Disney Star Wars General Discussion

[MadDevil]

The funny thing about the "not my Luke" talk for me is that I enjoyed the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff the most in TLJ. It was mostly the Poe/Finn/Rose stuff that I disliked.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The funny thing about the "not my Luke" talk for me is that I enjoyed the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff the most in TLJ. It was mostly the Poe/Finn/Rose stuff that I disliked.

Agreed, except for Poe. I think he plays a very important part in what I meant with "building expectations" (and letting them off with no satisfying closure). His role as the male-hero-with-an-attitude brings forth a few things we take for granted in this type of narratives, that I think are important to the reflection that is expected from the spectator. His conflict with Vice Admiral Holdo (I had to check that up) is one of my favorite plot points from the film.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

One thing I will be sad about is we never got to see Luke's green light saber in action (the flashback scene doesn't count). Like if Rey found it among Luke's possessions and gave it to Finn or something, that would have been neat.

 

[Tawnos]

You say absolutely nothing about Rian Johnson's vision, you only state the things YOU feel doesn't match the previous films... Anyway, I don't really care debating your understanding of Skywalker's character, I just thought that this appeal to authority was hilarious considering what some pretty important names' feel about the whole saga...

"Can't say I'm enjoying the film — new rubbish dialogue reaches me every other day on wages of pink paper — and none of it makes my character clear or even bearable." - Alec Guiness

"I did think the character itself was relatively thin." "I think he’s certainly a much less interesting character than Indiana Jones. He’s dumb as a stump..." - Harrison Ford about Han Solo

Not something you can debate!

For me, the person whose opinion about a character carries the least weight is the actor who portrays them. The investment they have to put into doing their job makes them totally unreliable critics. I felt this way long before all of these comments from the ST cast came out, about other shows and movies.

Mulling on it for a minute, I think I started to feel that way when it came out that Richard Schiff didn't like what the writers of The West Wing did with his character Toby Ziegler in the show's final season. He said that it was out of character for Toby to do what he did, but to me, it was one of the most in-character things he did in his entire run. Not sure when exactly that opinion of Schiff's came out, but the show's final season was in 2006. I'd guess it was at most within 5 years of that. Seeing other actors say similar things, and disagreeing with them, led me to this conclusion.

 

[MadDevil]

I would imagine a lot of actors have disagreed with how their characters were written. That doesn't necessarily mean they're right.

 

[Osprey]

For me, the person whose opinion about a character carries the least weight is the actor who portrays them. The investment they have to put into doing their job makes them totally unreliable critics. I felt this way long before all of these comments from the ST cast came out, about other shows and movies.

Mulling on it for a minute, I think I started to feel that way when it came out that Richard Schiff didn't like what the writers of The West Wing did with his character Toby Ziegler in the show's final season. He said that it was out of character for Toby to do what he did, but to me, it was one of the most in-character things he did in his entire run. Not sure when exactly that opinion of Schiff's came out, but the show's final season was in 2006. I'd guess it was at most within 5 years of that. Seeing other actors say similar things, and disagreeing with them, led me to this conclusion.

It seems like you're just saying that the person whose opinion about a character carries the most weight for you is... you. I'm not making fun of that because that's the same for all of us, is it not? We all care more about our opinions than other people's, and we care what an actor thinks of his character only until he happens to disagree with what we think of it.

That said, I do think that Luke/Hamill is a special case. It isn't like Obi-Wan/Guinness or Han/Ford who disliked their characters from the beginning. Hamill has loved Luke for 45 years now. He identifies with Luke. He hasn't spent the rest of his career trying to distance himself from the character or the franchise like Guinness and Ford. He knows and loves Luke better than anyone, outside of maybe George Lucas. I don't think that it makes much sense to adopt a blanket policy of valuing or dismissing all actors' opinions. It should depend on the context, IMO, and few actors have known, loved and identified with their characters for as long as Hamill has. For that reason, his opinion of his character carries a lot more weight for me than any other actor's.

 

[Tawnos]

It seems like you're just saying that the person whose opinion about a character carries the most weight for you is... you. I'm not making fun of that because that's the same for all of us, is it not? We all care more about our opinions than other people's, and we care what an actor thinks of his character only until he happens to disagree with what we think of it.

That said, I do think that Luke/Hamill is a special case. It isn't like Obi-Wan/Guinness or Han/Ford who disliked their characters from the beginning. Hamill has loved Luke for 45 years now. He identifies with Luke. He hasn't spent the rest of his career trying to distance himself from the character or the franchise like Guinness and Ford. He knows and loves Luke better than anyone, outside of maybe George Lucas. I don't think that it makes much sense to adopt a blanket policy of valuing or dismissing all actors' opinions. It should depend on the context, IMO, and few actors have known, loved and identified with their characters for as long as Hamill has. For that reason, his opinion of his character carries a lot more weight for me than any other actor's.

See, for me that would mean his opinion carries even less weight. He’s too invested in his interpretation of the character, but he’s not the storyteller.

 

[Osprey]

See, for me that would mean his opinion carries even less weight. He’s too invested in his interpretation of the character, but he’s not the storyteller.

I think that being invested in your character is a good thing. That's what acting is about. I don't see that as a bad thing while invested storytellers is a good thing. Ideally, both should be invested and on the same page, IMO. When they're not, you get a disconnect like with TLJ.

 

[AlanHUK]

For the record, TLJ was not the first movie to introduce light speed tracking, Rogue One was.

A couple other clarifications:

1. It is heavily implied that Luke was prepared to destroy the Jedi texts when Rey landed on the planet (note the robes he is wearing in the first shot are the same as those he wears in the end)
2. Luke didn't leave the map for people to find him. There is nothing in the text that indicates he specifically left that map, unless there is something that I missed. The only thing I know of that indicates Luke left the map is in an excerpt in the visual encyclopedia (I believe that is what it is from, and that isn't necessarily an authoritative source on what is canon).

Regarding light speed tracking, based on canon they found Leia because of a radiation leak on her ship they didn’t track her through hyperspace directly.

1. At the end once Rey ignores him and goes it implies he was going to do it. But he’d had years to do it, and hadn’t. Also Rey was there for at most 24 hours, based on the films timeline which would explain the clothes. This also means Kylo was taken to Snoke healed completed his training and was back out on the front line within about 8 hours of TFA ending.

2. Yeah it was visual dictionary they are considered canon. He was supposedly travelling with lor sen teka, which would be why he had the map piece and not anyone else. Though that’s also poor writing initially on JJs part, but was something that wasn’t explained at all by RJ.

The problem with just binning the complete treatments to parts 2 and 3 of a trilogy is that you have a very disjointed story.

I’d actually be really interested in RJ doing a treatment for the Mandalorian Wars or Jedi Civil War, working with Filoni on the lore aspects.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Regarding light speed tracking, based on canon they found Leia because of a radiation leak on her ship they didn’t track her through hyperspace directly.

In Rogue One Jyn Erson specifically mentioned technology regarding "hyperspace tracking", that is all I am referencing.

1. At the end once Rey ignores him and goes it implies he was going to do it. But he’d had years to do it, and hadn’t. Also Rey was there for at most 24 hours, based on the films timeline which would explain the clothes. This also means Kylo was taken to Snoke healed completed his training and was back out on the front line within about 8 hours of TFA ending.

He had years to do it but didn't, and it is very possible he was hesitant about it up until that point. I think that is a pretty minor issue to have, and one that doesn't specifically need to be explained, in my opinion.

2. Yeah it was visual dictionary they are considered canon. He was supposedly travelling with lor sen teka, which would be why he had the map piece and not anyone else. Though that’s also poor writing initially on JJs part, but was something that wasn’t explained at all by RJ.

The visual dictionary isn't necessarily hard canon, and information included in it can be contradicted in future movies.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Well, I won't defend Rian Johnson because I don't like him either, but TLJ is still the only film of the series using narrative elements to build something more than a gooddies vs baddies. Most of it is about building expectations (in the film itself, but maybe as a reflection of expectations towards the film), and leaving them with no satifying closure, in order to turn a relativist mirror on the series' absolutist discourse.

It's certainly not high art, but it's enough to go over the heads of most of the fans of this type of films. The whole what was done to my Luke?! and this is disrespectful (to my expectations) reactions are highly ironic and only make the film more interesting and pertinent. If anything, Johnson should have gone further because what was pretty obvious (you know, the guy did sell arms to the Rebels too) clearly wasn't enough.

The movie finalized its campy cringiness the moment Snoke died in such a easy and pathetic manner. For being the alleged big bad who drove Luke down the spiral into a cynic and made Kylo a petulant and yet dangerously powerful lost child in the first place...being just a CGI prop to stick a lightsaber in is underwhelming.

There are two parts of the Star Wars storytelling that spawns the wave of fans who "philosophize" about the content matter days on end and happen to obsessively buy merchandise. The effectiveness of the onscreen material and the effectiveness of the "lore" when read on paper. TLJ is a failure on both counts.

In addition, Holdo was presumptuous and well-meaningly self-destructive. Her most suitable fate would have be a private Pyle murder-suicide sequence. The lesson that comes off when purely digesting the contents of the movie is that she represents all the pieces of garbage that can and are manning positions of power, harming the direct subordinates or the populace at large. And while men are grilled for the pain they cause if such abuses are found, a woman can get away with soft words and "diplomacy". In isolation, such a lesson is not a bad lesson at all. However, the intention of Johnson and Lucasfilm behind Holdo's character was not that but rather an "inspiring character of character" for girls to follow.

Futhermore, the ending was a Godfather copy but with another coda to make it even more tedious to watch.

 

[John Price]

The Disney films weren't that bad

- continued the long tradition of droids, brought us BB8

- plot was generally decent

- brought back EMPEROR

That being said I would still rank them below the originals and the prequels.

 

[John Price]

Disney's problems weren't the movies but rather dedicating an hour or so per week to the Mandalorian. But my neutrality towards the Mandolorian is perfectly clear by now. The series just isn't that good. This is from a diehard SW fan.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

And while men are grilled for the pain they cause if such abuses are found, a woman can get away with soft words and "diplomacy".

 

[Shockmaster]

Disney's problems weren't the movies but rather dedicating an hour or so per week to the Mandalorian. But my neutrality towards the Mandolorian is perfectly clear by now. The series just isn't that good. This is from a diehard SW fan.

Care to explain that logic? Because the ratings and critic reviews don't support this opinion.

 

[John Price]

Care to explain that logic? Because the ratings and critic reviews don't support this opinion.

Again I say this as a big SW fan who has seen every movie. The Mandalorian doesn't do it for me.

- the concept has been done before. The writing is boring and stale. Every episode involves a story Mando obviously completes and then moves on to the next mission. There is no originality. An entire episode can be spent on that mission. While the movies also had missions, they were usually completed quicker and with more witty characters.

- There wasn't anyone memorable hanging out with Mando. One of them was recently "cancelled", another is dead.

I'm aware the critics say Mando is what the movies SHOULD have been but I don't agree. I think Mando is bland and boring and slow paced. I'm trying to like it, honestly. I'm trying to get through it but it's just so boring.

 

[Shockmaster]

Again I say this as a big SW fan who has seen every movie. The Mandalorian doesn't do it for me.

- the concept has been done before. The writing is boring and stale. Every episode involves a story Mando obviously completes and then moves on to the next mission. There is no originality. An entire episode can be spent on that mission. While the movies also had missions, they were usually completed quicker and with more witty characters.

- There wasn't anyone memorable hanging out with Mando. One of them was recently "cancelled", another is dead.

I'm aware the critics say Mando is what the movies SHOULD have been but I don't agree. I think Mando is bland and boring and slow paced. I'm trying to like it, honestly. I'm trying to get through it but it's just so boring.

Well a series is always going to be slower-paced than a movie given that the producers have an entire season to build up to something as opposed to only 2 hours and change for a feature film. I do agree the Mandalorian can feel like a video game quest with NPC's giving Din Djarin tasks to complete, but it just hasn't ruined my enjoyment of the show up to this point.

As far as critics saying the sequel trilogy should have been like the Mandalorian, I think they were referring to the fact that the Mandalorian is closer to Lucas's vision and "feel" of Star Wars rather than the pacing.

 

[Jussi]

Star Wars Rumored to Cast Aladdin's Mena Massoud as Ezra Bridger for Ahsoka Series

John Campea brought this up in his show today and he said he's heard that it's very likely as well.

 

[Mightygoose]

Animated series the Bad Batch to premiere May 4 on Disney+

Star Wars: The Bad Batch Will Come to Disney+ on May the 4th | StarWars.com

 

[Jussi]

Disney CEO Reaffirms Kathleen Kennedy Isn't Being Replaced At Lucasfilm

 

[x Tame Impala]

Disney CEO Reaffirms Kathleen Kennedy Isn't Being Replaced At Lucasfilm

Lame.

 

[kingsboy11]

Disney CEO Reaffirms Kathleen Kennedy Isn't Being Replaced At Lucasfilm

 

[Osprey]

Lame.

It's like when a GM gives a vote of confidence to his coach, and we know how those things often play out. It's not even entirely up to him because her contract is up this year. She has to want to re-sign and they have to reach an agreement, otherwise she'll need to be replaced because they can't just leave her position vacant.

 

[Shockmaster]

It's like when a GM gives a vote of confidence to his coach, and we know how those things often play out. It's not even entirely up to him because her contract is up this year. She has to want to re-sign and they have to reach an agreement, otherwise she'll need to be replaced because they can't just leave her position vacant.

Chapek also can't really say anything else. If he took a dump on Kennedy it would have created even more controversy for Disney and Lucasfilm. We'll see what happens when her contract is up later this year. If she leaves, then Chapek's recent comments were just lip service to keep the media and Twitter mob at bay until then. If she stays, that's pretty much it for Star Wars.

 

[Jussi]

Chapek also can't really say anything else. If he took a dump on Kennedy it would have created even more controversy for Disney and Lucasfilm. We'll see what happens when her contract is up later this year. If she leaves, then Chapek's recent comments were just lip service to keep the media and Twitter mob at bay until then. If she stays, that's pretty much it for Star Wars.

Yeah, Mandalorian's dead too because she's involved in that.