Do you think we should try the Swedes in top 4 roles to start 22 - 23 season?

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I honestly do not get their previous play off struggles while undersized they have 3 or 4 of the best defensemen in the world in addition to great offensive talent

Shows how difficult it is to win
Add to that their three offensive stars are all pretty physical and gritty - how fortunate.

Maybe a testament to securing the goalie position and getting that size/strength on the blueline right.
 
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I think Sandin is being heavily underrated I remember he was our best prospect on the backend…..

Because despite what people try to say on here our prospect pool is absolutely trash

Add to that their three offensive stars are all pretty physical and gritty - how fortunate.

Maybe a testament to securing the goalie position and getting that size/strength on the blueline right.

Possibly but they had a backup for the last series as well. I will say they made some outstanding deadline pick ups and naz not getting suspended helps
 
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I think you are under stating your last point here. In combat sports weight classes can be as little as 5lbs to make things fair.

Acknowledging that there are exceptions, I think generally speaking the Leafs need to get bigger on the back end before they get smaller.
Weight classes in fight sports started maybe a hundred years ago in boxing, other material arts it was more recent and the ufc didn't have them until the early 90's.
That said it's only found in mainstream fighting as they need regulatory mandates to get insurance and be 'proffessional'.
Underground fighting a wound the world has no such restrictions.
Size usually comes with strength, but not always and strength is more important than size Imo.
We can look at Luke Schenn. Kid bulked up like mad and declined in effectiveness. As he aged and got stronger he once again became a serviceable defenseman
 
Give both of them an opportunity, if they take it that's awesome, if not slot them into somewhere they are more suited to at this point in there careers
 
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Weight classes in fight sports started maybe a hundred years ago in boxing, other material arts it was more recent and the ufc didn't have them until the early 90's.
That said it's only found in mainstream fighting as they need regulatory mandates to get insurance and be 'proffessional'.
Underground fighting a wound the world has no such restrictions.
Size usually comes with strength, but not always and strength is more important than size Imo.
We can look at Luke Schenn. Kid bulked up like mad and declined in effectiveness. As he aged and got stronger he once again became a serviceable defenseman
Fair enough, I was thinking more along the lines of olympic wrestling, but tying back to the thread I dont think a top 4 of Reilly, Brodie, Lily, and Sandin gives you the strength or size that is needed for reliable competitiveness in the playoffs.

I'm just an armchair GM but looking recent top performers and appreciating the physicality of the playoffs I think we should be trying to go the other way here.
 
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Fair enough, I was thinking more along the lines of olympic wrestling, but tying back to the thread I dont think a top 4 of Reilly, Brodie, Lily, and Sandin gives you the strength or size that is needed for reliable competitiveness in the playoffs.

I'm just an armchair GM but looking recent top performers and appreciating the physicality of the playoffs I think we should be trying to go the other way here.
For all I'm saying I'm agreeing that we need to be stronger on the back end.
My argument for Brodie is that he never seems to struggle with bigger forwards, Rielly is pretty Damn strong and big enough, lili is coming along and atm he's not bad strength wise and I do like his physicality. Sandin I have always said he needs to get stronger before he can play solid NHL minutes
A top 4 of Rielly Muzzin Brodie liljegren puts 2 guys over 200lbs and 2 under, and I think Lilli is around the marker if not a bit over.
I like our combo of strength and skill but always looking to improve. If we could get bigger and stronger while maintaining the skill level, we would be lethal as is I feel like we were let down but the net minder and not the players. We played Tb better than any other opponent thus far.
As for what's going on now in the playoffs, makar is a little guy but excelling and the avs defense is not that big, Tb has a big d corps so we will see what the finals bring.
 
Rielly Liljegren
Muzzin Brodie
Giordano Holl
Sandin

No point in trading guys away now only to spends assets at the deadline to get a top 4 dman.

Keep the 7 bc injuries happen.
Being a 7th Dman sounds great for Sandin’s development. I think one of Muzzin or Sandin should get traded.
 
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Ya I know but I don't believe they are accurate. I've felt this way for a while.
I could be wrong but Lilli spicfically has bulked up since he was drafted.
That said size IMHO is not as important as strength and smarts when it comes to defending hence the primary reasons I think Tim is better than holl then add he has better tools than Holl and it seems a no brainer
There's a photo floating around of Lilly while working out, kids jacked low body fat, Sandman needs to learn from that!!
 
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There's a photo floating around of Lilly while working out, kids jacked low body fat, Sandman needs to learn from that!!
Lilly is gonna be a full timer next year. He was probably the happiest of anyone when Giordano resigned. Those two just complement eachothers games so well, and play really safe minutes. I expect to see Liljegren play close to all 82 this season (health permitting)
 
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For all I'm saying I'm agreeing that we need to be stronger on the back end.
My argument for Brodie is that he never seems to struggle with bigger forwards, Rielly is pretty Damn strong and big enough, lili is coming along and atm he's not bad strength wise and I do like his physicality. Sandin I have always said he needs to get stronger before he can play solid NHL minutes
A top 4 of Rielly Muzzin Brodie liljegren puts 2 guys over 200lbs and 2 under, and I think Lilli is around the marker if not a bit over.
I like our combo of strength and skill but always looking to improve. If we could get bigger and stronger while maintaining the skill level, we would be lethal as is I feel like we were let down but the net minder and not the players. We played Tb better than any other opponent thus far.
As for what's going on now in the playoffs, makar is a little guy but excelling and the avs defense is not that big, Tb has a big d corps so we will see what the finals bring.

I actually think Brodie struggles quite a bit with heavier defensemen, but it isn't always a catastrophic breakdown that leads to a goal.
 
I actually think Brodie struggles quite a bit with heavier defensemen, but it isn't always a catastrophic breakdown that leads to a goal.
I think it's fair to say every defenseman struggles at times and the number of catastrophic breakdowns you have is what makes you ok good or great, I'm putting Brodie in the good to sub great category. I don't really agree that he struggles 'quite a bit' though.
 
I think it's fair to say every defenseman struggles at times and the number of catastrophic breakdowns you have is what makes you ok good or great, I'm putting Brodie in the good to sub great category. I don't really agree that he struggles 'quite a bit' though.

He was solid year one but got beat a lot when he couldn't apply the stick work formula this year. My trust in him isn't really that strong and I wouldn't mind cycling out Muzzin and Brodie over the next two summers.
 
He was solid year one but got beat a lot when he couldn't apply the stick work formula this year. My trust in him isn't really that strong and I wouldn't mind cycling out Muzzin and Brodie over the next two summers.
I see him keeping guys to the outside. Yes he has been walked, but every d man gets walked from time to time, but it's not a regular thing. He is far from a liability out there.
Muzzin I can see a good case to get rid of him in the near future but I'm just not slold that Brodie should be too
 
Hedman is on another level with his physical gifts. He's naturally just a giant and to a lessor extent sergachev, whom I love to death and would love him on this team.
If I were to list them
Hedman quite obviously
Rielly
Sergachev he's still young and might surpass Rielly but not yet imo
I feel Rielly has improved along the boards and in front of the net.
Brodie I have zero issues. I would also place him above sergachev atm because he plays very clean defense and seldom makes mistakes. Again the possibility is there for sergachev to pass with time and given his size and skills will be a stud d man for Tampa.
My choice would obviously be to have a top 4 of Hedman Rielly sergachev and Brodie hahahaha but to answer your question, I go with Hedman sergachev but that's because Hedman is another teir than we have and makes up for the difference of our 2 over sergachev.

To that I do agree that size and weight matter but I still put strength above it. Now naturally size usually equals strength but not always, hence my differentiation between them.

Sergachev would get crucified if he played here. He's everything Leaf fans claim to hate about Rielly. Worse offensively, but abhorrent in his own end and soft as F at times.

People fall in love with names and their own image of what the players are but they do not match reality often.
 
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Sergachev would get crucified if he played here. He's everything Leaf fans claim to hate about Rielly. Worse offensively, but abhorrent in his own end and soft as F at times.

People fall in love with names and their own image of what the players are but they do not match reality often.
Agreed he's worse offensively but he seems pretty stalwart in his own end. He needs seasoning as his decision making is a bit slow atm but I'm thinking he will put it together, but I am biased as I have always liked the kid from Jr days so I might be one of those people but I definitely don't rate him above Rielly or Brodie or Muzzin or Gio, but he is young and Imo has a bright future
 
I feel like this is obvious.

Lets assume we trade Holl

Rielly Brodie
Gio Lily
Sandin Muzzin

Now as I see it we have a 1rst pair and 2 2nd pairs. Both sets get about the same ice time. All four guys can pk (maybe not Sandin?) and 2nd PP. You give the younger guys bigger roles as they grow. If they can push Muzzin and Gio to the bottom pair so be it, if not they have time.

There is no urgency here. We can ease them up as they are ready.
 
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I feel like we should better assess them before we make an attempt to improve the blueline I personally feel like they both will take big steps next season (especially if Sandin can add some muscle)I feel they will be our future top pair and maybe much sooner than people think which is the best way for our blueline to improve everyone else on it is either on a decline or just stagnant
Sandin is not going to play in a top 4 role until he increases his foot speed by 20% .. for a very small man he can't fly .. other small man D in league can hit da gas .. Sandin can't .. and it is virtually impossible with his current stride to become fast enough to skate at an NHL level .. even in a bottom 6 role he still gets burned all da time .. we need to trade him asap in package for Jakob C .. so his value is really as a PP guy and we have Rielly already so it is a duplicate asset
 
Liljegren, for sure. He’s better than Holl, a clear top 2 RD for us.

Sandin, no. He’s a good player too, could be a 4D on a decent number of teams, but we’re too loaded at LD. Rielly, Gio, Muzzin all ahead of him IMO. I think we’ll trade one of Muzzin/Sandin/Holl … probably Muzzin for cap space and age reasons. But even still it would be:

Rielly - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren
Sandin - Holl

Then again, coming into this past season, I thought Sandin was significantly ahead of Lily, and would play a bigger role, but was wrong. So what do I know, I could easily be wrong :)
 
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Agreed he's worse offensively but he seems pretty stalwart in his own end. He needs seasoning as his decision making is a bit slow atm but I'm thinking he will put it together, but I am biased as I have always liked the kid from Jr days so I might be one of those people but I definitely don't rate him above Rielly or Brodie or Muzzin or Gio, but he is young and Imo has a bright future

Did you watch our playoff series? He had a Gardiner type series that got ignored because his team advanced.
 
If Liljegren isn't playing top 4 beside Gio, there is a big problem.

Sandin might still need to find a fit
I think Sandin is the odd man odd with the 3 left side vets. If there is another club who is a big fan I think he's gone. They can't really mothball him until Muzz and Gio are gone and and he doesn't make the club more likely to win next year as a #7. They keep him if there isn't strong interest but to me he looks like a piece they change out to maybe improve in goal or in the bottom 6.

If you want to add a player back who is cost controlled and not old it might help to offer a player who is also young with cost control. A top 4 RD with size and some grit rather than run Brodie-Bush-Lilly although I would love Bush as a 7 if they could afford him. Maybe a true #3 center because I am not sold that Kampf won't regress to his historical production and he may be elsewhere in 23-24 no matter what because that figures to be his last chance at a payday..
 
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Did you watch our playoff series? He had a Gardiner type series that got ignored because his team advanced.
I don't know man. I can't recall him being on the ice for a goal against. Def a quiet player.
There were times where he was rushed or in a jam but I don't recall any Gardiner level panic or miss-plays
 
I feel like this is obvious.

Lets assume we trade Holl

Rielly Brodie
Gio Lily
Sandin Muzzin

Now as I see it we have a 1rst pair and 2 2nd pairs. Both sets get about the same ice time. All four guys can pk (maybe not Sandin?) and 2nd PP. You give the younger guys bigger roles as they grow. If they can push Muzzin and Gio to the bottom pair so be it, if not they have time.

There is no urgency here. We can ease them up as they are ready.
Agreed. This is a solid blueline group. There's no reason to really overhaul here. Maybe just find a capable enough 7D, so that Muzzin/Brodie/Gio can get rotated out here and there for load management.
 

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