Do you think we should try the Swedes in top 4 roles to start 22 - 23 season?

[zeke]

Big question for me is whether Mo can play the right side permanently or not. I'm pretty sure I saw him playing plenty of right side this year and during the playoffs....and doing it well. In fact, his worst turnstiles all came while playing on the left so I'm not sure he'd be any worse in that department on the right.

If he can, then that let's us stick with the excellent Muzz-Brodie shutdown matchup pairing getting all the dzone starts and then hook up Gio-Mo together on a more offensive top-4 pairing getting all the ozone starts.

And then of course let Ras-Lilly reprise their role as one of the best bottom pairings in hockey again, except this time even better with more experience. And then of course they're right there ready to step in when any of the vets get injured.

 

[notbias]

Tampa going to the finals for a 3rd consecutive year with a top 4 of Hedman 6'6" 241, McDonagh 6'1" 215, Sergachev 6'3" 216 and Cernak 6'3" 230.

Rielly 6'1" 220, Brodie 6'1" 179, Lily 6'1" 192, and Sandin 5'11" 178.

One team wins cups, the other loses in round #1. Willing to bet the solution is not to get smaller, lighter and softer on D.

now do Colorado

 

[ToneDog]

now do Colorado

see post #35 and the subsequent responses.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Tampa going to the finals for a 3rd consecutive year with a top 4 of Hedman 6'6" 241, McDonagh 6'1" 215, Sergachev 6'3" 216 and Cernak 6'3" 230.

Rielly 6'1" 220, Brodie 6'1" 179, Lily 6'1" 192, and Sandin 5'11" 178.

One team wins cups, the other loses in round #1. Willing to bet the solution is not to get smaller, lighter and softer on D.

Brodie can't actually be 179 can he? That's crazy.....

 

[Bluelines]

I feel like we should better assess them before we make an attempt to improve the blueline I personally feel like they both will take big steps next season (especially if Sandin can add some muscle)I feel they will be our future top pair and maybe much sooner than people think which is the best way for our blueline to improve everyone else on it is either on a decline or just stagnant

Sandin is too inconsistent to be a top 4 dman, his foot speed is below NHL level but has great offensive instincts. He needs to be in a role where he can play sheltered minutes, with a stay at home defender. Lily looks like he's found a partner in Gio, with Gio he looks like a top 4 defender, without Gio he looks like a 7th or 8th dman.

 

[justashadowof]

I think the defensemen paid to be top 4 should be in the team's top 4 first and foremost until such time that they're being outperformed by one of the two Swedish defenders. There is a spot on the right side in the top 4 for the taking for Liljegren and he did a lot to make a case for that role in 2021-22.

I still think that the least of the Leafs' issues are its defense group. It could be improved, as every team's defense could be improved, but my opinion is that it is good enough to win playoff rounds. The off-season focus should be the goaltending and improving the forward group for spring hockey.

 

[arso40]

Sandin is too inconsistent to be a top 4 dman, his foot speed is below NHL level but has great offensive instincts. He needs to be in a role where he can play sheltered minutes, with a stay at home defender. Lily looks like he's found a partner in Gio, with Gio he looks like a top 4 defender, without Gio he looks like a 7th or 8th dman.

Sounds more like rie To me minus the foot speed of course which is a bit exaggerated and your assessment of lily is ridiculously off

 

[horner]

Tampa going to the finals for a 3rd consecutive year with a top 4 of Hedman 6'6" 241, McDonagh 6'1" 215, Sergachev 6'3" 216 and Cernak 6'3" 230.

Rielly 6'1" 220, Brodie 6'1" 179, Lily 6'1" 192, and Sandin 5'11" 178.

One team wins cups, the other loses in round #1. Willing to bet the solution is not to get smaller, lighter and softer on D.

TB defense is tough as nails and dirty.
They pretty much keep everything to the perimeter.
Totally different team than we played
They block everything even the forwards.

Hopefully Dubas learned something from them

 

[Trapper]

Can these guys play, contribute and help make a difference? If so I want them. If not, find the first part.

 

[Beaumaris]

Leafs outplayed TB.

Lol! A lot of good that done us.

 

[Bluelines]

Sounds more like rie To me minus the foot speed of course which is a bit exaggerated and your assessment of lily is ridiculously off

Remind me again what Dman sat so Holl could play?

 

[notbias]

TB defense is tough as nails and dirty.
They pretty much keep everything to the perimeter.
Totally different team than we played
They block everything even the forwards.

Hopefully Dubas learned something from them

Yep Tampa blocks so many shots they almost had as many blocked shots as us in our series, we should learn from them.

Tampa's biggest strength is they have the best defenseman in the league and the best goalie.

Hedman does what Rielly does and drags around a #4 on the top pairing, he just does it better.

Having McDonagh on your second pairing is not too bad either, other than that, their D is probably pretty replaceable.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think Sandin will get traded.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Because despite what people try to say on here our prospect pool is absolutely trash



Possibly but they had a backup for the last series as well. I will say they made some outstanding deadline pick ups and naz not getting suspended helps

The prospect pool absolutely is NOT trash. You can't just write off prospects showing promise who were drafted late in the first round and beyond in less than 4 years. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Remind me again what Dman sat so Holl could play?

What a load of crock. Lilly's stats and analytics were best among dmen on the team no matter who he played with. Not his fault Keefe is a full on dumbass with his line-up.

 

[stickty111]

Because despite what people try to say on here our prospect pool is absolutely trash



Possibly but they had a backup for the last series as well. I will say they made some outstanding deadline pick ups and naz not getting suspended helps

Incorrect. So despite what even scouting people say, it's still trash? Leafs pool is very underrated. Nice try though.

 

[CelticDruid]

I think it's fair to say every defenseman struggles at times and the number of catastrophic breakdowns you have is what makes you ok good or great, I'm putting Brodie in the good to sub great category. I don't really agree that he struggles 'quite a bit' though.

Brodie is another soft D that can't box out the opposition.

Perfect example being the 2nd goal scored by TB in game 7.

Over the last half of the season he seemed to be struggling with numerous boneheaded gaffes.

 

[tmlms13]

They won't be to start the year but will be by the end of the year.

Kind of like how Manoah with the Jays started the year as the #3 starter and ended the year as #1.

 

[Bluelines]

What a load of crock. Lilly's stats and analytics were best among dmen on the team no matter who he played with. Not his fault Keefe is a full on dumbass with his line-up.

He played sheltered 3rd pairing minutes, good for him...

Lilly delivered so many yummie free pizza's to the other team, his teammates called him Domino Delivery... Lilly was a give away machine. Yes when you give the puck away against easy competition, Keefe should have logically though, I should give the kid harder minutes. It's all Keefes fault ...

 

[saltming]

Brodie is another soft D that can't box out the opposition.

Perfect example being the 2nd goal scored by TB in game 7.

Over the last half of the season he seemed to be struggling with numerous boneheaded gaffes.

Like I said everyone makes mistakes but overall he does a good job.
Seems to box out well just struggles if he doesn't have the position first, again a normal thing unless you're a beast like Chara, Hedman or a prime weber

 

[Canada4Gold]

Maybe not to some of the experts in here that follow the prospects closely but a couple playoffs ago when Sandin was QBing the PP like an elite dman, coupled with the stats in his first years with the Marlies, his stock was pretty high.

That's since changed of course.

A big part of that was shiny new toy syndrome and stat scouting syndrome. Liljegren was always better defensively but that doesn't show up unless you're watching.

I would say realistically they were probably even. Wouldn't fault anyone for liking either guy a bit more. Liljegren is a year older and had more time this year and played fairly well so it's more reasonable to think he should be a top 4 guy this year. With Sandin being younger and having being injured for a chunk of last year you can't rely on him being that yet but he needs to get a long look on the bottom pair.

 

[borjesalming]

Top pair is a stretch but future top 4 no doubt.

I have no idea why Liljegren wasn't used in place of Holl in the last 3 games of the series with Tampa. He's the better d man.

He cannot clear the front of the Leafs net.

 

[arso40]

He cannot clear the front of the Leafs net.

Why it’s top pair a stretch he’s still a kid and if he keeps improving at this pace he will be our best defencemen and by a wide enough margin that it won’t be questionable.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Sandin is too inconsistent to be a top 4 dman, his foot speed is below NHL level but has great offensive instincts. He needs to be in a role where he can play sheltered minutes, with a stay at home defender. Lily looks like he's found a partner in Gio, with Gio he looks like a top 4 defender, without Gio he looks like a 7th or 8th dman.

Actually Liljegren had similar results with most of the other partners he played with this year, he just wasn't getting .800 SV% goaltending behind him when he played with Gio.

In terms of limiting chances and limiting high danger chances he was just as good or better with other partners.

He cannot clear the front of the Leafs net.

That's a myth. He limited chances in that area better than most guys do. horrendous goaltending made him look bad at times, but Liljegren is great at keeping traffic away from the front of the net.

 

[Bluelines]

Actually Liljegren had similar results with most of the other partners he played with this year, he just wasn't getting .800 SV% goaltending behind him when he played with Gio.

In terms of limiting chances and limiting high danger chances he was just as good or better with other partners.


That's a myth. He limited chances in that area better than most guys do. horrendous goaltending made him look bad at times, but Liljegren is great at keeping traffic away from the front of the net.

Absolutely not true, Lilly threw so many free yummy pizza's into high danger spots without Gio, the only way you can describe it is he was playing for the other team. I distinctly remember one play where he actually skated himself into a corner, thinking there was an attacker, hit the boards, fell down and recovered when he realized the other team was doing a line change. The guy panicked A LOT and did needless panic-y plays, like under pressure ... throw the puck away, think your under pressure .. fall down, under pressure ... lose 50/50 battles. In every sense of the word he looked like a rookie until Gio came along. BTW if the skaters in front of the goalie are doing their job, aka if Lilly is doing his job... fans wont need to blame goalies for the defenders poor play.