Do you believe in Dubas?

[NightTrain1]

I don't have a lot of focus to type out something super deep or profound so Ill make a rambling comment.


I think Dubas is probably a really nice guy and I also believe he is probably extremely intelligent.

One of the biggest problems Dubas gambled on was the salary CAP rising. He prematurely handed out a couple of large contracts to avoid team disruptions and hard feelings but was doing so with the intent on recovering some of it with the CAP rise.

If people forget, back in the winter of 2020 before the pandemic the NHL CAP was expected to rise up to between 85-88 million last year. With new TV deals and the expansion team the CAP would probably be closer to 90million this year. He probably shouldn't have made that gamble of course, but literally who could have predicted a worldwide shutdown which is most likely the only thing that could prevent the CAP from moving.

The other thing Dubas gambled on was that these big dollar guys were on the verge of taking over the league (we all thought this, don't lie). When we had Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Reilly, Nylander and Hyman the thought was nobody could stop that many elite players. The first half of the 2019 season the Leafs PP was so damn good that people commented the league would have to come up with something to reduce how strong they were. I absolutely don't remember but it was something like %10 higher than the next best team, it was actually crazy. Then it all fell apart for whatever reason and probably the same reasons they cant get it together in the playoffs and are struggling now.

Hockey is parts of skill, luck, heart and determination. Unfortunately for Dubas it doesn't matter who he brings in the team never seems to be able to do more than 2 of these at the same time. The core is the only thing that hasnt changed and now he is hesitating to pull the trigger on moving one of these big dollar guys and it will probably cost him his job.

 

[myleafs]

Do you think a guy would just make something like that up?....Why is it so hard to believe?...Dubas is all about optics with this team...why would he not do something like that if he is insecure?

I get the hockey criticisms and they are deserved but I am not gonna take anything someone says about his integrity or character with any seriousness. It just comes across as another way of trying to demean someone because the person doesnt like him. Same goes for Marner...go after him all you want regarding his on ice play or whether he took too much money etc but when the line gets blurred and it becomes personal attacks its too easy to stoop to a level I am not interested in. Don't like someone... just attack their character and treat them like they are a piece of shit? Crosses a line imo. Show some humanity ffs. Why be so cruel, we are on a hockey site talking hockey no? Why does it have to become so personal?

 

[Twine Tickler]

One of the biggest problems Dubas gambled on was the salary CAP rising

He more or less used what was projected vs gambled.

It would be the equivalent of projecting your child to grow in height from age 3 and realizing at 3.5 they have a rare condition that stunts their growth.

I see what you are saying with "gamble" but it really was not much of a gamble. It took a global pandemic to keep it flat.

But yes he did gamble on the core being his 4 horses. Till this point it has not materialized. But I'm not sure many GM's would have done anything differently, with the exception of not sign JT. Contracts aside, Mitch, Willy, and Matthews were going to run the show for whoever was in charge.

 

[notbias]

Yea, his 12 years as an AHL GM after 5 years in the Canadiens front office is "similar experience" to Dubas' 3.

Glad we finally agree we are able to hire someone who wins in the lower leagues because they've proven themselves and we don't need someone with NHL experience as a GM.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Not anymore. This team looks the same. They dont have it takes to take the next step.

I keep waiting for them to be killers and be a top 5 team and they're not. This is a flawed team from the core.

 

[Apex Predator]

Not anymore. This team looks the same. They dont have it takes to take the next step.

I keep waiting for them to be killers and be a top 5 team and they're not. This is a flawed team from the core.

You either have it or don’t. They’re not going to develop it at this point.

 

[17 Clark]

You either have it or don’t. They’re not going to develop it at this point.

Do you remember when he traded away anybody with grit do not think there’s probably one or two we could’ve used then when you give Max contracts you wind up trading the complementary pieces because you can no longer afford them this is all his doing

 

[NinjaKick]

I said during the summer that Dubas, Shanahan and Keefe were on thin ice... a few more games of this nonchalant bull shiz and that ice will fall through

 

[Big Shot]

I still laugh when the Leafs turned away Steve Yzerman when he was being considered for the GM position in Toronto, but was turned down because he didn't have enough experience. he went to TB and the rest is history. Don't know why they didn't keep Lamerello. He obviously would have had this team running on all cylinders.

 

[egd27]

Glad we finally agree we are able to hire someone who wins in the lower leagues because they've proven themselves and we don't need someone with NHL experience as a GM.

I see you have conveniently forgot what started this particular back and forth.

Dubas had a better resume and more experience running a team than Brisbois.

So not only mistaken but apparently also lacking the integrity to admit it. Pretty sad.

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

The pandemic induced flat Salary Cap is not the problem, it's the allocation of cap relative to position/player. It should've never been that much money tied up in those four players/forward position.

Even with the anticipated cap-rise, player salaries would rise accordingly. The % of cap to those four forward slots just doesn't make sense and never did. Two forward, a #1 D-Man and a proven #1 goalie in that contract structure, then great, have the $40M/4 contracts. That would've been a wiser gamble.

My issue with the team is really the Big4 because they were given an enormous amount of trust, priveledge and wealth. Kyle Dubas pretty much bet his career on these guys and they are not rising to the occassion, and the only reason for that is their lack of heart, work ethic and some sort of plug-up between the ears.

In any type of big contract scenario you're usually expecting to pay for performance and results, not process. People get paid based on their experience, understanding of something, and time invested in their field of choice. These guys don't have the answers to what a "real sense of a Stanley Cup-contending team looks and feels like." and that's okay, but they are being paid like they do have the answers. That is the biggest problem.

If you paid very top dollar to have your house renovated, would you be happy if the contractor put his most promising new guys on the job, the intern-graduates, or would you want the experienced guys who've been on the job and scene a lot of shit?

"This is not game 8 tonight, this is year 6."
-Jackie Redmond

 

[Havoc]

I still laugh when the Leafs turned away Steve Yzerman when he was being considered for the GM position in Toronto, but was turned down because he didn't have enough experience. he went to TB and the rest is history. Don't know why they didn't keep Lamerello. He obviously would have had this team running on all cylinders.

Let me get this straight. Believing in Hainsey and Zaitsev to round out your top 4 while making Turtle neck plek your splash move while having all your best players for cheap, accumulates to being granted a 4th year as GM?

Lou let everyone down including us but gets a free pass because the Islanders made it to the conference finals. Who cares about the Islanders . He had a much better team over here and flopped.

If Dubas ends up a failure it will be both Lou and him that failed us. Lous final push in year 3 was soft. That was our final peak year for that snapshot of the team. Horrible GM'ing. He didn't deserve the 4th year

Dubas did just fine considering we had no Nylander that regular season. (Missing for half and a shadow of himself for the rest). His own guys Kapanen and Hyman making up for the loss of JVR and Bozak and Muzzin a massive upgrade on D. Leafs were so deep with that Kadri-Nylander third line in playoffs it looked like Bruins would be dealt with in as little as 5 games. Kadri had other plans though.

The point is it was clear we didn't need Lou. Let me reiterate it was Dubas guys stepping in and providing the depth we lost which includes Nylander for a significant stretch.

Today things are darker but that's not the focus. The focus is this belief Lou would be some savior here. That's all fantasy and make believe. A story is being written for Lou here that isn't true and one he doesn't deserve.

It's surprising people are willing to accept mediocrity when it doesn't involve Dubas. Mediocre describes Lous time here so get over him already. Dubas failing doesn't equal Lou being good. They both failed if Leafs end up having to clean house.

 

[sparxx87]

I see you have conveniently forgot what started this particular back and forth.



So not only mistaken but apparently also lacking the integrity to admit it. Pretty sad.

What's funny is when you actually look at his resume. After a failed attempt as a player agent (Wikipedia says "challenges with clients leaving for other agents resulted in Dubas looking for alternate careers in hockey") he was hired as an OHL GM with a degree from Brock and stick boy/dressing room attendant as his only relevant experience. (Thanks, Grandpa) He rewarded SSM in his very first year by pulling off one of the worst trades in CHL history trading two players and SIX (6) draft picks (all 2nd and 3rds) for one year of Jack Campbell and they MISSED THE PLAYOFFS. Oops. 2nd year, out in the first round. 3rd year, out in the 2nd round. 4th year, the newly appointed assistant GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Don't worry, I had to read it twice, too. Hard to believe Brendan Shanahan could be such a great player and also a complete moron.

Dubas is an incredible salesman, I'll give him that.

 

[egd27]

He rewarded SSM in his very first year by pulling off one of the worst trades in CHL history trading two players and SIX (6) draft picks (all 2nd and 3rds) for one year of Jack Campbell and they MISSED THE PLAYOFFS.

Are you serious? Good lord.

That must be one awesome PowerPoint deck he has for interviews.

 

[rocketman588]

Obviously has empowered these lazy assholes into thinking they can not try and get their way.

Matthews is the worst offender as well dude has the worst attitude of any megastar in hockey.

The worst part is three NHL tried to hand us an early start with an absolute garbage opening schedule. Just get rid of him

 

[Atomos2]

Lol at the title of this thread.

 

[sparxx87]

Are you serious? Good lord.

That must be one awesome PowerPoint deck he has for interviews.

To the Greyhounds: Jack Campbell
To the Windsor Spitfires: Mackenzie Braid, Patrick Sieloff, and six draft picks (Kingston’s third-round pick in 2012, Windsor’s second-round pick in 2013, Erie’s third-round pick in 2013, Owen Sound’s second-round pick in 2014, Saginaw’s second-round pick in 2014, Sault Ste. Marie’s second-round pick in 2015 and another conditional 2018 Sault Ste. Marie pick)

1 year of Jack Campbell where they missed the playoffs.

What happened last time Kyle Dubas traded for netminder Jack Campbell - Sportsnet.ca

Article came with this gem:
When goaltenders like Jack become available you need to make a conscientious decision as an organization to pursue him, knowing that you will be in competition with many other clubs and the price will be very high. … In life, you can sit back and allow others to take risks, chances and achieve their ultimate potential. Our club, with Coach Stapleton and me at the helm will not be one of those teams that sit back. We have been and will continue to be willing to dare and take risks in an attempt to build a world class culture of champions. We have and will continue to plan, prepare, and expect to be champions.”

Hell of a salesman.

 

[Stephen]

It would appear that the nurturing mom style GM’ing towards the roster did not have the desired effect over the offseason. You wonder if based on how easy going and lackadaisical the team entered the season if maybe he should have thrown down the gauntlet and appealed to their competitive nature instead.

 

[IPS]

It would appear that the nurturing mom style GM’ing towards the roster did not have the desired effect over the offseason. You wonder if based on how easy going and lackadaisical the team entered the season if maybe he should have thrown down the gauntlet and appealed to their competitive nature instead.

I still keep thinking back to that scene on all or nothing when Dubas had that little chat with Marner before game 7. Who knows if it was played up for the cameras or whatever, but that really did say everything about Dubas and how he handles players. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body - he's just not cut out for this business.

 

[Stephen]

I still keep thinking back to that scene on all or nothing when Dubas had that little chat with Marner before game 7. Who knows if it was played up for the cameras or whatever, but that really did say everything about Dubas and how he handles players. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body - he's just not cut out for this business.

That nurturing, have fun message just doesn’t seem to work in the context of competitive, professional sports. Like maybe give Marner that pep talk if he’s applying for universities or getting his drivers license…

 

[ShaneFalco]

I still keep thinking back to that scene on all or nothing when Dubas had that little chat with Marner before game 7. Who knows if it was played up for the cameras or whatever, but that really did say everything about Dubas and how he handles players. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body - he's just not cut out for this business.

He wants to keep everyone happy and is way too emotionally attached

 

[Antropovsky]

He built a very bland team.... nothing overly interesting about these guys. Emotionless players... he tries to win too fast. The Barrie trade was wrong, moving Brown was wrong, heck even Marchment for Malgin is looking atrocious in hindsight....Tavares was the wrong choice for captain (wasn't the rumor Dubas wanted Tavares to be captain, but Shanahan preferred Matthews)? Petan fot Lindholm before playoffs was ridiculous.... he passed on Carter Verhaeghe last year because of 300,000 per year difference... Keefe is the wrong coach, the Marlies coach sucks... the teams culture is in shambles, young player development has stalled completely.

He really hasn't done very well...the only thing keeping his head slightly above water is the recent drafts looking good but those can still go south too.

 

[PromisedLand]

As far as I can throw his glasses.

that depends. Are the glasses at the time attached to him or not?

 

[diceman934]

But Prust is an idiot though......

He may be, however he is 100% correct. His glasses are fake.

 

[diceman934]

I have seen this said a few times and every time I ask for link or proof....nothing. Dubas is fair game for criticism but making shit up to slander his reputation or to prove what a bad person he is isn't right.

They are fake.