Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[Gabriel426]

HAHAHAHA! you honestly believe that?

Well, I don’t think anyone will be close to Matthews, since Matthews is really in a class of his own.
But to think Laine(once he heats up) and Rantanen won’t be asking for 10 is wishful thinking.
Ofcourse, once the Cap number is out for next year, who knows what these RFAs will get. One thing for sure, I don’t think Laine, Rantanen, Aho and Point will get anything under Drai. Bc if it is Drai money, they would probably signed their deals already.

 

[ottomaddox]

No is winning. What a week it's been. First it's Muzzin Mania and now it's "fire Dubas and trade Matthews."

 

[rumman]

Basically that the deal makes no sense for the organization, and he sounded exasperated how any one in management good greenlight it.

That they paid too much money for only one year of UFA. That he doesn't know how we're going to keep him in 5 years with the current cap structure since we essentially already paid him UFA money as an RFA (the last bit is my editorializing). The suggestion being he's going to want close to 15M in 5 years based on where his salary is now.

I hate to agree with the blow hard, but pretty much.

 

[Bomber0104]

Basically that the deal makes no sense for the organization, and he sounded exasperated how any one in management good greenlight it.

That they paid too much money for only one year of UFA. That he doesn't know how we're going to keep him in 5 years with the current cap structure since we essentially already paid him UFA money as an RFA (the last bit is my editorializing). The suggestion being he's going to want close to 15M in 5 years based on where his salary is now.

My thoughts exactly.

Burke makes a better analyst than a GM.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

My thoughts exactly.

Burke makes a better analyst than a GM.

I'm curious how firm he stood with his own RFAs historically or if he's just talking the talk. I know he refused to give in to Penner which set off that debacle.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Brian Burke accuses Kevin Lowe of going "backdoor" on him.

I think Burke's comments about the Penner contract here shed light on his view of RFA contracts in general.

"What Edmonton did last summer was eliminate the second contract in the NHL. You typically have a guy in the entry-level system, he comes out of entry-level and he’s got no salary arbitration rights so you still have some control over what he’s paid. And then he gets arbitration rights and you hand him the hammer and he’s got the hammer for the rest of his career. And that’s fine. “Now we’re all paying guys right out of entry-level, we’re paying him that third contract right away."

 

[rumman]

Brian Burke accuses Kevin Lowe of going "backdoor" on him.

I think Burke's comments about the Penner contract here shed light on his view of RFA contracts in general.

pretty much what's happening.

 

[Faltorvo]

I hate to agree with the blow hard, but pretty much.

Just look at Matt duchene who is seriously entertaining a 8m x 8y deal. On pace for a 40g 90+ point season

our 100 point guys want 11.5m over 5 LOLZ.

our 20g 60 p guy gets 7m x 5y,,LOLZ

 

[hector morrison]

So now that I’ve shown (and you agree) that Matthews is paid far too much given his term, the argument is now “yeah, well.. maybe other gm’s will overpay as well.”

I don’t know. Again, it seems like you’re more interested in rationalizing these overpayments than you are for fairly analyzing them.

You said 'far too much' ...not I. especially with what the landscape will look like in a few years. The expectations of fans in this championship starved market have been raised up a notch. so the pressure is on for the players,team,etc.
I gaurantee other Gm's would have offered Auston much more. If he sat long enough to receive an offer sheet,he would be the highest paid player in the league.And as I said,the 5 year thing is interesting.We will see.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You said 'far too much' ...not I. especially with what the landscape will look like in a few years. The expectations of fans in this championship starved market have been raised up a notch. so the pressure is on for the players,team,etc.
I gaurantee other Gm's would have offered Auston much more. If he sat long enough to receive an offer sheet,he would be the highest paid player in the league.And as I said,the 5 year thing is interesting.We will see.

I bet some other gm's would have offered McDavid a FAR better contract than 12.5x8. I'm sure some other gm's would have offered Pastrnak FAR better than 6.6x6. But THOSE actual gm's still found a way to get an amazing contract out of those players. Our gm sucks.

 

[hector morrison]

I bet some other gm's would have offered McDavid a FAR better contract than 12.5x8. I'm sure some other gm's would have offered Pastrnak FAR better than 6.6x6. But THOSE actual gm's still found a way to get an amazing contract out of those players. Our gm sucks.

Too bad for you,that you see it that way! They are on the team,signed for years to come...how is this a negative thing?

 

[sxvnert]

Brian Burke accuses Kevin Lowe of going "backdoor" on him.

I think Burke's comments about the Penner contract here shed light on his view of RFA contracts in general.

League needs to put a 5yr term cap, evenly spread out bonuses from start to finish like aav, and remove trade clauses entirely. The rest I can live with.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

How much if any money did we really save on the UFA year we bought by signing him to 11.7M now as opposed to bridging him? That's usually the purpose of locking a guy up early during his second contract, right? Sign him for slightly more now to save a little in those UFA years you bought out? (i.e., Security for savings).

A bridge deal would/should have been what 9-10M over 3 or 4 years given our leverage? So let's say 40M on the high end, then he hypothetically comands 14M as a UFA. So if you resign him that would have been 54M over those 5 years (the bridge + the first year of his UFA contract).

Instead we signed him to 58.17M over those five years. So we gave him all the benefits of an extension (security) without the any of the savings in exchange for ourselves.

This deal would be palatable financially as a 6-year deal. A six year deal I think brings it to 69.8 over six, which would equal the bridge scenario by that point (10M x 4 bridge + 28M first two years of UFA = 68M).

I can see what Burke is talking about now. This deal makes no sense from a financial perspective for this team.

 

[sxvnert]

This deal makes no sense from a financial perspective for this team.

It does from Dubas' perspective. If the leafs fail to win the cup within the next six playoff years, do you think he or Babs will still be around?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

It does from Dubas' perspective. If the leafs fail to win the cup within the next six playoff years, do you think he or Babs will still be around?

So you're saying he made the move for the good of himself ahead of the team? Oh God, I hope that's not the guy we hired.

Also, you also realize that Matthews is guaranteed to be here at least 4 years already on his bridge (second contract) and his new contract doesn't keep him here for six years right?

 

[sxvnert]

So you're saying he made the move for the good of himself ahead of the team? Oh God, I hope that's not the guy we hired.

You can also look at it from another angle. If the leafs fail to seriously compete (conference finals at least) within the next four playoff rounds (after year three of matthews contract) Dubas might begin to consider some core changes. When Pittsburgh, Hawks, Kings signed their stars they at least had something to show for it.
Its conceivable that this group isn't the right mix to win a cup. We wont know until they've been battle tested in front of a solid top four D core. Then there wont be any excuses.
Will Dubas keep Babs around for another 2-3 years if this team continually under performs and hes still rocking Hyman in the top six? The contracts don't concern me as much as whether Dubas has the stones to make the difficult decisions.

 

[sxvnert]

Also, you also realize that Matthews is guaranteed to be here at least 4 years already on his bridge (second contract) and his new contract doesn't keep him here for six years right?

This years playoff is included.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I’m worried less about the actual contracts and more worried if can keep the team together. He’s trading term for flexibility and I’d rather be a great team for 5 years, than a good one for 8.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

This years playoff is included.

He's already under contract for this year so that's irrelevant to your rationalization. You said Dubas decided to give him the deal with an eye to the next 4-6 years, but all the deal does is add that sixth year. We already have his rights for the next 5 including this one, so what does that have to do with anything?

If he was really concerned only about the next 4-6 years as you said, then he would have been more firm in his negotiating or bridged him to keep the cap hit as low as possible so he could add better talent around him. Your explanation makes no sense.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

You can also look at it from another angle. If the leafs fail to seriously compete (conference finals at least) within the next four playoff rounds (after year three of matthews contract) Dubas might begin to consider some core changes. When Pittsburgh, Hawks, Kings signed their stars they at least had something to show for it.
Its conceivable that this group isn't the right mix to win a cup. We wont know until they've been battle tested in front of a solid top four D core. Then there wont be any excuses.
Will Dubas keep Babs around for another 2-3 years if this team continually under performs and hes still rocking Hyman in the top six? The contracts don't concern me as much as whether Dubas has the stones to make the difficult decisions.

I'm not really sure what any of this speculation about motives has to do with what I said. So he purposely signed Matthews to a shorter term so he could get rid of him if he doesn't win the cup in 5 years? Wouldn't a lower cap hit make it easier to trade him in that case?

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

I'd say BS. How much more would Matthews get, $12.5 at most? And if he's getting that much then it means we can ask an 8 year deal AND that he's only getting that because he and the team have a good 2019 playoff performance at which point I'd be happy to fork over $12.5. Why was there a need to do 11.6 at low term now?

As for your other points comparing him to GM's, you're using a logical fallacy. We're talking about this contract and his negotiation skills. We're not talking about his trades so I dunno why you're comparing his contract signings to GMs that made idiotic trades.

I don’t think you know what a logical fallacy is, or understand the context of the conervsation we’re having.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Flames' Matthew Tkachuk weighs in on impact of Auston Matthews' new deal - Sportsnet.ca

One respected Canadian team executive I reached out to referred to the “incompetence” of the deal interfering with the framework the rest of the league’s executives will have to work with moving forward.

 

[Gabriel426]

Flames' Matthew Tkachuk weighs in on impact of Auston Matthews' new deal - Sportsnet.ca

Isn’t that a good thing.

 

[Kiwi]

Flames' Matthew Tkachuk weighs in on impact of Auston Matthews' new deal - Sportsnet.ca

That's easy to say for other executives around the league when your not the one negotiating with a franchise cornerstone, 40 goal scoring #1C

I don't particularly like the contract but Dubas was in a **** position, Matthews is the face of the franchise and people would lose there ******* minds if that negotiation dragged on into summer

Without Matthews settled it's bloody hard to deal with everybody else, sorting out the cap ramifications involved

 

[rumman]

League needs to put a 5yr term cap, evenly spread out bonuses from start to finish like aav, and remove trade clauses entirely. The rest I can live with.

how about not guaranteeing contracts? Then the cream would really rise to the top, because floaters and coasters wouldn't exist beyond the term of their contracts.