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I hope whenever they revamp Galaxy's Edge and put some Mandalorian-themed stuff there that jean's guy makes an appearance in an Imperial base.

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Osprey said:
giantfreakinrobot.com? I don't know. I'm not going to take anything seriously from them until Jussi says whether it's OK.
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Might have jumped a bit to hard when I read it.

After reading more into GFR, I have come to find that a lot of their news seems dubious at best.
 
RobBrown4PM said:
Might have jumped a bit to hard when I read it.

After reading more into GFR, I have come to find that a lot of their news seems dubious at best.
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I was being sarcastic. I'm in favor of posting all rumors, regardless of dubiousness or what the rumor police say.

This one is very similar to one that I posted here last week about each of the series building toward a showdown against Thrawn. It's nice to see many rumors from different sources that back up one another.
 
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I'll be interested to see how much Favreau and Filoni pull from the EU Legends material. If we're getting Thrawn as the main villain of this connected universe, I can't help but wonder if they'll eventually bring in the Yuuzhan Vong.
 
Scandale du Jour said:
Mostly this.

The whole Vong saga was pretty boring.

I did not dislike the Cadeus arc though.
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Eventually the Vong thing became this huge confusing mess, when they started going down all of the caste stuff. Also the ending of it was pretty unsatisfying.

Yeah I liked the slow fall of Cadeus as JAcen went down the path to the dark side at first believing that it was the only way to secure a peaceful galaxy for his kid, then you saw the whole evil thing popping in. Murdering bridge crew, lighting the Wookie world on fire.

He was a way better developed and more interesting character then Kylo who went to the dark side for stuff.

The problem with the whole Cadeus story line was the Karen Traviss Mandalorian porn parts.
 
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RobBrown4PM said:
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Exclusive: Star Wars Is Making Heir To The Empire As A Crossover
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Depends on how you want to look at that but taking from the first paragraph:

Hardcore Star Wars fans know that one of the best Star Wars stories ever told didn’t happen on screen, it happened in the Star Wars novels. Now we’ve learned that story is finally coming to the screen. Lucasfilm is working towards adapting Heir to the Empire.
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That I'm not buying. What I assume they will be doing: taking the character Grand Admiral Thrawn from Heir to the Empire and making him the main antagonist in a movie that features the new Mandalorian-related cast and continues the story of Luke/Han/Leia. What they won't be doing: "adapting Heir to the Empire".

I read those books 25 years ago so a lot of the details will be fuzzy, but what I recall from the larger plot point of the trilogy just doesn't mesh anymore after Lucas made the PT. It goes something like:

  • There is a massive unmanned fleet lost in space left over from the clone war that Thrawn finds and would give him the power to re-establish the empire, but he doesn't have the manpower to run it ( :laugh: at RoS)
  • The "Clone Wars" were about both sides getting out of hand with cloning technology but it all went to hell in a handbasket because creating a clone causes an imbalance in the force causing the clones to inevitably go nuts
  • On some obscure planet there lives a species of lizards or something that 'blocks' the force in a x-meter bubble around them
  • keeping these force-blocking lizards around cloning facilities eliminates the flaw in the process and allow Thrawn to create stable clones to man the lost fleet

They can borrow some elements from those books but if you going to have to veer away from the main plot point and include all these new characters that come from the animated and TV shows it's no longer 'adapting'. Will probably only be adapted in the loosest terms with Thrawn being the leader of the now underdog imperials using his genius to become a real threat to the New Republic.
 
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RandV said:
Depends on how you want to look at that but taking from the first paragraph:



That I'm not buying. What I assume they will be doing: taking the character Grand Admiral Thrawn from Heir to the Empire and making him the main antagonist in a movie that features the new Mandalorian-related cast and continues the story of Luke/Han/Leia. What they won't be doing: "adapting Heir to the Empire".

I read those books 25 years ago so a lot of the details will be fuzzy, but what I recall from the larger plot point of the trilogy just doesn't mesh anymore after Lucas made the PT. It goes something like:

  • There is a massive unmanned fleet lost in space left over from the clone war that Thrawn finds and would give him the power to re-establish the empire, but he doesn't have the manpower to run it ( :laugh: at RoS)
  • The "Clone Wars" were about both sides getting out of hand with cloning technology but it all went to hell in a handbasket because creating a clone causes an imbalance in the force causing the clones to inevitably go nuts
  • On some obscure planet there lives a species of lizards or something that 'blocks' the force in a x-meter bubble around them
  • keeping these force-blocking lizards around cloning facilities eliminates the flaw in the process and allow Thrawn to create stable clones to man the lost fleet

They can borrow some elements from those books but if you going to have to veer away from the main plot point and include all these new characters that come from the animated and TV shows it's no longer 'adapting'. Will probably only be adapted in the loosest terms with Thrawn being the leader of the now underdog imperials using his genius to become a real threat to the New Republic.
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This


  • There is a massive unmanned fleet lost in space left over from the clone war that Thrawn finds and would give him the power to re-establish the empire, but he doesn't have the manpower to run it ( :laugh: at RoS)
  • The "Clone Wars" were about both sides getting out of hand with cloning technology but it all went to hell in a handbasket because creating a clone causes an imbalance in the force causing the clones to inevitably go nuts
  • On some obscure planet there lives a species of lizards or something that 'blocks' the force in a x-meter bubble around them
  • keeping these force-blocking lizards around cloning facilities eliminates the flaw in the process and allow Thrawn to create stable clones to man the lost fleet

Is not quite true-
It is implied in the books that cloning takes several years (prequels confirmed 5-10) years to make a clone. Not very useful in the middle of a war. Thrawn deduced that making a clone, in say, a month, would make the person insane because it created an imbalance in the force. Thrawn also learned of a salamander-like species that repelled the force, due predators on their native world hunting via force sensitive (Thrawn uses both). Thrawn uses those salamanders to block the force enabling him to clone troopers in months, not years, and get them on the battlefield.

That is still canon-see, Episode II.
 
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Richard said:
ThisIs not quite true-
It is implied in the books that cloning takes several years (prequels confirmed 5-10) years to make a clone. Not very useful in the middle of a war. Thrawn deduced that making a clone, in say, a month, would make the person insane because it created an imbalance in the force. Thrawn also learned of a salamander-like species that repelled the force, due predators on their native world hunting via force sensitive (Thrawn uses both). Thrawn uses those salamanders to block the force enabling him to clone troopers in months, not years, and get them on the battlefield.

That is still canon-see, Episode II.
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Total speculation on my part, but after reading this I can't help but wonder if Chapter 12 of the Mandalorian was hinting at this given that we know Favreau and Filoni are pulling material from EU.
 
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Richard said:
This


  • There is a massive unmanned fleet lost in space left over from the clone war that Thrawn finds and would give him the power to re-establish the empire, but he doesn't have the manpower to run it ( :laugh: at RoS)
  • The "Clone Wars" were about both sides getting out of hand with cloning technology but it all went to hell in a handbasket because creating a clone causes an imbalance in the force causing the clones to inevitably go nuts
  • On some obscure planet there lives a species of lizards or something that 'blocks' the force in a x-meter bubble around them
  • keeping these force-blocking lizards around cloning facilities eliminates the flaw in the process and allow Thrawn to create stable clones to man the lost fleet

Is not quite true-
It is implied in the books that cloning takes several years (prequels confirmed 5-10) years to make a clone. Not very useful in the middle of a war. Thrawn deduced that making a clone, in say, a month, would make the person insane because it created an imbalance in the force. Thrawn also learned of a salamander-like species that repelled the force, due predators on their native world hunting via force sensitive (Thrawn uses both). Thrawn uses those salamanders to block the force enabling him to clone troopers in months, not years, and get them on the battlefield.

That is still canon-see, Episode II.
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Well like I said I guess it has been 25 years since I read them :laugh:.

Though... I recall forming this opinion that it wasn't compatible after watching Attack of the Clones, so much closer to when I read it so I'm sure I had good reason to think that. But if they make the cloning/force thing a matter of cloning to adults = bad but cloning to babies then taking the time to raise them = good then they can use it as a plot line inline with the PT. Though it's probably just a coincidence, as I doubt Lucas was thinking about the EU when he made the clone army scenes.

Still though I'm skeptical about an 'adaption' vs just borrowing some broad themes from the book. It's too far gone from my memory but you also have to ask if the 'novel' can even fit will into a 'movie' format, especially when they're going to have all these new elements added in. Doing some digging on good reads, Heir to the Empire is a 434 page paperback. That's not too bad and may be doable, but for comparison "The Star Wars trilogy" which is the entire OT in book form comes to a 480 page paperback.
 
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RandV said:
Well like I said I guess it has been 25 years since I read them :laugh:.

Though... I recall forming this opinion that it wasn't compatible after watching Attack of the Clones, so much closer to when I read it so I'm sure I had good reason to think that. But if they make the cloning/force thing a matter of cloning to adults = bad but cloning to babies then taking the time to raise them = good then they can use it as a plot line inline with the PT. Though it's probably just a coincidence, as I doubt Lucas was thinking about the EU when he made the clone army scenes.

Still though I'm skeptical about an 'adaption' vs just borrowing some broad themes from the book. It's too far gone from my memory but you also have to ask if the 'novel' can even fit will into a 'movie' format, especially when they're going to have all these new elements added in. Doing some digging on good reads, Heir to the Empire is a 434 page paperback. That's not too bad and may be doable, but for comparison "The Star Wars trilogy" which is the entire OT in book form comes to a 480 page paperback.
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Agree with a lot of what you have stated-by way of a further add I believe the biggest problem with the Zahn books is in regard to timeline. Zahn has the clone wars taking place a lot further back in his timeline than actually occurred I believe.

Also, you would be surprised as Lucas used a lot of Zahn's trilogy in his prequels (the freighter that takes Anakin and Padme to Naboo in Episode II is the same ship Talon Karrde pilots.... the Dreadnaughts in Episode III and many more).

I think almost all plot points, which the excepting of the rogue clone Jedi would be doable-however rumors are you have Ezra Bridger for that role now :)
 
Shockmaster said:
I'm not necessarily against a hero having flaws or having some kind of breaking point - but it needs to make sense within the context of the character. It makes no sense for Luke to think about killing his teenage nephew for having some dark thoughts when he was ready to run through a concrete wall to redeem his father who committed unspeakable atrocities across the galaxy for 20 years.
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Again, the whole "Luke thought Vader was redeemable therefore it doesn't make sense to think Kylo isn't" doesn't acknowledge the fact that Luke does go into killing mode with Vader when someone he cares about is threatened, to the point where he chops off his hand in a rage and then regrets his actions and letting his emotions get the best of him (a classic Skywalker trait).

I also would argue "having some dark thoughts" is a severe understatement of what was happening. Here is the quote where Luke describes what he senses in Ben:

"I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become.
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Without actually seeing these visions we can only go based on his testimony, and at this point we have no reason to consider him an unreliable narrator (the scene is framed specifically to be Luke's genuine testimony as compared to his withholding in his first iteration). So based on this Luke clearly saw something that shook him to his core, something so terrible that it unearthed something that he had tried to keep dormant since he attacked his own father. This isn't just "bad dreams", this is much more significant than that, which reveals the nature of Ben's character to Luke, and the unrest that is building within him.

I personally like the idea that as a character Luke is always fighting with his impulsive nature (in the OT Luke shows this many times over), and no matter how much you try to keep it dormant, it can sneak up on you at the worst possible moment. The best comparison I can make is with something like addiction or something like clinical depression. It isn't about being "cured" of these things, it is about learning to live with them and not let them consume you. That is why they are such a burden to live with, and why it is human to sometimes fall back into it.

I am not going to argue that you are wrong for disliking the characterization. But I do think it works with his character and what has been established prior. And I personally really like this nuanced Luke. Where Luke makes mistakes or shows conflict in his character in the OT are some of my favorite parts. I liked that Luke got caught up in the legend of himself as a Jedi, and how that developed hubris in him, just like the hubris of the Jedi order which failed to stop its own destruction when Palpatine came to power. I liked pretty much all of it, and I believe that I have good reasons for liking it.
 
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ArGarBarGar said:
Again, the whole "Luke thought Vader was redeemable therefore it doesn't make sense to think Kylo isn't" doesn't acknowledge the fact that Luke does go into killing mode with Vader when someone he cares about is threatened, to the point where he chops off his hand in a rage and then regrets his actions and letting his emotions get the best of him (a classic Skywalker trait).
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What that doesn't acknowledge is that Kylo didn't make a specific, personal threat to Luke to equal threatening his twin sister to his face. Luke simply pried into his mind and gauged that "he would bring destruction, pain, death and the end of everything I love." That's pretty vague and only his interpretation and characterization of what he sensed. Still, if Kylo had openly said that to his face, maybe it'd make sense for Luke to fly into a rage, but he didn't. Luke simply judged him for a thought crime, as if it were 1984, and was about to perform the execution.

Also, when Luke heard "perhaps she will" and attacked, Vader was armed and able to defend himself, not a defenseless, sleeping boy with his back turned. He did eventually chop off a defenseless Vader's hand, but that wasn't an execution. It was payback for chopping off his own hand and, maybe partly, a tactical move to cripple his enemy. If Luke had tried to kill Kylo because Kylo had already killed one of his loved ones or tried to cripple him by chopping off his lightsaber hand, then it might've been more comparable.
ArGarBarGar said:
I am not going to argue that you are wrong for disliking the characterization. But I do think it works with his character and what has been established prior. And I personally really like this nuanced Luke. Where Luke makes mistakes or shows conflict in his character in the OT are some of my favorite parts. I liked that Luke got caught up in the legend of himself as a Jedi, and how that developed hubris in him, just like the hubris of the Jedi order which failed to stop its own destruction when Palpatine came to power. I liked pretty much all of it, and I believe that I have good reasons for liking it.
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The issue isn't with Luke being "nuanced." Luke was nuanced in the OT, as you partly proved. They could've taken it a little further in TLJ and I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The problem is that they took it too far. Luke in TLJ was almost nothing like he was in the OT. You can point out the few similarities, like letting his emotions get the best of him, but that doesn't make the characterizations similar. Even Mark Hamill, who knows his character better than anyone, disagreed with his portrayal in TLJ. That's not to say that you should, too, but, just as you have good reasons for liking it, there are good reasons for disliking it.
 
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If Luke was giving thought to killing his nephew in his sleep, then there needed to be a lot more background and context going into what brought Luke to that point after we last saw him in ROTJ.
 
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ArGarBarGar said:
Again, the whole "Luke thought Vader was redeemable therefore it doesn't make sense to think Kylo isn't" doesn't acknowledge the fact that Luke does go into killing mode with Vader when someone he cares about is threatened, to the point where he chops off his hand in a rage and then regrets his actions and letting his emotions get the best of him (a classic Skywalker trait).

I also would argue "having some dark thoughts" is a severe understatement of what was happening. Here is the quote where Luke describes what he senses in Ben:



Without actually seeing these visions we can only go based on his testimony, and at this point we have no reason to consider him an unreliable narrator (the scene is framed specifically to be Luke's genuine testimony as compared to his withholding in his first iteration). So based on this Luke clearly saw something that shook him to his core, something so terrible that it unearthed something that he had tried to keep dormant since he attacked his own father. This isn't just "bad dreams", this is much more significant than that, which reveals the nature of Ben's character to Luke, and the unrest that is building within him.

I personally like the idea that as a character Luke is always fighting with his impulsive nature (in the OT Luke shows this many times over), and no matter how much you try to keep it dormant, it can sneak up on you at the worst possible moment. The best comparison I can make is with something like addiction or something like clinical depression. It isn't about being "cured" of these things, it is about learning to live with them and not let them consume you. That is why they are such a burden to live with, and why it is human to sometimes fall back into it.

I am not going to argue that you are wrong for disliking the characterization. But I do think it works with his character and what has been established prior. And I personally really like this nuanced Luke. Where Luke makes mistakes or shows conflict in his character in the OT are some of my favorite parts. I liked that Luke got caught up in the legend of himself as a Jedi, and how that developed hubris in him, just like the hubris of the Jedi order which failed to stop its own destruction when Palpatine came to power. I liked pretty much all of it, and I believe that I have good reasons for liking it.
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I think it's ok to say that you liked both the Luke in TLJ and the Luke in The Mandalorian. But apparently not for some people...

Again, the bold part is inline with the theme of the whole about hubris, failure and what people learn from it/cope with it. I liked that concept. It wasn't perfectly executed but I liked it.
 
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Osprey said:
What that doesn't acknowledge is that Kylo didn't make a specific, personal threat to Luke to equal threatening his twin sister to his face. Luke simply pried into his mind and gauged that "he would bring destruction, pain, death and the end of everything I love." That's pretty vague and only his interpretation and characterization of what he sensed. Still, if Kylo had openly said that to his face, maybe it'd make sense for Luke to fly into a rage, but he didn't. Luke simply judged him for a thought crime, as if it were 1984, and was about to perform the execution.
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I think what it boils down to is we have drastically different understandings of what it means to tap into someone with the force. I really do not think it makes sense to assume that when Luke was tapping into Ben he was simply going through his thoughts. Perhaps that is why there is such a divide, and maybe it would be interesting for a Star Wars move/show to go deeper into that concept. I personally find it fascinating and worthy of exploration going forward.

And yeah, Luke is very different in a lot of ways to the OT. Dealing with the whole Luke/Ben situation (assuming you can think of any reason why Luke may mistakenly send Ben to the dark side) should fundamentally change him. Trauma can change you, and I don't think that in itself is necessarily bad.
 
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ArGarBarGar said:
I think what it boils down to is we have drastically different understandings of what it means to tap into someone with the force. I really do not think it makes sense to assume that when Luke was tapping into Ben he was simply going through his thoughts. Perhaps that is why there is such a divide, and maybe it would be interesting for a Star Wars move/show to go deeper into that concept. I personally find it fascinating and worthy of exploration going forward.
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I almost spoke to that point. If he could see the future, then he would've seen Kylo murder Han and you'd think, then, that he would've sought Han out to warn or protect him, instead of just letting Kylo go. So, I think that it's safe to say that he wasn't able to see into the future, at least with any detail. Without any detail, though, it looks like there was an element of interpretation on Luke's part and he acted on some level of a hunch.

Also, going through someone's thoughts is exactly what the ability was used for in the last movie, I believe. Kylo had Rey strapped to a chair and was probing her thoughts for secrets (which she successfully resisted, to both of their surprise). So, there's a basis for it in the same trilogy, whereas I don't think that there's any basis for a Jedi or Sith being able to tell specifically what someone else will do in the future.

I, personally, don't want to see that explored. Imagine the plot holes. Kylo probing Rey for secrets already opened up one because you then have to wonder why Vader needed the black sphere thingy to get the location of the plans out of Leia when he could've just read her mind. If a Jedi could tell what evil an apprentice would do in the future, you'd think that Obi Wan would've used the ability on Anakin.
 
Osprey said:
I almost spoke to that point. If he could see the future, then he would've seen Kylo murder Han and you'd think, then, that he would've sought Han out to warn or protect him, instead of just letting Kylo go. So, I think that it's safe to say that he wasn't able to see into the future, at least with any detail. Without any detail, though, it looks like there was an element of interpretation on Luke's part and he acted on some level of a hunch.
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I think judging a character for not thinking of an airtight plan within the span of a few seconds isn't the best criticism.

The point of that scene is Luke sees the future then accidentally sets it in motion. I am pretty sure that is a narrative that has been utilized in other works of fiction, before.

Osprey said:
Also, going through someone's thoughts is exactly what the ability was used for in the last movie, I believe. Kylo had Rey strapped to a chair and was probing her thoughts for secrets (which she successfully resisted, to both of their surprise). So, there's a basis for it in the same trilogy, whereas I don't think that there's any basis for a Jedi or Sith being able to tell specifically what someone else will do in the future.
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Let me clarify, I don't think it is JUST thoughts. There is precedent of using the force to detect the future with regards to specific people (the exact thing that leads to Luke going to Cloud City to save his friends), so the force is pretty damn open-ended with regards to what can and cannot be seen. That's what is fun about the force. It is a mystical concept that can allow for users to do interesting things with it. If Luke can see the future through concentration, and can tap into someone's mind through concentration, I do not see why it is farfetched to have him tap into someone's mind to better see what holds in their future.

Osprey said:
I, personally, don't want to see that explored. Imagine the plot holes. Kylo probing Rey for secrets already opened up one because you then have to wonder why Vader needed the black sphere thingy to get the location of the plans out of Leia when he could've just read her mind. If a Jedi could tell what evil an apprentice would do in the future, you'd think that Obi Wan would've used the ability on Anakin.
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I don't see it being that different than other Jedi powers. I'm not saying it should be explained in detail, just delving more into it and using it as an interesting plot device.

Also I am a little confused at the Vader/Leia bit. Vader read Luke's mind to discover that he had a twin sister in ROTJ, so even in the OT that was established.
 
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