Do you think we should try the Swedes in top 4 roles to start 22 - 23 season?

[Maplebeasts]

He played sheltered 3rd pairing minutes, good for him...

Lilly delivered so many yummie free pizza's to the other team, his teammates called him Domino Delivery... Lilly was a give away machine. Yes when you give the puck away against easy competition, Keefe should have logically though, I should give the kid harder minutes. It's all Keefes fault ...

Yeah now I know you didn't watch many Leafs games this year. Literally everything here is wrong and there aren't any stats that back it up.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

And still lost. You can hang on to that thinking but IMO this version of Tampa is much better than the one the Leafs played. I do give Leafs credit for taking them to the brink but Tampa recovered when they had to and when it counted, they outscored us 4-1.

I agree with this to a point, but if you're going to take that premise, imagine how well the Leafs might have played into the Cup Finals if only they could only get that monkey off their back of winning one damn playoff series. You're right though, we still have to give the Leafs credit for how they played in that first round. They were one bad call, and two boneheaded penalties from actually showing us. I will never forgive Kerfoot for that stupidity.

 

[stickty111]

Yeah now I know you didn't watch many Leafs games this year. Literally everything here is wrong and there aren't any stats that back it up.

Not really a surprise for that user

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Absolutely not true, Lilly threw so many free yummy pizza's into high danger spots without Gio, the only way you can describe it is he was playing for the other team. I distinctly remember one play where he actually skated himself into a corner, thinking there was an attacker, hit the boards, fell down and recovered when he realized the other team was doing a line change. The guy panicked A LOT and did needless panic-y plays, like under pressure ... throw the puck away, think your under pressure .. fall down, under pressure ... lose 50/50 battles. In every sense of the word he looked like a rookie until Gio came along. BTW if the skaters in front of the goalie are doing their job, aka if Lilly is doing his job... fans wont need to blame goalies for the defenders poor play.

Every player makes some mistakes, but Liljegren played nothing like what you are describing and the numbers show that.

We were one of the best teams in the league at limiting shots/chances/high danger chances yet our goaltending was absolutely terrible for 3 months. It was borderline ECHL goaltender level with Mrazek for a bit there.

We weren't stopping nearly enough of the low danger shots for a ridiculously long time and the goaltending coach was correctly fired because of that.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Not really a surprise for that user

You gotta appreciate the confidence despite being so, so incredibly wrong though.

 

[Bluelines]

Yeah now I know you didn't watch many Leafs games this year. Literally everything here is wrong and there aren't any stats that back it up.

Which one do you have objection with the third pairing minutes? The 16:24 ATOI that puts him at 8th among dmen on the Leafs, ATOI is a stat is it not? Giveaways are stats eh? his 43 give away's which is one less than Muz who plays significantly harder minutes with almost 4 min of ATOI less than Muzz... Giveaways are a stat are they not? Lookie there ... whaddaya know .... looks like there are stats that back up that statement ....

 

[Maplebeasts]

Which one do you have objection with the third pairing minutes? The 16:24 ATOI that puts him at 8th among dmen on the Leafs, ATOI is a stat is it not? Giveaways are stats eh? his 43 give away's which is one less than Muz who plays significantly harder minutes with almost 4 min of ATOI less than Muzz... Giveaways are a stat are they not? Lookie there ... whaddaya know .... looks like there are stats that back up that statement ....

Here's some more that you conveniently ignored. At 5 on 5 he was: 1st in xGa/60, 2nd in A/60, 2nd in points/60, 1st in GF%, led the team in relative GF% and xGF%, 1st in corsi, 1st in fenwick, and was the only defenseman on the team that put up these kinds of results while paired with Rielly. Sandin couldn't replicate his success when he was moved up the line-up and Brodie didn't have nearly the same results even when he was paired with Rielly. Liljegren was also one of only 2 defenseman (the other being Mcavoy) in the NHL to be on 3 pairings in the NHL's top 20 by xGF% with a minimum TOI of 100 minutes or more. So yeah the stats make it seem like you're just spewing a lot of bullshit.

 

[Bluelines]

Here's some more that you conveniently ignored. At 5 on 5 he was: 1st in xGa/60, 2nd in A/60, 2nd in points/60, 1st in GF%, led the team in relative GF% and xGF%, 1st in corsi, 1st in fenwick, and was the only defenseman on the team that put up these kinds of results while paired with Rielly. Sandin couldn't replicate his success when he was moved up the line-up and Brodie didn't have nearly the same results even when he was paired with Rielly. Liljegren was also one of only 2 defenseman (the other being Mcavoy) in the NHL to be on 3 pairings in the NHL's top 20 by xGF% with a minimum TOI of 100 minutes or more. So yeah the stats make it seem like you're just spewing a lot of bullshit.

I wonder why if he's so great and right handed shot he didn't get 1st pairing minutes if the stats tell you he;s the next coming of Bobby Orr, I mean we've been looking for a guy to take that RD for years... theres a word for that.... um ... ahh ... ummm ... oh I got it CONTEXT..... these armchair analyst ..I gots numbers... numbers ... FFS some people...

Right absolutely Lily is a better defender than Brodie... for sure ... absolutely .... yep ..100% ..so true..

So what we know about NHL coaches when they find a guy that according to you is #1 in virtually every important metric ... they drop him down to 3rd pairing, then bench him during the playoffs because ya know they dont want to win. They prefer to play players who are less skilled ... thats a well known approach by every coach in the league. You know what else NHL coaches have ... a complete freaking analytic department, with millions invested into programs, that feed contextualized information to the MULTIPLE coaches so they can deploy the best line up possible ... but yeah your fan stats trump what I witnessed and how the team reacted & deployed Lilly.... the arrogance of some people is unreal. It's pretty clear you don't understand jack.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I wonder why if he's so great and right handed shot he didn't get 1st pairing minutes if the stats tell you he;s the next coming of Bobby Orr, I mean we've been looking for a guy to take that RD for years... theres a word for that.... um ... ahh ... ummm ... oh I got it CONTEXT..... these armchair analyst ..I gots numbers... numbers ... FFS some people...

Right absolutely Lily is a better defender than Brodie... for sure ... absolutely .... yep ..100% ..so true..

So what we know about NHL coaches when they find a guy that according to you is #1 in virtually every important metric ... they drop him down to 3rd pairing, then bench him during the playoffs because ya know they dont want to win. They prefer to play players who are less skilled ... thats a well known approach by every coach in the league. You know what else NHL coaches have ... a complete freaking analytic department, with millions invested into programs, that feed contextualized information to the MULTIPLE coaches so they can deploy the best line up possible ... but yeah your fan stats trump what I witnessed and how the team reacted & deployed Lilly.... the arrogance of some people is unreal. It's pretty clear you don't understand jack.

I don't really care what you thought of him; Your lack of understanding is pretty apparent. Keefe ain't infallible. He's just a guy who is perfectly capable of making stupid decisions, like playing Lyubushkin in the playoffs despite getting dunked on on a nightly basis. This coming season Liljegren's going to be in our top 4 easily by Christmas.

 

[Bluelines]

I don't really care what you thought of him; Your lack of understanding is pretty apparent. Keefe ain't infallible. He's just a guy who is perfectly capable of making stupid decisions, like playing Lyubushkin in the playoffs despite getting dunked on on a nightly basis. This coming season Liljegren's going to be in our top 4 easily by Christmas.

Sure, lets go with Keefe makes all the decisions independently and forget that there are seven other coaches and a complete team of advance analytics nerds + nine pro scouts scouts that influence the roster everyday ... for a guy that likes to miss use advance stats you sure have an old timey view of how a roster is built... I agree with you, now that Gio is playing with Lilly, Lilly is goign to "look" like a top four defender, cross fingers Gio does not get hurt ... amirite? ..

 

[PROUD PAPA]

For Swedes in the top 4 i'd go with Lil. If Sandin can improve his acceleration and top end speed and combine it with his overall high hockey IQ and keen offensive instincts and ability he would be my choice.
I thought Liljegren improved enough in his last 25-30 games to earn himself a shot in the top 4 with a bit of leash while he makes the adjustment.
Barring some rash of injuries or eye popping improvement from both i don't see much chance of them taking 2 spots.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Sure, lets go with Keefe makes all the decisions independently and forget that there are seven other coaches and a complete team of advance analytics nerds + nine pro scouts scouts that influence the roster everyday ... for a guy that likes to miss use advance stats you sure have an old timey view of how a roster is built... I agree with you, now that Gio is playing with Lilly, Lilly is goign to "look" like a top four defender, cross fingers Gio does not get hurt ... amirite? ..

I didn't misuse any of those stats. What on Earth?

 

[stickty111]

I didn't misuse any of those stats. What on Earth?

What a surprise. You prove your point with stats and facts but those don't count now. Welcome to HF. It's cute he is telling you that you are misusing stats, yet points to one of the most misused stats in giveaways

 

[stickty111]

Sure, lets go with Keefe makes all the decisions independently and forget that there are seven other coaches and a complete team of advance analytics nerds + nine pro scouts scouts that influence the roster everyday ... for a guy that likes to miss use advance stats you sure have an old timey view of how a roster is built... I agree with you, now that Gio is playing with Lilly, Lilly is goign to "look" like a top four defender, cross fingers Gio does not get hurt ... amirite? ..

Get proven wrong and resort to ranting. Also resorting to baiting means you lost the argument.
Looks like Kadri isn't the worst player in NHL history after all

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Liljegren is a stud.

Sandin can go.

 

[BigBlu]

All Sandin needs is a few anabolic steroids.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

We need to find a way to add size to our defensive core.

I honestly don't get how we can look at the impact Tampa's defenders have on forwards in the playoffs, and think we can get by with a bunch of marshmallows and old men in our defence core. I just don't get the plan for success here.

 

[Bluelines]

I didn't misuse any of those stats. What on Earth?

Claiming Lilly is #1 or #2 in a bunch of stats and using those stats to say he better than Brodie, without putting those stats in context... ya kinda claimed he is our best or 2nd best defender, so yeah ya kinda did...

We need to find a way to add size to our defensive core.

I honestly don't get how we can look at the impact Tampa's defenders have on forwards in the playoffs, and think we can get by with a bunch of marshmallows and old men in our defence core. I just don't get the plan for success here.

Size with either good defensive IQ or size with speed.

All Sandin needs is a few anabolic steroids.

..and a jet pack... dudes footwork is below AHL level, he thinks at a NHL level but is as slow as Maple Syrup going down hill in a snowstorm.

 

[Bluelines]

Get proven wrong and resort to ranting. Also resorting to baiting means you lost the argument.
Looks like Kadri isn't the worst player in NHL history after all

LOL coming for a guy that posted this bait post, you're incredibly unaware of yourself. Outlining that lineup decisions are not solely at the hands of the head Coach, is not ranting but educational for our less informed forum poster. How you can take it any other way is TBH sadly weird.

Not really a surprise for that user

 

[ponder]

All Sandin needs is a few anabolic steroids.

He’s actually pretty strong for his size, stocky kid, and obviously very smart and skilled. His main weakness is that he’s slow. If he can get his skating (specifically speed) up to NHL average, he’ll be a very good dman.

 

[RoadWarrior]

He cannot clear the front of the Leafs net.

Neither can Holl.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't really care what you thought of him; Your lack of understanding is pretty apparent. Keefe ain't infallible. He's just a guy who is perfectly capable of making stupid decisions, like playing Lyubushkin in the playoffs despite getting dunked on on a nightly basis. This coming season Liljegren's going to be in our top 4 easily by Christmas.

Amazing that anyone would think he is. If someone's going to do the "appeal to authority" thing, I would hope they'd have someone more impressive than Keefe to refer to when they do.

 

[mydnyte]

If Liljegren isn't playing top 4 beside Gio, there is a big problem.

Sandin might still need to find a fit

well, Gio isnt playing in the top 4, so, there is that too.
Sandin doesnt even have a spot on the left side, unless Muzzin gets dealt/hurt and he SUCKS on the right side, so, i hope that isnt even considered.

 

[mydnyte]

I may be in the minority, but, i'd try my hardest to unload Holl, Muzzin and Brodie, and maybe Sandin and redo the defense.
try to bring in Klingberg and Chiarot
balanced pairs
Reily - Chiarot
Zadorov - Klingberg
Gio - Lily

specialty pairs
Reilly - Klingberg
Zadorov - Chiarot
Gio - Lily

Klingberg would likely be pricey, but, Cia, and Zadorov not as much, and with Muz, Brodie and Holl out, enough $$ to cover

I think a Zadorov - Chia could clear the net pretty well, and add a physical dimension the Leafs havent had in ages

 

[LeafEgo]

I may be in the minority, but, i'd try my hardest to unload Holl, Muzzin and Brodie, and maybe Sandin and redo the defense.
try to bring in Klingberg and Chiarot
balanced pairs
Reily - Chiarot
Zadorov - Klingberg
Gio - Lily

specialty pairs
Reilly - Klingberg
Zadorov - Chiarot
Gio - Lily

Klingberg would likely be pricey, but, Cia, and Zadorov not as much, and with Muz, Brodie and Holl out, enough $$ to cover

I think a Zadorov - Chia could clear the net pretty well, and add a physical dimension the Leafs havent had in ages

It would be a bit strange to move out half the defenceman after rebuilding the back end and with other priorities to sort out.

If they just land a right handed D man with size that can play top minutes with Rielly they are all set. Ideally, one stronger than Chiarot.