Do you believe in Dubas?

[Dekes For Days]

Given that 50% of the cap is allocated to 4 forwards with not enough left for depth/blue line or goalie for a good team composition that is competitive in the playoffs.

We're getting some of the best defensive results and goaltending in the league, and our depth has been doing just fine. Seems there was enough left after all, for a good GM, even despite the unprecedented crunch caused by the unexpected worldwide pandemic.

 

[Dreakmur]

That assumes you are using the correct process.

 

[4thline]

Kyle was gifted with one of the most promising set of young players.

He was also tasked with getting all of these players under contract after the termination of their ELC's

If anyone thinks this was an easy task, they clearly have no clue what they are talking about. He had to deal with Zaitsev's mess, Marleau's mess, Matt Martin mess, 1.2AAV less via Kessel mess, a toxic head coach, and an unforeseen flat cap. Despite all that, the team has still gotten better. Despite what some may think, and despite the post season results.

the process has vastly improved, the results will likely follow.

The defensive group has exponentially improved since he took over, and we finally have a roster that has shown back to back years of playing a 200ft game.

People can suggest the narrative that this team doesn't have the ability to play playoff style hockey, I just disagree. The way they played most of last year and this year would suggest otherwise. This team battles demons in between the ears, and only time will tell if they can overcome that. I have a lot of sympathy for Kyle TBH. He's put together very strong contending rosters year over year, and they cannot get out of their own way.

Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better. I'm interested to see if it garners any replies.

 

[Teeder Keon]

We're getting some of the best defensive results and goaltending in the league, and our depth has been doing just fine. Seems there was enough left after all, for a good GM, even despite the unprecedented crunch caused by the unexpected worldwide pandemic.

Perfectly said
Go Leafs Go

 

[Teeder Keon]

Kyle was gifted with one of the most promising set of young players.

He was also tasked with getting all of these players under contract after the termination of their ELC's

If anyone thinks this was an easy task, they clearly have no clue what they are talking about. He had to deal with Zaitsev's mess, Marleau's mess, Matt Martin mess, 1.2AAV less via Kessel mess, a toxic head coach, and an unforeseen flat cap. Despite all that, the team has still gotten better. Despite what some may think, and despite the post season results.

the process has vastly improved, the results will likely follow.

The defensive group has exponentially improved since he took over, and we finally have a roster that has shown back to back years of playing a 200ft game.

People can suggest the narrative that this team doesn't have the ability to play playoff style hockey, I just disagree. The way they played most of last year and this year would suggest otherwise. This team battles demons in between the ears, and only time will tell if they can overcome that. I have a lot of sympathy for Kyle TBH. He's put together very strong contending rosters year over year, and they cannot get out of their own way.

One of the best posts on this subject I’ve ever heard …
Great work

 

[Twine Tickler]

That assumes you are using the correct process.

Well you know the saying defense wins championships?

GA/GP (3rd)

PK% (4th)

Shot allowed per game (6th)

Our offensive stats are really the only outliers right now (see below, all stats are listed at "all strengths")

1st : High Danger Chances For/60 minutes
6th: Shots for/60 minutes
1st: xGF%
1st: scoring chances for/60minutes
6th: shooting percentage

26th: Goals For/GP

So ya, I'd say the process appears to look good to me...

 

[ToneDog]

Kyle was gifted with one of the most promising set of young players.

He was also tasked with getting all of these players under contract after the termination of their ELC's

If anyone thinks this was an easy task, they clearly have no clue what they are talking about. He had to deal with Zaitsev's mess, Marleau's mess, Matt Martin mess, 1.2AAV less via Kessel mess, a toxic head coach, and an unforeseen flat cap. Despite all that, the team has still gotten better. Despite what some may think, and despite the post season results.

the process has vastly improved, the results will likely follow.

The defensive group has exponentially improved since he took over, and we finally have a roster that has shown back to back years of playing a 200ft game.

People can suggest the narrative that this team doesn't have the ability to play playoff style hockey, I just disagree. The way they played most of last year and this year would suggest otherwise. This team battles demons in between the ears, and only time will tell if they can overcome that. I have a lot of sympathy for Kyle TBH. He's put together very strong contending rosters year over year, and they cannot get out of their own way.

Not many think Kyle had an easy task but Kyle himself will tell you he made mistakes and was learning from them. TB is the yardstick. I'd hate/love to see the Leafs meet them in round #1 with a healthy roster. That would tell us once and for all how good a playoff team we have.

 

[4thline]

Not many think Kyle had an easy task but Kyle himself will tell you he made mistakes and was learning from them. TB is the yardstick. I'd hate/love to see the Leafs meet them in round #1 with a healthy roster. That would tell us once and for all how good a playoff team we have.

I know you're meaning on ice. But TB is also a great example of long term patience and the road to victory.

Stamkos was drafted in 08, Hedman 09, Yzerman came on board in 10. In Yzerman's 4th year Kuch/Killorn/Palat/Johnson were just on the cusp. Vasilevsky/Point/Cirelli/Cernak/Sergachev were undrafted juniors.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not many think Kyle had an easy task but Kyle himself will tell you he made mistakes and was learning from them. TB is the yardstick. I'd hate/love to see the Leafs meet them in round #1 with a healthy roster. That would tell us once and for all how good a playoff team we have.

I just hope he writes his memoirs before I kick the bucket, I'm dying to know what he was thinking when he signed Marner. I remember him saying he "learned" from the Nylander fiasco that he wanted it done sooner as opposed to later, was the thinking just give him whatever he wants just to get it done?

I'll take TB in round 2 if it's all the same to you.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Well you know the saying defense wins championships?

GA/GP (3rd)
View attachment 483638


PK% (4th)
View attachment 483639

Shot allowed per game (6th)
View attachment 483640

Our offensive stats are really the only outliers right now (see below, all stats are listed at "all strengths")

1st : High Danger Chances For/60 minutes
6th: Shots for/60 minutes
1st: xGF%
1st: scoring chances for/60minutes
6th: shooting percentage

26th: Goals For/GP

So ya, I'd say the process appears to look good to me...

I didn't examine the advanced stats but on the basic stats a team like Edmonton seems to be trending in the opposite direction yet they are apparently "true contenders" and we are apparently moving the other way?

 

[Twine Tickler]

Not many think Kyle had an easy task but Kyle himself will tell you he made mistakes and was learning from them. TB is the yardstick. I'd hate/love to see the Leafs meet them in round #1 with a healthy roster. That would tell us once and for all how good a playoff team we have.

Oh 1000% Kyle has done things he'd like to have back. And out of every GM in the league, I think he'd be the first to openly admit the things he did wrong while still employed with his respective club.

He's never shied away from his share in the blame, in fact he takes more blame on than he rightfully deserves IMO. Kind of like Soupy at times.

My whole point with Kyle has always been his ability to adapt to the changing tides of the NHL. Some of that necessary adapting was self inflicted. Some of it had zero control over. But when the puck drops in October every year, we are a better team from the year prior. It may not have looked that way on paper going into this year, but the product is suggesting otherwise so far.

If anyone can remember a more impressive stretch of 13 games from the Leafs in the last 15-20 years, let me know. I do vaguely remember a time back when I was a Pup that the club went on a 15 game heater or some shit back in the McCabe/Sundin era, but aside from that, this is easily the best stretch of hockey from our current core group ever. And the irony of it all is, the core 4 haven't even needed to be world beaters to do this. So clearly the surrounding pieces Kyle has assembled have some part in all of it.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Not many think Kyle had an easy task but Kyle himself will tell you he made mistakes and was learning from them. TB is the yardstick. I'd hate/love to see the Leafs meet them in round #1 with a healthy roster. That would tell us once and for all how good a playoff team we have.

I've been wanting to play TBay for 4 or 5 years now. Not that I think they'd be easy but because they are two of the most talented teams and teams that I think would lay it all on the table, which as a hockey fan is what I want to see. Not sit back and wait but attack. Yes, you play D but you play to win, not to avoid losing. I just feel that it the kind of series it would be and just sooooo much talent.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I didn't examine the advanced stats but on the basic stats a team like Edmonton seems to be trending in the opposite direction yet they are apparently "true contenders" and we are apparently moving the other way?

I think Edmonton is a touch fraudulent personally. They win a lot of track meets. Insane PP numbers that just are not sustainable. For the record, their PP will undoubtingly be the best in the league the entirety of the year, I don't question that 1 bit. But 38% lol....I donno.

I guess when you have Connor and Leon you have a chance against any team any night. There are few players as game breaking as them that I have ever seen. I just don't know how sustainable that will be in the playoffs. Commitment to 200ft game is truly the only consistent way to win in the NHL, and even then you still need luck to win it all.

Hardest trophy to win in pro-sport

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm dying to know what he was thinking when he signed Marner.

He was probably recognizing that he was signing one of the best young players of the cap era, that was incredibly important to the team.

I remember him saying he "learned" from the Nylander fiasco that he wanted it done sooner as opposed to later, was the thinking just give him whatever he wants just to get it done?

He didn't give Marner whatever he wanted. That's an especially odd statement considering Dubas negotiated until training camp was about to start in order to get a reasonable deal for the team.

 

[4thline]

I just hope he writes his memoirs before I kick the bucket, I'm dying to know what he was thinking when he signed Marner. I remember him saying he "learned" from the Nylander fiasco that he wanted it done sooner as opposed to later, was the thinking just give him whatever he wants just to get it done?

Within reason, I think yes. He wasn't giving him the Matthews deal, but in the end came up from the Tavares deal. He had to know that deal was "over slot" but signed it anyway. I see it as a high conviction bet on Mitch Marner growing into a first ballot hall of famer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Oh don't worry if this thread gets closed I'll make another one. 57% of the fans do not have any faith in Dubas. If the poll was tilted another way I would not make a new thread.

The only "windmill" is by the dubas fans who cannot take any criticism of dubas despite dubas' decisions having no positive impact on the team while having ZERO post-season progress.

I think he's made some mistakes but he's also done some good things. You seem to be bothered by people who cannot take any criticism of Dubas (and that's understandable) but you also seem to be bothered by people who praise him. Can you name some things that you think Dubas has done well or is his entire tenure just one mistake after the other?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think Edmonton is a touch fraudulent personally. They win a lot of track meets. Insane PP numbers that just are not sustainable. For the record, their PP will undoubtingly be the best in the league the entirety of the year, I don't question that 1 bit. But 38% lol....I donno.

I guess when you have Connor and Leon you have a chance against any team any night. There are few players as game breaking as them that I have ever seen. I just don't know how sustainable that will be in the playoffs. Commitment to 200ft game is truly the only consistent way to win in the NHL, and even then you still need luck to win it all.

Hardest trophy to win in pro-sport

That's the thing, they are actually going backwards defensively (on raw stats)...it very much looks like track meets which doesn't bode well. I mean, that's what they were last year and they got swept by the team that got swept by the Habs (yes I know we lost to them in 7 but trying to add some perspective).

 

[Apex Predator]

I think Edmonton is a touch fraudulent personally. They win a lot of track meets. Insane PP numbers that just are not sustainable. For the record, their PP will undoubtingly be the best in the league the entirety of the year, I don't question that 1 bit. But 38% lol....I donno.

I guess when you have Connor and Leon you have a chance against any team any night. There are few players as game breaking as them that I have ever seen. I just don't know how sustainable that will be in the playoffs. Commitment to 200ft game is truly the only consistent way to win in the NHL, and even then you still need luck to win it all.

Hardest trophy to win in pro-sport

Edmonton kind of reminds me of the Leafs a couple years back and they were out scoring their problems. Eventually it caught up to the Leafs and I think it will to Edmonton.

 

[Jojalu]

Well you know the saying defense wins championships?

GA/GP (3rd)
View attachment 483638


PK% (4th)
View attachment 483639

Shot allowed per game (6th)
View attachment 483640

Our offensive stats are really the only outliers right now (see below, all stats are listed at "all strengths")

1st : High Danger Chances For/60 minutes
6th: Shots for/60 minutes
1st: xGF%
1st: scoring chances for/60minutes
6th: shooting percentage

26th: Goals For/GP

So ya, I'd say the process appears to look good to me...

There are those weak Canadian teams again filling up the top 10.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Edmonton kind of reminds me of the Leafs a couple years back and they were out scoring their problems. Eventually it caught up to the Leafs and I think it will to Edmonton.

yup I totally agree. It's fun to see your guys at the top of the Pt leaders, but in all honesty it means jack shit without the mug at the end of the year. Much rather a defensive, more predictable brand of hockey.

That's the thing, they are actually going backwards defensively (on raw stats)...it very much looks like track meets which doesn't bode well. I mean, that's what they were last year and they got swept by the team that got swept by the Habs (yes I know we lost to them in 7 but trying to add some perspective).

Ya I mean they have the ability to completely blow teams out of the water, but I really don't think they are putting up 7 goals against teams that play within a structure. That said, if they get that first goal, and the structure has to open up a bit and the game becomes a bit more north/south, they have so much individual skill it is actually gross. McDavid is the greatest hockey player I've ever seen. He is hockey's version of Messi IMO. Absolute must watch TV. I am so jealous of Oilers fans getting to watch him every f***ing game.

 

[Fogelhund]

yup I totally agree. It's fun to see your guys at the top of the Pt leaders, but in all honesty it means jack shit without the mug at the end of the year. Much rather a defensive, more predictable brand of hockey.
.

Just win when it counts baby.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

yup I totally agree. It's fun to see your guys at the top of the Pt leaders, but in all honesty it means jack shit without the mug at the end of the year. Much rather a defensive, more predictable brand of hockey.



Ya I mean they have the ability to completely blow teams out of the water, but I really don't think they are putting up 7 goals against teams that play within a structure. That said, if they get that first goal, and the structure has to open up a bit and the game becomes a bit more north/south, they have so much individual skill it is actually gross. McDavid is the greatest hockey player I've ever seen. He is hockey's version of Messi IMO. Absolute must watch TV. I am so jealous of Oilers fans getting to watch him every f***ing game.

No worries. He'll be in Toronto soon enough. We can and we will.

 

[nsleaf]

I guess you resort to calling other posters posts "rambling" when you have no counter. I care about Leafs' success whether it is under dubas or not.

Based on the poll and on ice evidence it is clear that success is not going to happen under dubas

Wow, it's just hopeless then. Why do you bother to continuasly whine about it? Odd way to support your team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Within reason, I think yes. He wasn't giving him the Matthews deal, but in the end came up from the Tavares deal. He had to know that deal was "over slot" but signed it anyway. I see it as a high conviction bet on Mitch Marner growing into a first ballot hall of famer.

He had the leverage that comes with Marner being a RFA so if instead of using it, he bent over just get it done then that's just very poor judgement. If that's what happened then I sure hope he's learned from it as it was a very costly mistake, and a bet that he simply did not have to make.

yup I totally agree. It's fun to see your guys at the top of the Pt leaders, but in all honesty it means jack shit without the mug at the end of the year. Much rather a defensive, more predictable brand of hockey.

Yeah for it's like Matthews rocket award, means nothing to me and most of the time when someone mentions it I'm like oh yeah that's right, Matthews won it, it just doesn't register with me at all. Now had we we won the cup (or at least won a round or two), it would different and I would be thrilled and proud that he won it.

 

[Apex Predator]

This has been one of the more interesting threads with some good back and forth, extreme takes and of course non sense. I hope it goes all year long and we get it to a part 4 or 5 by end of season.