Do you believe in Dubas?

[notbias]

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Speculation is never 100% factual. But I think there is room to believe this statement is plausible.

He was front and center for the 5 straight first round exits. I really don't think he would have had to stretch his imagination all that far to think EDM had a better chance at winning than us. They have the best player on the planet, and maybe even the 2nd best player. Certainly 2 of the top 3 players in the world.

Zach left not because we didn't offer him a deal. We didn't offer as appealing of an opportunity. Whether that was financial, NMC, or probability to win.

To the original point, Auston may find a better opportunity elsewhere in 2024, and we'd have no f***ing way to stop that from happening.

Can someone explain to me why it's a good thing that the best player to ever play for the Leafs has the power to freely walk away from our franchise in 2024, a full 3 seasons before it should have ever occurred?

That was my entire point in the first place. The Hyman scenario was merely brought in as an example that some people, including myself, thought he'd never leave because he was loyal to the soil. Which is the only defense people have proposed for Auston thus far.

if it is the Hyman scenario again, then great, he would have signed with us at an overpriced discount if we gave him what he wanted, sounds like a win for the Leafs.

Edmonton misses the playoffs more than they get to the second round, why would he think they have a better chance? And if he thought that, then why is it believed he would have taken a discount to stay with the Leafs? Really don't understand the logic behind Hyman leaving for a better situation when he wanted to stay.

 

[Jojalu]

He had the leverage that comes with Marner being a RFA so if instead of using it, he bent over just get it done then that's just very poor judgement. If that's what happened then I sure hope he's learned from it as it was a very costly mistake, and a bet that he simply did not have to make.



Yeah for it's like Matthews rocket award, means nothing to me and most of the time when someone mentions it I'm like oh yeah that's right, Matthews won it, it just doesn't register with me at all. Now had we we won the cup (or at least won a round or two), it would different and I would be thrilled and proud that he won it.

I will say this.. For almost my entire life the Leafs have been garbage and never had anyone winning individual awards.

They have had some stars, but never anyone we could say "He was the best this year".

Individual awards are something to be proud of and the regular season is too. It is generally what gets players into the Hall of Fame, how everyone defines the best and for 10 years we never had a sniff of the playoffs.

To say I would be happy if we continue to make the playoffs and lose in the first round is a lie, but who cares if they win 3 rounds and lose in the final? Still no Cup.

I will enjoy the day to day grind, watch the games, threaten to smash my TV while it is on and then go back to life about an hour after

 

[Racer88]

at least a penalty shot is earned.

a shootout win point tells us nothing about the team or their play whatsoever. it's just a lottery point. might as well flip a coin.

Ya I kind of get that but the shooter still has to score the goal and the goalie still has to make the save.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not like the shootout. I think 3 on 3 should continue until there is a winner however it is part of the game that successful teams need to capitalize on and should be afforded credit for it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I will say this.. For almost my entire life the Leafs have been garbage and never had anyone winning individual awards.

They have had some stars, but never anyone we could say "He was the best this year".

Individual awards are something to be proud of and the regular season is too. It is generally what gets players into the Hall of Fame, how everyone defines the best and for 10 years we never had a sniff of the playoffs.

To say I would be happy if we continue to make the playoffs and lose in the first round is a lie, but who cares if they win 3 rounds and lose in the final? Still no Cup.

I will enjoy the day to day grind, watch the games, threaten to smash my TV while it is on and then go back to life about an hour after

I wanted Wendel Clark to win the Calder, I think he should have won it and I wasn't happy when he didn't win. But at the time, the team was terrible so individual success is all there was to hope for. So I guess I'll amend what I said earlier - instead of saying individual awards don't matter if there is no team success, I will say that individual awards do matter (to me), unless they're overshadowed by epic, ongoing, and underachieving team failures.

 

[Gary Nylund]

if it is the Hyman scenario again, then great, he would have signed with us at an overpriced discount if we gave him what he wanted, sounds like a win for the Leafs.

Edmonton misses the playoffs more than they get to the second round, why would he think they have a better chance? And if he thought that, then why is it believed he would have taken a discount to stay with the Leafs? Really don't understand the logic behind Hyman leaving for a better situation when he wanted to stay.

I'm pretty sure he left for the money. Had the gap between the offers been tiny, he probably stays but in the end, usually money is the deciding factor in these decisions.

Ya I kind of get that but the shooter still has to score the goal and the goalie still has to make the save.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not like the shootout. I think 3 on 3 should continue until there is a winner however it is part of the game that successful teams need to capitalize on and should be afforded credit for it.

Is hockey the only sport where the rules change in the playoffs? On one hand I love 3 on 3, it's entertaining as hell. But shootouts are boring, dumb, have a ridiculous amount of variance and thus skew the standings. It'll never happen but they should go back to ties, nothing wrong with that at all. The system would have more integrity that way.

 

[PromisedLand]

I think he's made some mistakes but he's also done some good things. You seem to be bothered by people who cannot take any criticism of Dubas (and that's understandable) but you also seem to be bothered by people who praise him. Can you name some things that you think Dubas has done well or is his entire tenure just one mistake after the other?

Instead of typing BS I will show you proof

1) I was fully supportive of Dubas in the beginning (post in 2018). I never thought he would botch the contracts so royally
News Article: - Dubas: unlikely Matthews and Marner would sign an extension before Oct. 3


2) 2018 posts again (basically you can go through the Dubas named GM thread and I was defending Dubas being named GM -> did not think possible that Dubas will F up so royally)
Confirmed with Link: - [TOR/STL] TOR trades 25 (Dominik Bokk) to STL for 29 (Rasmus Sandin) + 76 (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev)

Kyle Dubas

Sportsnet: - 31 Thoughts Podcast - Kyle Dubas

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

I think thats enough of 2018 posts

You want some recent examples I assume I am not gonna look for these. too much work searching...

will give you point form:

• Brodie signing
• Rielly extension
• Muzzin deal

No GM is going to be perfect. You need a GM that hits a lot more than he misses. The moment Dubas handed out the Matthews/Marner contracts is the day the entire franchise took a step back when it comes to playoff hockey. I do not even have to convince you -> Dubas has been a GM for 2 playoffs 1st round exit and 1 play-in exit against CBJ

This is TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS its not a pee-wee club.

• Zamboni driver
• CBJ series (shutout in 2 of the 5 games)
• cannot get out of 1st round
• no cap room for quality depth
• etc...

all of this is under dubas' watch.

I supported Dubas when I thought he was doing the right things. Then I saw what he was doing, the on ice results and this team becoming a freakin' JOKE I had to "adjust" my opinion.

In hockey - as in life - you learn from your experiences and consequences based on your choices and adjust/adapt.

Dubas hasn't adjusted or adapted. You screw small things up - you can try to fix it. Dubas has screwed up so royally with his massive overpayments -> these are not easy to undo.

 

[Apex Predator]

Instead of typing BS I will show you proof

1) I was fully supportive of Dubas in the beginning (post in 2018). I never thought he would botch the contracts so royally
News Article: - Dubas: unlikely Matthews and Marner would sign an extension before Oct. 3


2) 2018 posts again (basically you can go through the Dubas named GM thread and I was defending Dubas being named GM -> did not think possible that Dubas will F up so royally)
Confirmed with Link: - [TOR/STL] TOR trades 25 (Dominik Bokk) to STL for 29 (Rasmus Sandin) + 76 (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev)

Kyle Dubas

Sportsnet: - 31 Thoughts Podcast - Kyle Dubas

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

I think thats enough of 2018 posts

You want some recent examples I assume I am not gonna look for these. too much work searching...

will give you point form:

• Brodie signing
• Rielly extension
• Muzzin deal

No GM is going to be perfect. You need a GM that hits a lot more than he misses. The moment Dubas handed out the Matthews/Marner contracts is the day the entire franchise took a step back when it comes to playoff hockey. I do not even have to convince you -> Dubas has been a GM for 2 playoffs 1st round exit and 1 play-in exit against CBJ

This is TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS its not a pee-wee club.

• Zamboni driver
• CBJ series (shutout in 2 of the 5 games)
• cannot get out of 1st round
• no cap room for quality depth
• etc...

all of this is under dubas' watch.

I supported Dubas when I thought he was doing the right things. Then I saw what he was doing, the on ice results and this team becoming a freakin' JOKE I had to "adjust" my opinion.

In hockey - as in life - you learn from your experiences and consequences based on your choices and adjust/adapt.

Dubas hasn't adjusted or adapted. You screw small things up - you can try to fix it. Dubas has screwed up so royally with his massive overpayments -> these are not easy to undo.

Hypothetical scenario: Leafs lose in the first round again but he is back next season but has to trade a core 4. Are you good with Dubas being allowed the opportunity to fix that situation?

 

[PromisedLand]

Hypothetical scenario: Leafs lose in the first round again but he is back next season but has to trade a core 4. Are you good with Dubas being allowed the opportunity to fix that situation?

Nope!

Rationale:

If Leafs have no playoff success - anything that is going to impact long term future of this team should be be handled by the person who will be here long term.

Dubas should be fired if Leafs have no playoff success. He should not be allowed to negotiate a deal. I'd prefer a new GM to negotiate that deal to get the assets back that he feels comfortable with based on the kind of team he wants to build. Dubas should have nothing to do with the future of this team and that includes Shanahan btw.

Dubas+Shanahan's future IMO is tied to what happens in the playoffs this season. They got their way -> GM, Coach, Players, Cap allocation, Team composition

This will be 4th season with Shanahan+Dubas combo and 3rd season with Keefe as a coach

Playoff hockey is a different beast. If the aim is to just be regular season warriors then just say it don't pretend that playoff success and cup is the ultimate goal.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Instead of typing BS I will show you proof

1) I was fully supportive of Dubas in the beginning (post in 2018). I never thought he would botch the contracts so royally
News Article: - Dubas: unlikely Matthews and Marner would sign an extension before Oct. 3


2) 2018 posts again (basically you can go through the Dubas named GM thread and I was defending Dubas being named GM -> did not think possible that Dubas will F up so royally)
Confirmed with Link: - [TOR/STL] TOR trades 25 (Dominik Bokk) to STL for 29 (Rasmus Sandin) + 76 (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev)

Kyle Dubas

Sportsnet: - 31 Thoughts Podcast - Kyle Dubas

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

Confirmed with Link: - Dubas the new GM - TSN

I think thats enough of 2018 posts

You want some recent examples I assume I am not gonna look for these. too much work searching...

will give you point form:

• Brodie signing
• Rielly extension
• Muzzin deal

No GM is going to be perfect. You need a GM that hits a lot more than he misses. The moment Dubas handed out the Matthews/Marner contracts is the day the entire franchise took a step back when it comes to playoff hockey. I do not even have to convince you -> Dubas has been a GM for 2 playoffs 1st round exit and 1 play-in exit against CBJ

This is TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS its not a pee-wee club.

• Zamboni driver
• CBJ series (shutout in 2 of the 5 games)
• cannot get out of 1st round
• no cap room for quality depth
• etc...

all of this is under dubas' watch.

I supported Dubas when I thought he was doing the right things. Then I saw what he was doing, the on ice results and this team becoming a freakin' JOKE I had to "adjust" my opinion.

In hockey - as in life - you learn from your experiences and consequences based on your choices and adjust/adapt.

Dubas hasn't adjusted or adapted. You screw small things up - you can try to fix it. Dubas has screwed up so royally with his massive overpayments -> these are not easy to undo.

So you like some of his moves, that's all I wanted to know. There no need for the histrionics, pee wee and JOKE and so on. The way you carry on makes you sound like you think he's a complete moron but then he wouldn't have done the good things you listed.

 

[Racer88]

I'm pretty sure he left for the money. Had the gap between the offers been tiny, he probably stays but in the end, usually money is the deciding factor in these decisions.



Is hockey the only sport where the rules change in the playoffs? On one hand I love 3 on 3, it's entertaining as hell. But shootouts are boring, dumb, have a ridiculous amount of variance and thus skew the standings. It'll never happen but they should go back to ties, nothing wrong with that at all. The system would have more integrity that way.

Agreed 100%