan......I could be wrong though?

If you click on the poll you can see who voted what. Seeing quite a few names up there that I suspect aren't actually Leafs fans. So I hope you don't actually think 50% of Leafs fans are upset that we signed Matthews and Nylander to long term deals with great flexibility.

 

[Bluelines]

He is not wrong. It was a heist. Its 16.5% adjusted for a player not deserving that. Stamkos and Toews took 5 year deals at 11% and thats the level of player his is.

If you think Matthews is the best player in hockey, well.

Over a 3 years period he has the 2nd highest goals per game rate, while not #1, 2nd is pretty damn high. The guy is only 21 years old, is it possible he will develop into an even better player.

16.5% adjusted? What do you mean adjusted? You do get that the cap is going to go up significantly over the next 2 years eh? The NHL is about to sign a new national television US contract, speculation is it will eclipse the one Rogers signed for Canadian broadcast rights. Seattle expansion, half of that $650 million expansion fee goes to the players. The NHL just signed a deal with MGM resorts to build on the legal sports betting.

The American Gaming Association released some figures that were quoted by Bettman today. He didn’t directly endorse this projection, but he didn’t scoff at it either.

The National Hockey League’s (NHL) annual revenue may increase by $216 million annually due to widely available, legal, regulated sports betting, according to a new Nielsen Sports study commissioned by the American Gaming Association (AGA).

According to Nielsen Sports, greater fan engagement and viewership could boost the NHL’s total annual revenue from media rights, sponsorships, merchandise and ticket sales by 3.5 percent, producing $151 million in new revenue from increased consumption of the league’s products.

NHL announces gambling partnership: What does this mean for the Leafs?
​

You have to understand that the new TV contract is going to be huge for the cap, the NHL HRR is mostly driven by gate receipts, the NHL is a gate driven league. Bettmen has always pursued the NFL model, where TV revenue is the man financial driver, gate and merchandise are 2nd and 3rd. Bettman will get his cash cow US TV deal.

As much as I think Bettman is a troll, he is very adept at growing the business. In a very short period of time, the cap will exceed $100 million per year.

Patience is a respectable trait in a man. I think we could all show a little more?

 

[thewave]

Please do.

I've never wanted to watch this Leafs team more, but I've only been a die-hard for 23 years so maybe I'm missing out on something?

Its the pain of something so right being done so wrong by. I am still in shock, like the lesser version of the US aborting post birth.

 

[leafs in five]

Imagine what his fellow GM's think?

all but a couple probably think he's got a better team than what they have the capacity to assemble

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I wonder if the people defending Matthews now will be defending him when he walks in 5 years and is playing in the US? (I didn't say Arizona because I think they'll be in Houston)

He won't be allowed to walk in 5 years.
He will either sign a contract extension in 4 years or will be traded to the highest bidder before his no movement clause kicks in.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm not sure who ForrestHabsGump is (for example) but he voted no and I feel like he/she is probably not a Leafs fan......I could be wrong though?

If you click on the poll you can see who voted what. Seeing quite a few names up there that I suspect aren't actually Leafs fans. So I hope you don't actually think 50% of Leafs fans are upset that we signed Matthews and Nylander to long term deals with great flexibility.

Yeah I see that a number of other teams fans voted "Yes" as well.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

It's beyond disgusting tbh. 14m adjusted to 8 years, more than McDavid.

But less than Crosby, Malkin and Ovie on their second deals.

 

[leafs in five]

like the lesser version of the US aborting post birth.

what

 

[BlueForever75]

This is what I have been saying all along. Everyone is crying on the term of deals or even the dollar values given to both Matthews and Nylander. Everyone needs to understand that there is more to this that none of us know. Shannon on the FAN basically stated exactly this. TV contract, legal betting, expansion to Seattle and global market (China) will all increase the revenues for the NHL which in turn can hypothetically raise the cap to 120-130 million a season by 2023. This means the Leafs will be more then ok when it comes to re-signing their core if they choose too.

I agree we all need to relax and let this play out. In the end we have players locked up for the next 5-6 years. It shouldn't be a worry of ours when the people running the organization have a lot more knowledge on the situation then we all do.

 

[thewave]

Over a 3 years period he has the 2nd highest goals per game rate, while not #1, 2nd is pretty damn high. The guy is only 21 years old, is it possible he will develop into an even better player.

16.5% adjusted? What do you mean adjusted? You do get that the cap is going to go up significantly over the next 2 years eh? The NHL is about to sign a new national television US contract, speculation is it will eclipse the one Rogers signed for Canadian broadcast rights. Seattle expansion, half of that $650 million expansion fee goes to the players. The NHL just signed a deal with MGM resorts to build on the legal sports betting.

The American Gaming Association released some figures that were quoted by Bettman today. He didn’t directly endorse this projection, but he didn’t scoff at it either.

The National Hockey League’s (NHL) annual revenue may increase by $216 million annually due to widely available, legal, regulated sports betting, according to a new Nielsen Sports study commissioned by the American Gaming Association (AGA).

According to Nielsen Sports, greater fan engagement and viewership could boost the NHL’s total annual revenue from media rights, sponsorships, merchandise and ticket sales by 3.5 percent, producing $151 million in new revenue from increased consumption of the league’s products.

NHL announces gambling partnership: What does this mean for the Leafs?
​

You have to understand that the new TV contract is going to be huge for the cap, the NHL HRR is mostly driven by gate receipts, the NHL is a gate driven league. Bettmen has always pursued the NFL model, where TV revenue is the man financial driver, gate and merchandise are 2nd and 3rd. Bettman will get his cash cow US TV deal.

As much as I think Bettman is a troll, he is very adept at growing the business. In a very short period of time, the cap will exceed $100 million per year.

Patience is a respectable trait in a man. I think we could all show a little more?

You dance around. He has been injured every year. He goes into slumps. He was a plug last PO and % is % and he was not deserving of 3% more than Stamkos and Toews on 5 year deals.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Seattle expansion, half of that $650 million expansion fee goes to the players.

Nope. That's split among the 31 other owners.

It's the revenue Seattle generates that is HRR.

Expansion fee is 100% to the other owners.

 

[Jack Bauer]

You dance around. He has been injured every year. He goes into slumps. He was a plug last PO and % is % and he was not deserving of 3% more than Stamkos and Toews on 5 year deals.

He hasn't been injured every year.

McDavid has missed more NHL games in his career then Matthews has.

 

[thewave]

what

Read about it. Its legal there in NY and Virginia.

 

[thewave]

He hasn't been injured every year.

McDavid has missed more NHL games in his career then Matthews has.

He played injured year 1. His production suffers every time. Its the upper body it seems.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He hasn't been injured every year.

McDavid has missed more NHL games in his career then Matthews has.

Matthews has been injured 3 of the last 4 years

 

[rumman]

You act as if this is unanimous. There are plenty of very smart NHL execs in the NHL thinking both deals are solid for the Leafs.

who are these NHL exec's? I haven't heard a sound bite from any other team's brass commenting one way or the other.

 

[4thline]

I would discuss this with you but you dont seem to get the value of UFA years. Matthews when adjusted got like 16.5/17%

It's McDavid that didn't understand or didn't care about the value of UFA years. His 12.5 should barely have been enough to get 5 years, and shouldn't have been in the realm of 8.

Crosby class = ~17% x 5, therefore should be MORE than that for 8. Like max money more.

A player the next step down getting ~14%x5 and 16+ x 8 fits.

The Oilers got a steal. You expected the same and are acting like a kid whose candy was stolen when you didn't get it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

He played injured year 1. His production suffers every time. Its the upper body it seems.

So we're going to play that game? There's not a player in the NHL who doesn't play through some pain over 82 games.

Fact though is that Matthews, despite suddenly getting an injury prone label some time Tuesday afternoon, has missed less time then McDavid despite having multiple smaller injuries to his 1 bigger one.

Using the reverse logic against you though: If you strip out games he doesn't feel well....he's literally the best player in the league using any splits you can find from when he plays and he's healthy.

 

[thewave]

It's McDavid that didn't understand or didn't care about the value of UFA years. His 12.5 should barely have been enough to get 5 years, and shouldn't have been in the realm of 8.

Crosby class = ~17% x 5, therefore should be MORE than that for 8. Like max money more.

The Oilers got a steal. You expected the same and are acting like a kid whose candy was stolen when you didn't get it.

Sorry i feel you are performing a service and trying to sway the public. I cant find anyone that isnt shilling that loves this deal.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Over half of our own fanbase think Dubas is bad at negotiating, as the poll shows.

Imagine what his fellow GM's think?

The Leafs control the media. We will never know.

Dubas should have sat or bridged Nylander as I suggested. That would have set the tone.

Dubas can redeem himself by trading Nylander. Of course at this stage 6 goal scorers don't fetch much.

 

[Jack Bauer]

It's McDavid that didn't understand or didn't care about the value of UFA years. His 12.5 should barely have been enough to get 5 years, and shouldn't have been in the realm of 8.

Crosby class = ~17% x 5, therefore should be MORE than that for 8. Like max money more.

A player the next step down getting ~14%x5 and 16+ x 8 fits.

The Oilers got a steal. You expected the same and are acting like a kid whose candy was stolen when you didn't get it.

And his 8 year deal seen no pressure put on management to try to win and keep him content.

The people in charge there are content to basically keep doing a rebuild while he wastes through these seasons because they know he has no other choice.

We know what our window is. We know it could be longer then that if we do well. Edmonton is still just hoping to have their shit together in years 5+ of his current deal so that he considers staying into his 30's.

He let those around him pressuring him as the best player dictate his term vs thinking about whats best for everyone involved including himself. Being selfless is a flaw if you're not careful and end up miserable in a shitty situation because of it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Over half of our own fanbase think Dubas is bad at negotiating, as the poll shows.

Imagine what his fellow GM's think?

And on the “is Burke doing a good job” polls from back in the day, it was like 80% that voted “yes”, which shows just how much it takes for this fan base to be honest about the team.

Dubas is doing THAT bad.

 

[thewave]

So we're going to play that game? There's not a player in the NHL who doesn't play through some pain over 82 games.

Fact though is that Matthews, despite suddenly getting an injury prone label some time Tuesday afternoon, has missed less time then McDavid despite having multiple smaller injuries to his 1 bigger one.

Using the reverse logic against you though: If you strip out games he doesn't feel well....he's literally the best player in the league using any splits you can find from when he plays and he's healthy.

Look, on 5 years he was deserving of 11% and 12% if you really really love him. Now be prepared to pay 11 to 12% for Mitch. This pattern repeats for all players now. I am only focused on that. Matthews is a Toews Stamkos level player and not Crosby Malkin or McDavid.

 

[Bluelines]

I would agree with no reason to call Dubas names.

But the rest...you're doing exactly what you complain others do. Which is not agreeing with ones opinion. Telling people they weren't raised properly or should think before they speak?

You do realize with your statements you also then have to concede that ANY GM ever hired, did a good job and knew better than everyone else. Did you agree with every move guys like Burke, Nonis, JFJ etc did for the Leafs? How about Chiarelli or Mike Milbury? All of these guys were vetted and given GM jobs. If GM's did a perfect job, they would never be fired. They are fallible, otherwise there would be NO NHL teams in a mess capwise or otherwise.

That is a bit of a stretch no? 99.9% of every NHL GM who was ever hired was fired, you can say that without a doubt almost every GM has failed and therefore their hiring was a mistake and they were not vetted properly. Every criticism of every fired GM is therefore valid. What I'm saying when I have to pick between a person who has experience in a certain field or some one who has an opinion because of observations gleaned from TV, I'll go with the guys who have actual experience. If you need a Doctor are you going to trust a person who is trained to be a Doctor or some soccer mom who just finished watching Gray's Anatomy?

Then you write the above in a later post. So you can think he messed up in one area and that's ok, but no one else can think he messed up somewhere else, like contracts?

You just call out people and tell them they are stupid for not agreeing with the GM and should think before the speak...then go on to write you think he messed up the back up situation. How is that possible if the GM knows best?

I haven't called Dubas any names, but I also am not sure I agree with his vision and how to allocate funds in a cap world...Not sure how that makes me or anyone that feels that way stupid and there is a need to get that slapped out of me/us.

You are not comparing apples to apples, it's OK to say he may have messed up with Sparks because we have a sampling of Sparks poor play to judge that decision. With Matthews signing we have ZERO days to understand if it was a poor decision or a good one. The contract is not even in effect till July 1st.... can we give it time before we start calling Dubas names and before we declare the decline of the TML Shanny plan Empire?

Everyone take a deep breath and lets see what Dubas and team does. Lets wait and see just how high the cap is going to go.

I guess the other option is for Dubas to Nylander the Matthews and Marner contracts and lets see if they get offer sheets, there is the option to let other teams dictate what you pay your players (if you match the offer).

 

[Bluelines]

You dance around. He has been injured every year. He goes into slumps. He was a plug last PO and % is % and he was not deserving of 3% more than Stamkos and Toews on 5 year deals.

What is the adjusted number?