Do you believe in Dubas?

[Gary Nylund]

He keeps putting good teams on the ice. Ultimately, they have to be winners so they've been failures. But I will hand it to Kyle that I like the way he's built this roster. I've expected this team to win based on the sheer amount of talent and a terrifically rebuilt blueline (it was TERRIBLE before Dubas got here) and have been shocked that they have sucked THIS hard in the playoffs. I like the roster, I like where the org is at. The lack of playoff success is possibly devastating to Dubas's job security, but if we had won a series or two by now he'd be fairly celebrated IMO.

I'll criticize him for the things that bear criticism, especially the lack of playoff success and how the mistakes he's made effect that. But overall, I also find that when I give credit where it's due, I really like most of what he's done.

Very well put! I feel the same way, I like almost most of the moves he's made and am completely baffled that we keep losing in the playoffs. So every year I like our team going in and every year we lose. So If I'm happy with Dubas when the playoffs start, I can hardly call him an idiot 2 weeks later now can I? If we keep losing then of course in the end he takes the responsibility but still, it's hard to complain when I like most of what he's done right up until we lose the deciding game.

His mistakes IMO:

1 - Marner's contract
2 - Not extending Campbell this summer
3 - Trading a 1st for Foligno

He's also done many good things though and I'm always a big picture kind of guy so while I'm definitely pissed at some of the mistakes, I have to give him a pretty good grade overall. I really hope this team plays up to it's potential for a change in these playoffs a change, would be awesome for the narratives to change in a positive direction!

 

[egd27]

I hope he stays. I think he’s the second best forward in the league.

I also understand that he may want to leave.

The mere suggestion of this sends the Dubites in to full blown panic and denial mode.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I agree completely. Rielly 's deal excellent, he would have gotten more in the summer and his game should age well, like you said. And I'm amazed how much people bitch about the Tavares deal. It's a 7 year deal, we're in year four of that already and his game hasn't really dropped off at all so for the life of me, I have no idea WTF people are whining about. We added an elite centre to our roster without giving up any assets and people are still whining, I just don't get it.



I assume this is behind a pay wall but these ranking don't surprise me. The Marner contract was a clear mistake IMHO but other than that, he's done a very good job with the contracts. Remember when we offered a ridiclous deal to Bolland and only escaped because some one else was dumb enough to offer him more? Remember the Clarkson deal, what a joke that was and we were so lucky to be able to get away from that one.

Every GM makes mistakes, including Dubas but overall he's been pretty great.

They still have win come post-season or all of the signings are essentially bad signings. Pro sports is about winning not just a bit of flash and individual awards.

That said Tavares as captain is light years better than, say, another Phaneuf. I didn't agree with Dion being named captain and in my opinion it was a big drop off from the winning and leadership that Sundin brought. I have far more faith that Tavares can rally the team together while representing the organization with class.

 

[Apex Predator]

The mere suggestion of this sends the Dubites in to full blown panic and denial mode.

I hate when anyone brings this up they automatically jump down your throat saying you are hoping he’s leaving. Why would any leaf fan hope that would happen?

 

[zeke]

The mere suggestion of this sends the Dubites in to full blown panic and denial mode.

Keep hoping that he will leave one of the best teams in the league for reasons.

 

[Dreakmur]

Keep hoping that he will leave one of the best teams in the league for reasons.

Keep arguing against fake points. Nobody hopes he leaves.

 

[zeke]

Keep arguing against fake points. Nobody hopes he leaves.

Uh huh.

 

[IPS]

I hate when anyone brings this up they automatically jump down your throat saying you are hoping he’s leaving. Why would any leaf fan hope that would happen?

The only problem I have with is how the 5 year term gets painted as some monumental mistake. Sure it's an overpayment, but the term has nothing to do with it.

There's a laundry list of superstars who signed 5 year deals after their ELC. Also worth noting virtually none of them left their team.

 

[therealkoho]

Keep hoping that he'll leave.

I'm not, but at what point does it make sense to keep him, if he won't sign for under 20m, I'm of the mind that he's right at the very top of his pay scale, any more is too much

 

[Gary Nylund]

They still have win come post-season or all of the signings are essentially bad signings. Pro sports is about winning not just a bit of flash and individual awards.

That said Tavares as captain is light years better than, say, another Phaneuf. I didn't agree with Dion being named captain and in my opinion it was a big drop off from the winning and leadership that Sundin brought. I have far more faith that Tavares can rally the team together while representing the organization with class.

Too arbitrary and too black and white for me. So if they win, all the signings are good then? And win what, the cup? If we win the cup then all the signings are good but if we lose game 7 of the finals then they're all bad?

I agree that it's all about winning and at some point, we're going to have to some winning in the playoffs and if you don't win, it's hard to argue that Dubas isn't at fault. He's the GM so he's gonna get a lot of credit when we win, and a lot of blame when we lose, that's just the way it is.

 

[Menzinger]

The only problem I have with is how the 5 year term gets painted as some monumental mistake. Sure it's an overpayment, but the term has nothing to do with it.

There's a laundry list of superstars who signed 5 year deals after their ELC. Also worth noting virtually none of them left their team.

Yep.

The number of star players who left their drafted teams while still in their 20s in the cap era can be counted on one hand, and one of them came to Toronto lol

While it's true no one can see.the future, this particular issue seems an odd.one to fixate on now. Especially given the guy has three years of contract left

 

[zeke]

I'm not, but at what point does it make sense to keep him, if he won't sign for under 20m, I'm of the mind that he's right at the very top of his pay scale, any more is too much

I imagine he'll get a similar cap% on his next contract as he did on this one.

 

[therealkoho]

I imagine he'll get a similar cap% on his next contract as he did on this one.

I'd like to think that and the Leafs want to think that, but I don't think Matthews and his "team" think that. It's like that old disco song "more, more more" when it comes to the PA, the agents and the player.

 

[Apex Predator]

I'm not, but at what point does it make sense to keep him, if he won't sign for under 20m, I'm of the mind that he's right at the very top of his pay scale, any more is too much

I think the Leafs have no choice but to play out his contract and get him resigned. If he leaves well oh well nothing you can do.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Too arbitrary and too black and white for me. So if they win, all the signings are good then? And win what, the cup? If we win the cup then all the signings are good but if we lose game 7 of the finals then they're all bad?

I agree that it's all about winning and at some point, we're going to have to some winning in the playoffs and if you don't win, it's hard to argue that Dubas isn't at fault. He's the GM so he's gonna get a lot of credit when we win, and a lot of blame when we lose, that's just the way it is.

After this long of a drought, "all or nothing" has to be the mantra. So, yes, if they win a Cup no fan will point at a bad contract.

Let me use a real-life example to explain the dilemma. Last week there there was a van parked with a Montreal Canadians flag hanging out of his window.

Some teens were walking by and remarked how brave the owner was to fly the flag of "such a garbage team"

The guy was still in his van, got out to do his business and must have overheard because he shouted to them with a smile "at least my kids have seen their team win a playoff series in their lifetimes".

Ouch. When you haven't won a Cup since 1967 and even a single playoff round since 2004, the sport becomes very much results oriented. The more immediate the better.

2004! That is one hell of an indictment on this franchises management for nearly 20 years...

 

[Gary Nylund]

After this long of a drought, "all or nothing" has to be the mantra. So, yes, if they win a Cup no fan will point at a bad contract.

Let me use a real-life example to explain the dilemma. Last week there there was a van parked with a Montreal Canadians flag hanging out of his window.

Some teens were walking by and remarked how brave the owner was to fly the flag of "such a garbage team"

The guy was still in his van, got out to do his business and must have overheard because he shouted to them with a smile "at least my kids have seen their team win a playoff series in their lifetimes".

Ouch. When you haven't won a Cup since 1967 and even a single playoff round since 2004, the sport becomes very much results oriented. The more immediate the better.

2004! That is one hell of an indictment on this franchises management for nearly 20 years...

Sure but that doesn't mean that if we don't win the cup, every signing is bad.

 

[egd27]

Keep hoping that he will leave one of the best teams in the league for reasons.

Nobody is hoping he leaves,

There are good reasons for him to stay and there are reasons he may want to move on.

But let’s not even consider that because it’s just easier to label anyone speculating as a non fan

Wouldn’t want any actual discussion on a discussion board, let’s just stick with the team’s pace. (At least as long as it stays above 100)

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wouldn’t want any actual discussion on a discussion board

Yeah, why would we spend time discussing the current excellent team we have on the fan board for that team, when we can instead arbitrarily predict the departure of our superstar player in 3 years based on nothing. So much fun.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Why was my response about the terrible term on Reilly’s contract deleted? It did not break any of the site rules.

 

[Snipes 29]

The sad thing he was gifted an enviable situation.

His fixation on all things Soo Greyhound is strange.

Yep???

The sad thing he was gifted an enviable situation.

His fixation on all things Soo Greyhound is strange.

yep??

 

[egd27]

Yeah, why would we spend time discussing the current excellent team we have on the fan board for that team, when we can instead arbitrarily predict the departure of our superstar player in 3 years based on nothing. So much fun.

More than one thread on the board. Many people are able to recognize and post on how well Campbell is playing, (for example) in one thread and still speculate on what possibilities exist for a player in a trade thread.

If you don't like the discussion, you don't have to participate.

 

[Dekes For Days]

More than one thread on the board. Many people are able to recognize and post on how well Campbell is playing, (for example) in one thread and still speculate on what possibilities exist for a player in a trade thread.

Uhh... this is not a trade thread. Nor is it the pointlessly speculate on the departure of our superstar player in 3 years based on nothing thread. Discussion about the excellent play of both the team built by Dubas and the goaltender acquired by Dubas would however be relevant in a thread discussing the belief the fanbase has in Dubas.

 

[egd27]

Uhh... this is not a trade thread. Nor is it the pointlessly speculate on the departure of our superstar player in 3 years based on nothing thread. Discussion about the excellent play of both the team built by Dubas and the goaltender acquired by Dubas would however be relevant in a thread discussing the belief the fanbase has in Dubas.

Yup, I got the thread mixed up with the "one player you'd trade" thread.

That said, this was the initial post that kicked off the discussion, which IMO is certainly a fair comment in this thread.

Our current window is the length of Auston Matthews' contract. If he re-signs, that could open a new window.

Unfortunately, another poster had to accuse @Dreakmur of hoping Matthews leaves, rather than considering the point being made.

 

[Dreakmur]

Uhh... this is not a trade thread. Nor is it the pointlessly speculate on the departure of our superstar player in 3 years based on nothing thread. Discussion about the excellent play of both the team built by Dubas and the goaltender acquired by Dubas would however be relevant in a thread discussing the belief the fanbase has in Dubas.

There’s good and bad things to discuss.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Dubas' greatest accomplishment thus far is his underrated and underappreciated overhauling of our defense. We were a bottom feeder defensively for over a decade, almost 2 decades really. Last year was the first time in ~15 years where we had a top 5 defense, and we are tracking to do the same this year as well. Brodie, Muzzin, Holl, and Sandin are all his doing. On any given night 3 of those players are in the lineup. Not to mention the defensive minded forwards in Kerf, Kase, Kampf as well as our lights out tendy in Soup.

Goals Against/game played (T-5)
View attachment 481063

PK % (T-3)
View attachment 481064

Pretty impressive shit. Especially when you consider the 7 spot that Pitt put up on us early on into the season.


What is ironic is that the narrative has always been that the 4 players making 40 Million has been holding this team back from making moves to improve our roster, yet the improvements on D and in net were made largely after those deals were signed...

Oh really? Do we have a better defense or a better goalie?