Do you trust Keefe as a coach in the playoffs?

[Stephen]

Keefe overthinks and overreacts in his coaching. It’s not so much that he makes incremental adjustments to solve problems but presses every button assuming he’ll hit the right combination eventually but is at risk of creating fresh and new ones. It’s like someone who uses every spice on the rack when cooking. It’s overkill.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Keefe has not won a playoff series and has not won an elimination game. This team has not either.

That's also not true. We won game 4 Columbus under Keefe. The Leafs also won games 5 and 6 against Boston in 2018. And there are "big games" other than just elimination games. This is the playoffs. By the logic you're using, Tuesday was irrelevant, because it wasn't elimination. And again, I don't care if you like Keefe, or think he's a good coach. I didn't agree with everything he did either. But come up with an actual argument other than blaming the team's loss in game 1 entirely on him, while absolving other coaches of the same.

No matter how you feel, arguments shouldn't be based on double standards. That's a pretty simple and undeniable concept.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

To recap:

• Rookie GM of a legendary original 6 franchise
• Unlimited resources at his disposal
• Gifted Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly
• Tavares lands on his lap cause he wants to come home
• Old timey vets continue to come home on hometown discount deals, Thornton, Gio, Simmonds
• Has the ability to conduct thorough Coaching candidate search, resources are not an obstacle.
• Decides to give the reigns to his buddy from the Soo with zero NHL coaching experience cause he won a meaningless AHL championship

 

[shaner8989]

Looks like we were all correct in saying no.

 

[thewave]

Looks like we were all correct in saying no.

Dubas and Keefe are the gaming equivalents of button smashers.

 

[kevsh]

So even a back-to-back cup winning coach can have his team look like garbage in game 1. That kind of proves the point.

If your point is that even great coaches can have bad games, then yes, that proves they can.

But the point I thought I was pretty clearly making is that if you're a Bolts fan you can more easily shake off game 1 last year as a one-off given the team's very recent success; Cooper and his team have shown in the past they can shake off a bad game and still win the series, Keefe and the Leafs have not.

 

[egd27]

Cooper had just come off back-to-back Cup wins, he gets the benefit of the doubt. Keefe in his brief NHL career hasn't coached his team to a single series win, and it was painfully clear he got out-coached in game 1. He has not earned that benefit.

And judging by his (sadly predictable) line tinkering for game 2 (Read: He's already thrown out plan A after one game), he's already losing the coaching duel for game 2 before the puck even drops.

What is this "Plan A" you speak of?

It appears that like a lot of amateur coaches, Keefe believes if he can just find the "right" line combinations, everything will fall into place. It's about 20% of coaching.

 

[kevsh]

What is this "Plan A" you speak of?

The lines for a start.

For example, Keefe wanted to go with ROR at center with Tavares on his wing. Looks like he's abandoned that for game 2. (And to note, many observers felt that was a bad decision in the first place as that line wasn't great leading up to the playoffs).

 

[egd27]

The lines for a start.

For example, Keefe wanted to go with ROR at center with Tavares on his wing. Looks like he's abandoned that for game 2. (And to note, many observers felt that was a bad decision in the first place as that line wasn't great leading up to the playoffs).

I was being a little sarcastic about there being an actual Plan A.

I don't believe setting the lines constitutes a "plan"

 

[al secord]

Legendary Koala

 

[Dekes For Days]

If your point is that even great coaches can have bad games, then yes, that proves they can.
But the point I thought I was pretty clearly making is that if you're a Bolts fan you can more easily shake off game 1 last year as a one-off given the team's very recent success; Cooper and his team have shown in the past they can shake off a bad game and still win the series, Keefe and the Leafs have not.

Sure, maybe fans can shake it off easier. But that doesn't change what it means. And the statements that were being made were attaching meaning to that occurrence, while claiming that it was irrelevant for everybody else that occurrence happens to (including ones that don't have that past success that apparently gave them a free garbage game card). That's a double standard.

There are valid arguments against some of Keefe's decisions, but saying that Keefe is a garbage coach and the proof is that the Leafs lost game 1 badly is really just exposing a lack of actual argument. Good and bad coaches have big losses in the playoffs. And this team has actually shown a good ability to bounce back after bad losses. Who wins the series is still yet to be decided.

 

[supermann_98]

If we lose tonight I would like to see him fired and replaced with one of his assistants for game 3, however unrealistic that may be. He can take Holl with him

 

[BraveCanadian]

To me he out-coaches himself. When you have the horses the Leafs have, you let them run. It isn't complicated.

 

[Stephen]

To me he out-coaches himself. When you have the horses the Leafs have, you let them run. It isn't complicated.

He got head faked into putting his horses back into the barn the first couple shifts of the game because boogey man Anthony “Don’t Call Me Tony” Cirelli was out vs Matthews and Marner.

He didn’t give his guys the chance to run over the opposition or play hockey. Just coaching in fear like Cirelli had already been shutting his guys down over a few games in a series. How do we even know if Cirelli is up to the task? Why wasn’t our 6’3” franchise center trusted to turn Cirelli into a veal chop with repeated physical wear and tear, corner battles, full tilt driving to the net, skated into the ground?

It’s like monkey with a type writer tactics hoping to come up with a coherent line.

 

[Atomos2]

With the players he has available, and to lose in that way in game 1. Disgusting. He has been gifted every opportunity to succeed.

 

[egd27]

He got head faked into putting his horses back into the barn the first couple shifts of the game because boogey man Anthony “Don’t Call Me Tony” Cirelli was out vs Matthews and Marner.

He didn’t give his guys the chance to run over the opposition or play hockey.

The Leafs are at home in the first game of the playoffs with a pumped up crowd.
They badly need to shake of the moniker of playoff chokers
They should be essentially saying "ok TBL, you had a good run, but it ends now" by going on the attack and putting them on their heels

Keefe's strategy: Leave the reigning Rocket and MVP winner and his 99 point wingman on the bench, and start arguably the 2 slowest forwards on the roster.
And then to top it off when Cooper throws his 4th line onto the ice against our #1 line, Keefe pulls them and puts out our 4th.

1-0 TBL 90 secs in. crowd dead, and who knows what's going on in the player's psyches

It defies logic

 

[BraveCanadian]

He got head faked into putting his horses back into the barn the first couple shifts of the game because boogey man Anthony “Don’t Call Me Tony” Cirelli was out vs Matthews and Marner.

He didn’t give his guys the chance to run over the opposition or play hockey. Just coaching in fear like Cirelli had already been shutting his guys down over a few games in a series. How do we even know if Cirelli is up to the task? Why wasn’t our 6’3” franchise center trusted to turn Cirelli into a veal chop with repeated physical wear and tear, corner battles, full tilt driving to the net, skated into the ground?

It’s like monkey with a type writer tactics hoping to come up with a coherent line.

Yeah to me that whole sequence sends the message that we don't think our top guys can beat them... whereas the correct message would be "Let's see if you can stop Matthews and Marner".

Matthews and Marner are both good enough two-ways that their line can play power-on-power against almost any line in the league and win.. so let the opposition worry about them instead of trying to get them away from matchups.

The Leafs finally have the depth to let secondary scoring run wild if teams hard match their best players against M&M.

But what do I know, I'm just a random guy on the internet.

 

[ACC1224]

The Leafs are at home in the first game of the playoffs with a pumped up crowd.
They badly need to shake of the moniker of playoff chokers
They should be essentially saying "ok TBL, you had a good run, but it ends now" by going on the attack and putting them on their heels

Keefe's strategy: Leave the reigning Rocket and MVP winner and his 99 point wingman on the bench, and start arguably the 2 slowest forwards on the roster.
And then to top it off when Cooper throws his 4th line onto the ice against our #1 line, Keefe pulls them and puts out our 4th.

1-0 TBL 90 secs in. crowd dead, and who knows what's going on in the player's psyches

It defies logic

McCauley was reffing though.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He got head faked into putting his horses back into the barn the first couple shifts of the game because boogey man Anthony “Don’t Call Me Tony” Cirelli was out vs Matthews and Marner.

He didn’t give his guys the chance to run over the opposition or play hockey. Just coaching in fear like Cirelli had already been shutting his guys down over a few games in a series. How do we even know if Cirelli is up to the task? Why wasn’t our 6’3” franchise center trusted to turn Cirelli into a veal chop with repeated physical wear and tear, corner battles, full tilt driving to the net, skated into the ground?

It’s like monkey with a type writer tactics hoping to come up with a coherent line.

Especially after talking a big game about not being afraid to put Matthews/Marner out there against anyone, just pure nervous energy. He can play Matthews/Tavares/RoR/Kampf on 4 separate lines, what's he so afraid of? Other coaches would kill for this level of center depth

 

[Stephen]

Yeah to me that whole sequence sends the message that we don't think our top guys can beat them... whereas the correct message would be "Let's see if you can stop Matthews and Marner".

Matthews and Marner are both good enough two-ways that their line can play power-on-power against almost any line in the league and win.. so let the opposition worry about them instead of trying to get them away from matchups.

The Leafs finally have the depth to let secondary scoring run wild if teams hard match their best players against M&M.

But what do I know, I'm just a random guy on the internet.

The way the Leafs have evolved since 2020 vs Columbus, I feel like the underlying message the organization sends out about its Big 4 is they love them unconditionally but don’t necessarily “believe” in them.

They support them like anxious parents trying to nerf and protect. The constant importing of leadership and personality and babysitting and two way players. The talk about lack of killer instinct. How they get so quiet on the bench, these Thornton and Foligno and O’Reilly big brother types.

When they brought in O’Reilly they had him at center to take Tavares’ job. They had him to start. They start Kampf on OT FO’s all the time.

When do you just let your core guys run wild? How was Matthews playing less than Babcock was giving him in his early seasons? Who cares about special teams. Get him out there and leave him out there.

 

[Stephen]

Especially after talking a big game about not being afraid to put Matthews/Marner out there against anyone, just pure nervous energy. He can play Matthews/Tavares/RoR/Kampf on 4 separate lines, what's he so afraid of? Other coaches would kill for this level of center depth

When Paul MacLean talked about all the ghosts in the room, it may as well be Sheldon Keefe’s nervousness that he was alluding to.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

When Paul MacLean talked about all the ghosts in the room, it may as well be Sheldon Keefe’s nervousness that he was alluding to.

I think he does more harm than good with his motivation tactics. He's either way too casual (calling game 1 "just another game") or just going nuts with emotion. He needs to raise the team's energy to an appropriate level and ensure that every player is confident with their role within the team's structure. It's embarrassing to listen to him talk about winning an OT game against Montreal and being immortalized, and the team clearly didn't respond. He's not an action hero, he's supposed to be a hockey coach

 

[IPS]

The way the Leafs have evolved since 2020 vs Columbus, I feel like the underlying message the organization sends out about its Big 4 is they love them unconditionally but don’t necessarily “believe” in them.

They support them like anxious parents trying to nerf and protect. The constant importing of leadership and personality and babysitting and two way players. The talk about lack of killer instinct. How they get so quiet on the bench, these Thornton and Foligno and O’Reilly big brother types.

When they brought in O’Reilly they had him at center to take Tavares’ job. They had him to start. They start Kampf on OT FO’s all the time.

When do you just let your core guys run wild? How was Matthews playing less than Babcock was giving him in his early seasons? Who cares about special teams. Get him out there and leave him out there.

You can put Matthews out there a lot but most of the time in the playoffs he's not dominating play like he should. Draisaitl in period 1 last night looked like prime Crosby against LA. Never seen that gear from Matthews yet.

 

[Stephen]

I think he does more harm than good with his motivation tactics. He's either way too casual (calling game 1 "just another game") or just going nuts with emotion. He needs to raise the team's energy to an appropriate level and ensure that every player is confident with their role within the team's structure. It's embarrassing to listen to him talk about winning an OT game against Montreal and being immortalized, and the team clearly didn't respond. He's not an action hero, he's supposed to be a hockey coach

Keefe’s mind game tactics are very rudimentary. It’s either reassurance or panic, positive reinforcement without the poking, prodding. Mostly carrot, not a lot of stick. Always trying to maintain a level of psychological comfort when you shouldn’t be comfortable.

No wonder the team comes out so flat at times. He just doesn’t know how to build that good productive anxiety, focus it into urgency in the big moments that carry you through the stage fright.

 

[TakeTheBody]

I like Dubas more than Keefe. IF the Leafs lose to the Bolts again at least one of them will go. Dubas will throw Keefe under the bus fast to save his own job. Hoping that doesn't happen. I voted no.