Do you believe in Dubas?

[FiveHoleo]

Just a Few Mistakes of Kyle Dubas:

Choosing Sparks over Mcbackup
Hutchinson as a backup goalie
Firing Babcock
Hiring Keefe
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Giving Matthews 11 million and getting no free agent years in return
Giving Marner 11 million at all regardless of term
Letting Gardner expire without moving him
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Opening the country club again by relaxing the rules for players
Trading Kapanen, Johnsson, Kadri, and Brown and only having Kerfoot to show for it
Letting Hymen walk
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Signing Ritchie
Trading a 1st round pick to move 1 year of Marleau's contract and allow for more bad deals
Not firing Keefe after he did nothing to remedy the playoff collapse to Montreal
Those glasses that make me want to punch him squarely in his stupid smug chart worshipping face

 

[57 Years No Cup]

rumor has it a team in the south was preparing to offer 12m x 7yrs

I see what you did there.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Oh really? Do we have a better defense or a better goalie?

Both.

 

[zeke]

Unfortunately, another poster had to accuse @Dreakmur of hoping Matthews leaves, rather than considering the point being made.

The point being made is what, exactly?

 

[notbias]

of course JT was offered 13/14m , just like Elliot reported a month after Mathews signed that the broke dick Yotes were going to offer the full 20% allowed and how Marner also said he was offered more , i still can't believe how underpaid our 11m dollar players are

JT met with Tampa not Dallas and the Nucks already have close to 30m tied up in 5 D , BB to sign but yea they were going to offer Rielly 9.5m because what they need is a home town kid to sell tickets , lol , also the chatter probably came form me posting that Van was going to offer him 10m on this forum when he signed , lol

Rielly's deal is more than fair , could he have gotten more if he sold himself like a ho to the highest bidder ? probably but that doesn't mean he was worth that price and gave us a discount .

so i'm not a fan of the team because i'm not on here 24/7 defending the GM's every more ?

You can be a fan of the team and not defend a GM, I don't think anyone is a fan of all his moves.

Judging by this post you also appear to know very little, so I guess that is where most people take offense to you being a "fan". When your view is negative and really unjustified in most cases people will begin to think you aren't a fan.

 

[notbias]

Just a Few Mistakes of Kyle Dubas:

Choosing Sparks over Mcbackup
Hutchinson as a backup goalie
Firing Babcock
Hiring Keefe
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Giving Matthews 11 million and getting no free agent years in return
Giving Marner 11 million at all regardless of term
Letting Gardner expire without moving him
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Opening the country club again by relaxing the rules for players
Trading Kapanen, Johnsson, Kadri, and Brown and only having Kerfoot to show for it
Letting Hymen walk
Hutchinson as a backup goalie again
Signing Ritchie
Trading a 1st round pick to move 1 year of Marleau's contract and allow for more bad deals
Not firing Keefe after he did nothing to remedy the playoff collapse to Montreal
Those glasses that make me want to punch him squarely in his stupid smug chart worshipping face

Basically two actual mistakes here.

You started off with something many considered to be the right move at the time, you can't critique someone in hindsight, because it was the right move at the time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You can be a fan of the team and not defend a GM, I don't think anyone is a fan of all his moves.

Judging by this post you also appear to know very little, so I guess that is where most people take offense to you being a "fan". When your view is negative and really unjustified in most cases people will begin to think you aren't a fan.

I imagine I might get in trouble for naming names so I'll just say that there are couple of posters here who say hi.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Oh really? Do we have a better defense or a better goalie?

not too sure if you being facetious or not. But if so, I am not too sure you could argue how this is not a much improved defending team in the last 2 seasons vs. the historical average of the prior ~15-18 seasons.

Updated Team Statistics:
3rd in NHL at 2.25 GA/GP
T6th in NHL at Shots allowed/GP at 29.7
3rd in the NHL in PK% at 88.7%


to give you a bit of context of where theses results are now, from where hey were in years past lets just look at GA/GP and see where we ranked over the last 15 seasons:

2020: 7th
2019: 26th
2018: 20th
2017: 12th
2016: 22nd
2015: 24th
2014: 26th
2013: 26th
2012: 17th
2011: 29th
2010: 25th
2009: 29th
2008: 30th
2007: 27th
2006: 25th

So do I think we've improved? Ya I'd say this is a much improved team defensively. If we want to look at this core specifically, I don't recall there ever being a time where 3 goals for would be good enough most nights.

4 years ago I would have been more likely to say, "as long as we hold our opponent to 3 goals or under we should be ok". Whereas now, it's "as long as we score 3 goals we should be ok"... I think that is telling.

We are winning game we historically have lost, and I really do have to give a lot of credit to Kyle and his team. People shit on him routinely for overspending on the core 4 and how that has prevented them from improving the team. It's a narrative that is factually inaccurate. Our team has improved by a compliment of internal maturation from the players that remained year over year, and the additions we have made on the back end and in goal over the course of Kyle's tenure. Sheldon also deserves a ton of credit. He has implemented a culture that personifies patience, and limiting chances.

We can't predict that this style of play will translate to the post season or not, but the fact of the matter is a defensively minded team will 9 times out of 10 go further in the playoffs. All Kyle can do is lead the horse to water. The boys needa find a way to drink in May/June

 

[zeke]

as a reminder, the Leafs have the 2nd best playoffs GAA in the league the past two years, behind only the back to back cup winners.

 

[Apex Predator]

as a reminder, the Leafs have the 2nd best playoffs GAA in the league the past two years, behind only the back to back cup winners.

Hey Zeke I’m not trying to be difficult and I don’t mean to be rude. This is a message board and sometimes things come across in a different tone than meant.

What does this stat have anything to do with? The reason the leafs lost was because they chocked the series away against them. We are comparing a playoff series where they only played one team compared to multiple teams. If you can explain this stat and why it means anything to me I’m all ears.

 

[hotpaws]

You can be a fan of the team and not defend a GM, I don't think anyone is a fan of all his moves.

Judging by this post you also appear to know very little, so I guess that is where most people take offense to you being a "fan". When your view is negative and really unjustified in most cases people will begin to think you aren't a fan.

you're pretty much a fan of every one of his moves and the one's your not a fan of you invent excuses to defend them

people like you join this forum and believe your duty bound to go from thread to thread attacking anyone who dares not cheerlead every move the team makes and battle with other fans to defend the honor of them team

the so called positive posters are actually the most negative posters on this board , they do nothing but shit on

- fans of other teams
- players on other teams
- everyone who doesn't blindly support the team
- refs/commentators/league officials/media when they feel they aren't 100% biased towards the Leafs

and the funny thing is they believe this makes them a positive poster . lol

 

[zeke]

Hey Zeke I’m not trying to be difficult and I don’t mean to be rude. This is a message board and sometimes things come across in a different tone than meant.

What does this stat have anything to do with? The reason the leafs lost was because they chocked the series away against them. We are comparing a playoff series where they only played one team compared to multiple teams. If you can explain this stat and why it means anything to me I’m all ears.

don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand how someone couldn't understand why having an extremely low goals against average is good.

 

[notbias]

I imagine I might get in trouble for naming names so I'll just say that there are couple of posters here who say hi.

I think most posters will at least agree to Marner being overpaid by a couple million, Ritchie signing was questionable (I've warmed up to a little, but still seems like a bad signing), I am sure there are more that are universally agreed on as bad moves, but those are the two off the top of my head, where I am sure even his strongest supporters can agree he didn't make the best calls.

Most of the criticism is with hindsight involved, which is never fair.

Sparks
Foligno (slight overpay in my opinion, but it was also market value at the time)
Marleau
Mrazek
Zaitsev
Brown
Kapenan
Johnsson
etc...

All were not his fault (cleaning up the mess left to him) or just look bad in hindsight but were likely the right move with the given knowledge

 

[4thline]

He keeps putting good teams on the ice. Ultimately, they have to be winners so they've been failures. But I will hand it to Kyle that I like the way he's built this roster. I've expected this team to win based on the sheer amount of talent and a terrifically rebuilt blueline (it was TERRIBLE before Dubas got here) and have been shocked that they have sucked THIS hard in the playoffs. I like the roster, I like where the org is at. The lack of playoff success is possibly devastating to Dubas's job security, but if we had won a series or two by now he'd be fairly celebrated IMO.

I'll criticize him for the things that bear criticism, especially the lack of playoff success and how the mistakes he's made effect that. But overall, I also find that when I give credit where it's due, I really like most of what he's done.

Very well put! I feel the same way, I like almost most of the moves he's made and am completely baffled that we keep losing in the playoffs. So every year I like our team going in and every year we lose. So If I'm happy with Dubas when the playoffs start, I can hardly call him an idiot 2 weeks later now can I? If we keep losing then of course in the end he takes the responsibility but still, it's hard to complain when I like most of what he's done right up until we lose the deciding game.

His mistakes IMO:

1 - Marner's contract
2 - Not extending Campbell this summer
3 - Trading a 1st for Foligno

He's also done many good things though and I'm always a big picture kind of guy so while I'm definitely pissed at some of the mistakes, I have to give him a pretty good grade overall. I really hope this team plays up to it's potential for a change in these playoffs a change, would be awesome for the narratives to change in a positive direction!

Pretty spot on exchange

 

[fancy lad]

Dubas' biggest fault WITHOUT A DOUBT is his contract negotiating. As far as building a complete roster he's done a good job.

It's hard to argue with the leafs regular season records the last handful of years. Honestly he has built good teams that play a high level of hockey. I just wish they had a more physical element to their game, but i have been a fan of this team long enough to appreciate what Dubas has put together.

 

[Havoc]

you're pretty much a fan of every one of his moves and the one's your not a fan of you invent excuses to defend them

people like you join this forum and believe your duty bound to go from thread to thread attacking anyone who dares not cheerlead every move the team makes and battle with other fans to defend the honor of them team

the so called positive posters are actually the most negative posters on this board , they do nothing but shit on

- fans of other teams
- players on other teams
- everyone who doesn't blindly support the team
- refs/commentators/league officials/media when they feel they aren't 100% biased towards the Leafs

and the funny thing is they believe this makes them a positive poster . lol

So untrue. This is your own personal experience but not a general one. You should look into why you experience this instead of just blindly blaming everyone else. Hint: Takes two to tango.

 

[ShaneFalco]

don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand how someone couldn't understand why having an extremely low goals against average is good.

Because it's meaningless when you lose? Or is that an expected win?

 

[Apex Predator]

don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand how someone couldn't understand why having an extremely low goals against average is good.

Using Montreal as an example they are not as high scoring as Tampa Bay. Florida’s numbers are skewed since they had to play Tampa. If opponents were switched there’s a good chance Florida GAA look better in that series against Montreal than Tampa. Leafs played Montreal and Columbus who I think it’s fair to say aren’t known for there scoring proneness which helps boost the Leafs numbers in the last two years.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Using Montreal as an example they are not as high scoring as Tampa Bay. Florida’s numbers are skewed since they had to play Tampa. If opponents were switched there’s a good chance Florida GAA look better in that series against Montreal than Tampa. Leafs played Montreal and Columbus who I think it’s fair to say aren’t known for there scoring proneness which helps boost the Leafs numbers in the last two years.

Then I assume you're also understanding of how facing top end defensive teams and hot, elite goaltending in the playoffs could impact offensive numbers?

 

[hotpaws]

So untrue. This is your own personal experience but not a general one. You should look into why you experience this instead of just blindly blaming everyone else. Hint: Takes two to tango.

it's true , you know it's true and your a prime example of how true my statement is , lol

 

[ACC1224]

Using Montreal as an example they are not as high scoring as Tampa Bay. Florida’s numbers are skewed since they had to play Tampa. If opponents were switched there’s a good chance Florida GAA look better in that series against Montreal than Tampa. Leafs played Montreal and Columbus who I think it’s fair to say aren’t known for there scoring proneness which helps boost the Leafs numbers in the last two years.

Most would rather win a series or two even if it meant the GAA was inflated instead of constantly providing excuses why this juggernaut can't get out of the 1st round.

 

[Twine Tickler]

As long as Dubas continues to make moves with a future focused mindset, I will likely support him. His loyalty to the core 4 is not a blind/limitless loyalty. It will just the last shoe to drop (moving a core player).

I think he's made plenty of mistakes in his tenure. I think Mitch and Auston should have had 8 year deals at those AAV's. Something that will likely become a huge issue in 2 years time. I didn't like his expansion protection strategy. Those are 2 scenarios that instantly come to mind where I was unhappy with the move right at inception.

But there have also been moves that he made that in hindsight have not worked out and we were forced to abort or change direction. These moves were met with optimism when they were made, but in time soured for one reason or another.

What I appreciate the most about Kyle is his ability to cut his losses.

Tyson Barrie was clearly not the right fit, he let him walk. Only to sign Brodie, who has been outstanding.

Foligno trade. Paid big bucks for a guy who should have helped us in the post season last year. His age and health became a huge issue. So many GM's would have doubled down on that, and lost once over. As bad as Ritchie has been this year, he's still been 10x better than what Foligno has been able to offer for Boston, at almost half the cost.

Letting Hyman walk is a decision that hurts in the immediate, but long term will be the right decision most likely. 8 years for a player who plays exactly like the aforementioned Foligno in his prime was always going to be a deal that matures poorly. Letting him walk was a decision that best suited the GM of our club 4 years from now, yet Kyle was not guaranteed to even be around beyond this current season. It was a decision to protect our club's future, when Kyle was only guaranteed the present. To me, I respect that.

I think that's where I have trust in Kyle's judgment of our core 4. He's shown in many ways that he is not afraid to make a move, and also make moves that contradict his prior beliefs. There will come a time when his belief in the core may waiver, at that point I trust he will make that decision.

No GM is going to be 100% on their transaction history. It's about finding ways to adapt. A lot of that adaptability comes from being humble enough to move on from your own failures. Something that is not overly common in traditional "old boys club" managing IMO.

 

[zeke]

Using Montreal as an example they are not as high scoring as Tampa Bay. Florida’s numbers are skewed since they had to play Tampa. If opponents were switched there’s a good chance Florida GAA look better in that series against Montreal than Tampa. Leafs played Montreal and Columbus who I think it’s fair to say aren’t known for there scoring proneness which helps boost the Leafs numbers in the last two years.

All teams GAA vs MTL in the playoffs last 2 years:

1. TBL 1.58
2. TOR 1.93
3. PHI 2.17
4. PIT 2.36
5. VGK 2.39
6. WPG 3.48

Vs CBJ

1. TBL 1.82
2. TOR 2.17

 

[zeke]

Because it's meaningless when you lose? Or is that an expected win?

The reasons why a team loses are meaningless?

 

[egd27]

The point being made is what, exactly?

That should Matthews choose not to resign after his current contract, then the "window" may not be the 10 years you had suggested.