Value of: Difference in value between William Nylander and Brett Pesce

[Divine]

Is Nylander interested in going to Winnipeg?

Doesn’t he have a 10 team NTC?

If Carolina can afford Willy, at least it’s a competitive team without locker room
Issues that he might be willing to go to.

Yeah, he has a 10 team NTC. I'm unsure if Winnipeg is on there though. There's still 21 teams he can be traded to freely and Winnipeg might be one of them.

Carolina doesn't make sense unless it's for Slavin. Pesce is not something the Leafs would do for Nylander. Pesce is the D-Man Carolina offers in every proposal. That was what Carolina was offering for Nylander when he was a rookie, now he scored 40 goals and 87 points - why on earth would Toronto do that?

If you ask Carolina who has more value, Svechnikov or Pesce, it'll almost unanimously be Svech. However, Svech is a weaker forward than Nylander today. Leafs aren't trading Nylander for anything less than Slavin. Carolina is not trading Slavin - so the pair doesn't work.

 

[stewy04]

let this topic die, thanks

I don't like either team and it makes sense. I hope it doesn't happen but...

Is Nylander interested in going to Winnipeg?

Doesn’t he have a 10 team NTC?

If Carolina can afford Willy, at least it’s a competitive team without locker room
Issues that he might be willing to go to.

I live in manitoba and I don't want to go to winnipeg lol

 

[George Clooney]

While I think willy ny has a bit more value, i dont think he is what the canes need on offense.

Also, he seems to be chasing money, which is 100% fine, but I dont see dundon paying him 9m+ per , which again, is fine too. Im not saying hes a cheap owner, just he seem to be a hard bargin type of guy.

 

[thefutures]

The other option is Necas. I imagine Jarvis would be easier to handle.

Nylander is an elite offensive player trending upward who is better than anyone on your team. You don't get those guys for nothing.

Pesce is a middle pairing D man. You would have to add to pry away Nylander. Plus you need to create more cap room anyway.

Nylander is better than anyone on carolina? Does that mean the Leafs have 4-5 guys better than anyone on carolina? How does Toronto have such little success compared to the canes? What an awful evaluation, don't think you will be too happy with a Nylander trade.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Yeah, he has a 10 team NTC. I'm unsure if Winnipeg is on there though. There's still 21 teams he can be traded to freely and Winnipeg might be one of them.

Carolina doesn't make sense unless it's for Slavin. Pesce is not something the Leafs would do for Nylander. Pesce is the D-Man Carolina offers in every proposal. That was what Carolina was offering for Nylander when he was a rookie, now he scored 40 goals and 87 points - why on earth would Toronto do that?

If you ask Carolina who has more value, Svechnikov or Pesce, it'll almost unanimously be Svech. However, Svech is a weaker forward than Nylander today. Leafs aren't trading Nylander for anything less than Slavin. Carolina is not trading Slavin - so the pair doesn't work.

Yet the proposals are not started by canes fans

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Comparing a 23 year Svech with 6 years left on his 2nd contract to a 27 year old Nylander with 1 left on his misses the mark.

If Carolina had the choice between an early 2nd contract Pesce, a top pairing RHD at a very friendly number long-term, and Svechnikov, it's a conversation. Premium position (RD) vs. non-premium position (W), but premium style (power forward).

I don't think Carolina has skill to be able to spare what Svechnikov could be. If they had another high skill player, or someone with that potential, screw optics. Pesce's been a great player on his current deal.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Nylander is better than anyone on carolina? Does that mean the Leafs have 4-5 guys better than anyone on carolina? How does Toronto have such little success compared to the canes? What an awful evaluation, don't think you will be too happy with a Nylander trade.

Depth. Leafs lack depth or did lack depth before Bertuzzi and Domi.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't think it's matter of "difference in value", but rather, how both teams "make it work".

From a Leafs standpoint, you have to like what the D-core would like like with Brett Pesce....a theoretically ideal partner for Rielly; leaving Brodie & Klingberg on a 2nd pair, and McCabe-Liljegren on a 3rd with Giordano as a spare. That being said, even with the addition of Domi & Bertuzzi, I don't think you can really afford to lose Nylander outright... you've gotta get something of quality back -- ideally a centre I'd imagine.

As others have mentioned in the thread, Jarvis seems like closest candidate (in a perfect world, you'd probably want somebody on a 2nd bridge deal, making $3-4m) at least from Toronto's standpoint.

From a Canes standpoint, you're getting a guy that is likely to lead your team in scoring next year... but carries the risk of walking next year. Jarvis is a lot to give up for a guy that could walk. Maybe it's a situation where you can do something along the lines of Nylander & Liljegren for Jarvis & Pesce.



With respect to contractual issues, for both players, call me crazy, but I think it would actually be easier for both teams to get a deal done with their "new" players.

Toronto's problem with signing Nylander is that he looks at the contracts of his cohort (Matthews & Marner), how he's delivered close in performance, been relatively underpaid the last 5 years, and saying "me too" / "my turn". In Carolina, that goes away. He has to benchmark himself against the rest of the league / Sebastian Aho.

For Pesce, I suspect it's a situation where he either wants a bigger role, or the Canes are just opposed to departing from that "position of great depth" approach. For Toronto, they probably look at him as the ideal Morgan Rielly partner, and with so few contracts lined up on D beyond this year, a $6.5m deal is pretty digestable.

If this is a round about (long) way of saying Nylander for Jarvis and Pesce, well good luck with that. I'll guess the Canes wouldn't do it and would be loathe to add Jarvis.

I agree though that Nylander is probably seeking payday given what the other parts of the Fab Four have been getting paid on their contracts (plus their new contracts). I'd say the nation should prepare themselves to say goodbye to Nylander.

I doubt if any GM is unaware of Toronto's cap situation and will factor this into their negotiations. You can thank Dubas with that dumb Tavares contract which has set the stage for these downstream problems. Geez, who could have seen that coming.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I’d offer Nylander and Murray for Pesce ( they find away to unload murray ) or Nylander and Niemela for Pesce and Nikishin

You don't think putting Murray in there would be a red flag? Why would the Canes even be remotely interested in him? LOL. The price goes up with Murray involved.

 

[Fatass]

Nylander’s contract demands (imo) reduce his trade value by a lot. He’s not really a play driving winger, and without the puck he offers little. Pesce is a high end right shot D. His contract number will be a lot less.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yeah, he has a 10 team NTC. I'm unsure if Winnipeg is on there though. There's still 21 teams he can be traded to freely and Winnipeg might be one of them.

Carolina doesn't make sense unless it's for Slavin. Pesce is not something the Leafs would do for Nylander. Pesce is the D-Man Carolina offers in every proposal. That was what Carolina was offering for Nylander when he was a rookie, now he scored 40 goals and 87 points - why on earth would Toronto do that?

If you ask Carolina who has more value, Svechnikov or Pesce, it'll almost unanimously be Svech. However, Svech is a weaker forward than Nylander today. Leafs aren't trading Nylander for anything less than Slavin. Carolina is not trading Slavin - so the pair doesn't work.

LOL. Good luck with that. Those blue goggles are fogging your brain as well as your vision.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

You don't think putting Murray in there would be a red flag? Why would the Canes even be remotely interested in him? LOL. The price goes up with Murray involved.

So the canes don’t need to add anything to Pesce…..

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So the canes don’t need to add anything to Pesce…..

Canes didn't need to add in the first place, but Toronto definitely will if they throw Murray into the deal.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

So the canes don’t need to add anything to Pesce…..

Lol... Toronto can deal with their own cap anchor contracts. They can pay someone to take Murray away or, sure attach him to a good asset like Nylander, but Carolina isn't going to be the team to partner with on that. That worked a few years ago buying the Marleau contract and getting a 1st in exchange because we had the cap space. We're close to the cap this year so that isn't happening. Trading Pesce and taking on Nylander and Murray is like an $8m increase. Not happening.

 

[Svechhammer]

Yeah, he has a 10 team NTC. I'm unsure if Winnipeg is on there though. There's still 21 teams he can be traded to freely and Winnipeg might be one of them.

Carolina doesn't make sense unless it's for Slavin. Pesce is not something the Leafs would do for Nylander. Pesce is the D-Man Carolina offers in every proposal. That was what Carolina was offering for Nylander when he was a rookie, now he scored 40 goals and 87 points - why on earth would Toronto do that?

If you ask Carolina who has more value, Svechnikov or Pesce, it'll almost unanimously be Svech. However, Svech is a weaker forward than Nylander today. Leafs aren't trading Nylander for anything less than Slavin. Carolina is not trading Slavin - so the pair doesn't work.

So many absolutely hilarious takes in this thread. Its such a good read.

 

[Svechhammer]

Depth. Leafs lack depth or did lack depth before Bertuzzi and Domi.

The Leafs top end is better, no question, but I'd take our depth, and when you're talking defense and goalie, the Canes skates laps around the Leafs. Everyone in our current top 5 (Slavin, Burns, Orlov, Skjei, and Pesce) would probably be your top defender.

So the canes don’t need to add anything to Pesce…..

We have zero desire to take on your cap dump without a significant overpayment on your end. Last time it cost you a 1st rounder, this time it'll cost you more. We're not here to be your charity givers, you want us to do you a favor, pay up.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

You don't think putting Murray in there would be a red flag? Why would the Canes even be remotely interested in him? LOL. The price goes up with Murray involved.

Canes already have 3 nhl caliber goalies as it is. As a cap team gunning for a championship they’re certainly not looking to take on a 4th in the form of a cap dump. You would think a leafs fan would understand as their team is in a similar position but not that one apparently

 

[Frenzy31]

Depth. Leafs lack depth or did lack depth before Bertuzzi and Domi.

They had a ton of depth last playoffs. Heck, ROR may have been their best player, but yet again the all star team failed to make it out of the first round….

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

about equal, 2 soft overrated players I wouldn't want on my team.

 

[bobc222]

Yeah, he has a 10 team NTC. I'm unsure if Winnipeg is on there though. There's still 21 teams he can be traded to freely and Winnipeg might be one of them.

Carolina doesn't make sense unless it's for Slavin. Pesce is not something the Leafs would do for Nylander. Pesce is the D-Man Carolina offers in every proposal. That was what Carolina was offering for Nylander when he was a rookie, now he scored 40 goals and 87 points - why on earth would Toronto do that?

If you ask Carolina who has more value, Svechnikov or Pesce, it'll almost unanimously be Svech. However, Svech is a weaker forward than Nylander today. Leafs aren't trading Nylander for anything less than Slavin. Carolina is not trading Slavin - so the pair doesn't work.

Just to be extra, crystal clear, if we go back 4-5 years, all those Nylander to Car trades were Leafs fans demanding Pesce. Not Carolina fans. Happy to dredge through the archives with you. When the leafs were having trouble signing him, there were almost new daily threads on the Trade board started by leafs fans trying to get Pesce.

In fact, that time period that you are referring to was so frustrating for Canes fans that Nyalnder-Pesce has become a recurring joke on the Canes board, to this day.

 

[Chan790]

In fact, that time period that you are referring to was so frustrating for Canes fans that Nyalnder-Pesce has become a recurring joke on the Canes board, to this day.

Right up there with the two months they insisted that some insider had told them that we were definitely going to trade them #5OA (Hanifin) + for JVR and it was just a matter of figuring out the plus.

Why does every bad trade proposal where the Canes get bent over seem to start with Leafs fans that then criticize the target of their proposed heist?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

While I think willy ny has a bit more value, i dont think he is what the canes need on offense.

Also, he seems to be chasing money, which is 100% fine, but I dont see dundon paying him 9m+ per , which again, is fine too. Im not saying hes a cheap owner, just he seem to be a hard bargin type of guy.

The Canes don't need a mid 20's 40g scorer with excellent skating and good size?

Nylander would have been Carolina's top offensive player last year - 87 points vs Necas' 71.
Nylander would have been Carolina's top goal scorer last year - 40gs vs Aho's 36.


Toronto was 11th in goals, Carolina 15th, so it's not like one was on a powerhouse and the other a lotto team.

He would also fit like a glove into Carolina's system - great exits and entries, puck posession player, good sticker checker and lots of takeaways.

I think people just don't like the player, for whatever reason. Teams should be salivating over him being available. I think we would regret moving him. Hurricane fans would love this dude, so would Rod.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

They had a ton of depth last playoffs. Heck, ROR may have been their best player, but yet again the all star team failed to make it out of the first round….

Tell me you don't watch the Leafs without telling me.

1. ROR sucked. Dude was slow as hell.

2. The Leafs won a round.

Christ that was a bad post lol.

 

[leafsfan5]

I know the reports are Nylander wants 10, but this is tied to Toronto’s cap structure. It’s been reported that Nylander is willing to take less if Matthews doesn’t gouge our eyes out

If he’s willing to go to Carolina, I’d expect him to lower and get somewhere around 9-9.5 x 8. There isn’t a standard of taking all the money possible there like there is in TO. It’s up to Carolina to determine whether they can live with that price

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I know the reports are Nylander wants 10, but this is tied to Toronto’s cap structure. It’s been reported that Nylander is willing to take less if Matthews doesn’t gouge our eyes out

If he’s willing to go to Carolina, I’d expect him to lower and get somewhere around 9-9.5 x 8. There isn’t a standard of taking all the money possible there like there is in TO. It’s up to Carolina to determine whether they can live with that price

I don't see a world where he demands more than Aho despite production gaps. They would be fun as hell to watch together, similar styles.