Value of: Difference in value between William Nylander and Brett Pesce

[GCK]

1 for 1 without extensions is fair value.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't think it's matter of "difference in value", but rather, how both teams "make it work".

From a Leafs standpoint, you have to like what the D-core would like like with Brett Pesce....a theoretically ideal partner for Rielly; leaving Brodie & Klingberg on a 2nd pair, and McCabe-Liljegren on a 3rd with Giordano as a spare. That being said, even with the addition of Domi & Bertuzzi, I don't think you can really afford to lose Nylander outright... you've gotta get something of quality back -- ideally a centre I'd imagine.

As others have mentioned in the thread, Jarvis seems like closest candidate (in a perfect world, you'd probably want somebody on a 2nd bridge deal, making $3-4m) at least from Toronto's standpoint.

From a Canes standpoint, you're getting a guy that is likely to lead your team in scoring next year... but carries the risk of walking next year. Jarvis is a lot to give up for a guy that could walk. Maybe it's a situation where you can do something along the lines of Nylander & Liljegren for Jarvis & Pesce.



With respect to contractual issues, for both players, call me crazy, but I think it would actually be easier for both teams to get a deal done with their "new" players.

Toronto's problem with signing Nylander is that he looks at the contracts of his cohort (Matthews & Marner), how he's delivered close in performance, been relatively underpaid the last 5 years, and saying "me too" / "my turn". In Carolina, that goes away. He has to benchmark himself against the rest of the league / Sebastian Aho.

For Pesce, I suspect it's a situation where he either wants a bigger role, or the Canes are just opposed to departing from that "position of great depth" approach. For Toronto, they probably look at him as the ideal Morgan Rielly partner, and with so few contracts lined up on D beyond this year, a $6.5m deal is pretty digestable.

 

[La Bamba]

Cap savings is completely irrelevant when making a trade. In most situations. You don’t lose a trade like this just to open up cap space. You get his full value and figure out the rest.

Hmm.. idk if you have been under a rock or something but cap space and savings definitely affects value... significantly. Cap space is one of the most valuable assets

extreme example, what's more valuable, MacKinnon at a 2M cap hit or McDavid at 14M?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I don't think it's matter of "difference in value", but rather, how both teams "make it work".

From a Leafs standpoint, you have to like what the D-core would like like with Brett Pesce....a theoretically ideal partner for Rielly; leaving Brodie & Klingberg on a 2nd pair, and McCabe-Liljegren on a 3rd with Giordano as a spare. That being said, even with the addition of Domi & Bertuzzi, I don't think you can really afford to lose Nylander outright... you've gotta get something of quality back -- ideally a centre I'd imagine.

As others have mentioned in the thread, Jarvis seems like closest candidate (in a perfect world, you'd probably want somebody on a 2nd bridge deal, making $3-4m) at least from Toronto's standpoint.

From a Canes standpoint, you're getting a guy that is likely to lead your team in scoring next year... but carries the risk of walking next year. Jarvis is a lot to give up for a guy that could walk. Maybe it's a situation where you can do something along the lines of Nylander & Liljegren for Jarvis & Pesce.

Jarvis is the most valuable asset in the trade to Carolina, for his contractual outlook. They need his bridge or longer-term 2nd contract moving forward. No chance, imo.

 

[shortfuze]

Hmm.. idk if you have been under a rock or something but cap space and savings definitely affects value... significantly. Cap space is one of the most valuable assets

extreme example, what's more valuable, MacKinnon at a 2M cap hit or McDavid at 14M?

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying you don’t justify not getting full value in a trade because you are opening up 7 million as example to use somewhere else. You don’t just accept a shitty deal because your opening up space.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Wingers are exceptionally overrated on HF.

 

[patriotfan]

Been lots of speculation around these 2 player and it seems like a natural fit if negotiations go south for both players so...

what would the difference in value be between Nylander and Pesce?

never mind pesce i would go nylander for scheifele one for one don't know if willy willing to go to the jets.......

 

[Adam da bomb]

never mind pesce i would go nylander for scheifele one for one don't know if willy willing to go to the jets.......

Jets have enough wingers not enough centres. I’d rather trade Schief for pesce.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

The other option is Necas. I imagine Jarvis would be easier to handle.

Nylander is an elite offensive player trending upward who is better than anyone on your team. You don't get those guys for nothing.

Pesce is a middle pairing D man. You would have to add to pry away Nylander. Plus you need to create more cap room anyway.

Lol, the other option is the Canes don’t trade with you. Pesce + 2nd or get out. We’re fine with either one

 

[patriotfan]

Jets have enough wingers not enough centres. I’d rather trade Schief for pesce.

well i think you would get ripped off for pesce as for willy he is just coming into his own only going to get better and can play centre.....

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Give up more or else face the consequences.

Are the consequences shitty takes from Leafs fans because if that’s the case then I think that horse has left the stable

 

[Adam da bomb]

well i think you would get ripped off for pesce as for willy he is just coming into his own only going to get better and can play centre.....

If he can change positions from playing wing his whole career then you might have a point. I mean I just figured without a top centre the jets d is also weak so try and switch strength from forwards to d.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nylander wasn’t on the top PP unit for much of the season.

So you are suggesting that we should ignore factual data and believe random internet poster @RoadWarrior ? Yeah, I think I will trust real data. I question how much you watch Nylander if you have this simple fact wrong.

 

[hamzarocks]

I think leaf fans are underrating Pesce's value

He himself I'd say is =

Scott Morrow (A-/B+ Prospect) + Canes 2024 1st rounder

I think adding Jack Drury (valued for me around a 2024 3rd) and 2024 2nd is pretty good get.

Meier got similar (shergonovich was similar to Morrow), just with another decent asset in Zetterlund.

I think meier had more teams competing for him and a stronger reputation due to his play style.

Pesce + Drury + 2nd is a very nice deal for us and if we can get Pesce in at 6.5M long term its a great deal.

If Canes were offering futures and could afford Nylander + Pesce long term and the leafs wanted futures I'd for sure do

2024 1st, 2024 2nd, Scott Morrow and Jack Drury for 1 year Nylander.

Getting Pesce instead works for both teams current/future needs

 

[Coffees]

So you are suggesting that we should ignore factual data and believe random internet poster @RoadWarrior ? Yeah, I think I will trust real data. I question how much you watch Nylander if you have this simple fact wrong.

Lol taking shots at Roady now. Surprised.

He’s been around a lot longer than you and I. Let’s show some respect

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lol taking shots at Roady now. Pathetic.

He’s been around a lot longer than you and I. Let’s show some respect

Lol.
1. What shots? I’m posting actual data which refutes his statement. Do you also ignore real data? You think it’s pathetic to show real data that shows his statement is factually incorrect?

2. A lot longer? I’ve been around since 2004 lurking and 2006 posting so he’s been around 2-4 years longer than me.

If you are going to accuse me of being “pathetic”, at least back it up with facts.

 

[Coffees]

Lol.
1. What shots? I’m posting actual data which refutes his statement. Do you also ignore real data? You think it’s pathetic to show real data that shows his statement is factually incorrect?

2. A lot longer? I’ve been around since 2004 lurking and 2006 posting so he’s been around 2-4 years longer than me.

If you are going to accuse me of being “pathetic”, at least back it up with facts.

I apologize for that. I even edited my original statement.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I apologize for that. I even edited my original statement.

The whole discussion is that “Roady” keeps stating that Nylander didn’t play on PP1 and threw in the cliche of “people didn’t watch him”. When in fact,

Per naturalstattrick: Nylanders top linemates on the PP this season:

Marner: 268 minutes
Tavares: 265 minutes
Matthew’s: 250 minutes
Reilly: 178 minutes

Bunting: 82 minutes
Sandin: 51 minutes

So the data disputes his statement. It has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. If you are going to accuse others of not watching him, get your facts straight.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I’d offer Nylander and Murray for Pesce ( they find away to unload murray ) or Nylander and Niemela for Pesce and Nikishin

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I’d offer Nylander and Murray for Pesce ( they find away to unload murray ) or Nylander and Niemela for Pesce and Nikishin

Nope. Murray is a toxic contract (as you stated), it will take a lot to move him. Nikishin isn’t on the table at all as an add on with Pesce to get Willy. It’s a 2nd or Drury or something in that ballpark. That’s it. No Jarvis. No Necas. No Morrow. Not Koochie. No Nikishin.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’d offer Nylander and Murray for Pesce ( they find away to unload murray ) or Nylander and Niemela for Pesce and Nikishin

C’mon man. Murray is a big cap dump and Nikishin is pretty much untouchable.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think leaf fans are underrating Pesce's value

He himself I'd say is =

Scott Morrow (A-/B+ Prospect) + Canes 2024 1st rounder

I think adding Jack Drury (valued for me around a 2024 3rd) and 2024 2nd is pretty good get.

Meier got similar (shergonovich was similar to Morrow), just with another decent asset in Zetterlund.

I think meier had more teams competing for him and a stronger reputation due to his play style.

Pesce + Drury + 2nd is a very nice deal for us and if we can get Pesce in at 6.5M long term its a great deal.

If Canes were offering futures and could afford Nylander + Pesce long term and the leafs wanted futures I'd for sure do

2024 1st, 2024 2nd, Scott Morrow and Jack Drury for 1 year Nylander.

Getting Pesce instead works for both teams current/future needs

This is just absurd..

Comparing Nylander, a UFA, to Meier and RFA, is absurd.


Nylander does not have near that value.

 

[hamzarocks]

This is just absurd..

Comparing Nylander, a UFA, to Meier and RFA, is absurd.


Nylander does not have near that value.

Meier had 1.25 years control

Nylander has 1 year control.

Not much difference.

Nylander would most likely be coming with an extension so his value isnt dependent on his contract status

 

[Breakers]

Meier had 1.25 years control

Nylander has 1 year control.

Not much difference.

Nylander would most likely be coming with an extension so his value isnt dependent on his contract status

Not to mention the qualifying offer he was sitting on at the time of the trade

 

[Adam da bomb]

Meier had 1.25 years control

Nylander has 1 year control.

Not much difference.

Nylander would most likely be coming with an extension so his value isnt dependent on his contract status

Which would probably tell teams a lot more about his worth. Nylander extended 6 years at 8.5 is worth a boatload more assets than Nylander at 9.5 or 10